New blog catalogs Men’s Rights awfulness!
Yep, that’s right, the “clopping” sound of high heels are a form of “street harassment.” I found the screenshot above on a promising new blog you can find at MensRightsActivism.com. Yep, that’s right. Evidently it never occurred to anyone in the Men’s Rights movement to lock down that domain name.
Oh, this little Reddit screenshot is good too:
How exactly does saying “consent is sexy” mean that male consent is taken for granted? How is it that 59 people thought that comment deserved an upvote?
I can’t answer either question, but there’s lots more hilarious and appalling stuff where that came from, mostly from the Men’s Rights subreddit. It’s going in the “antidotes to boobery” blog roll.
Like this:
Posted on July 20, 2012, in announcements, anti-MRA information, awesome, misogyny, MRA, oppressed men, reddit. Bookmark the permalink. 599 Comments.
@Argenti ” that question was about whether you could be forced to perform oral (on a woman).” Yes I think Shadow and I resolved that one
So, rape jokes are “civil”, are they? Writing off the experience of survivors is “civil”? Dismissing people as unimportant because you think they’re mentally ill is “civil”?
“I could have also said guys that couldn’t get laid in a wh*re house with a handful of hundreds.”
You should probably stick with that one considering the implications of using a pardon to “get laid”. And idk if it’s been changed, but you may want to use wh*re instead of the full word, Tom Martin’s love of the word got it added to the spam filter.
Dracula — I think we might be having another one where those of us who say fuck with frequency are considered uncivil, while anything that isn’t swearing is “civil”.
@Argenti; Thanks for the info
I figured as much. And I’m sick to death of it.
Dracula — so the fuck am I. And speaking of Mr. female penguins are wh*res, he just dropped by the Hawaii thread to plug his youtube channel (he’s being surprisingly direct for once actually).
Well I don’t know, he has been swearing himself (granted, it was “shit” rather than “fuck”), so I don’t think it’s that.
Also, circular conversation is definitely circular. I keep thinking maybe this guy is learning, but then he reverts or gets caught up on his own personal experiences (and biases). Just when you thinking you’re gaining some ground, it asplodes…
I really don’t know what to make of him.
Also, i’m getting that page kickback thing when I post too. Is annoying.
@captainbathrobe: I believe you completely. In my long life , I’ve only had 1 wife and a few girlfriends along the way and never been much to look at. So I’ve never had to push a girl away that wanted to give me a blow job. You must be a good looking man that all women desire and to be honest are the envy of us ugly dudes. Too bad there’s not a referral method for you good looking guys to send that blow job over to us ugly guys.
And that’s…totally not the point of what I was saying. I’m actually not terribly attractive and have never been considered so. The incident I described wasn’t about sexiness or attractiveness…it was about manipulation, pure and simple. My ex was trying to seduce me back to her (she had previously broken up with me) because the guy she left me for had broken up with her. I had since moved on, and that was intolerable to her. Appearance really had nothing to do with it.
grampmk: I don’t know quite what to say, at this point, because there is so much wrong in your reply.
I believe you and I apologize for any insensitive remarks I’ve made.
You don’t need to apologise to me for your insensitivity. It’s not been painful for me, personally, to see your denialism; because it’s not at all rare; it is, actually, the norm.
What you need to do, if you are truly sorry, is think about what that means, that you share so widespread, and false, an understanding of what rape is.
I have had different life experiences.
Not helping. This has been your plaintive line of retreat every time the facts come up and smack you in the face. You, and your experience are not the norm. No one is the norm.
And I guess you have the looks the ladies like and my guess is it has mostly served you well, except for the incident you speak of.
This bit, however, is insulting. It’s more insulting than anything else you have said, so far as I am concerned. Looks had nothing to do with it.
I’ll say it again:
Looks had nothing to do with it
It doesn’t matter if I am pretty, or ruggedly handsome, or fucking Adonis on a plate. Looks had nothing to do with it. It was about my not being able to say no. She didn’t like me for my looks. She didn’t push on when I said no becaus I was irresistable. She did it because she wasn’t willing to take no for an answer.
Rape isn’t about sex, it’s about control. She wanted control, and she got it. It could have happened to you. All it takes is someone who doesn’t respect your boundaries, and refuses to get consent.
Shadow: My case wasn’t as bad as that. It wasn’t the healthiest of relationships. I was young, and didn’t have a good idea of what a relationship was like. She was older than I was; at an age where the experience gap put me at a disadvantage.
It was, as with so many things, complicated.
As I said, it wasn’t traumatic. The biggest thing is that it causes odd frictions related to how I look at my consent now; and how I feel when I’m not really in the mood, but want to be.
grampmk: I don’t know quite what to say, at this point, because there is so much wrong in your reply.
I believe you and I apologize for any insensitive remarks I’ve made.
You don’t need to apologise to me for your insensitivity. It’s not been painful for me, personally, to see your denialism; because it’s not at all rare; it is, actually, the norm.
What you need to do, if you are truly sorry, is think about what that means, that you share so widespread, and false, an understanding of what rape is.
I have had different life experiences.
Not helping. This has been your plaintive line of retreat every time the facts come up and smack you in the face. You, and your experience are not the norm. No one is the norm.
And I guess you have the looks the ladies like and my guess is it has mostly served you well, except for the incident you speak of.
This bit, however, is insulting. It’s more insulting than anything else you have said, so far as I am concerned. Looks had nothing to do with it.
I’ll say it again:
Looks had nothing to do with it
It doesn’t matter if I am pretty, or ruggedly handsome, or fucking Adonis on a plate. Looks had nothing to do with it. It was about my not being able to say no. She didn’t like me for my looks. She didn’t push on when I said no becaus I was irresistable. She did it because she wasn’t willing to take no for an answer.
Rape isn’t about sex, it’s about control. She wanted control, and she got it. It could have happened to you. All it takes is someone who does’t respect your boundaries, and refuses to get consent.
Carp… sorry bout the double post.
Argenti: The loss of the whistle actually felt more violative than the sex. As I said to shadow I was younger, and times were different. Date rape was barely on the radar. Spousal rape was still barely acknowledged; even though it had been a defined legal concept for five-ten years.
That someone stole my bag from the employee storage area was incredible, in a way having my partner insist wasn’t. The thing that was bad about it was that it wasn’t a one time thing. If she wanted sex, she was going to insist.
It didn’t last all that long, but longer than it would were it to be happening to me today.
The main reason I don’t talk about it much is that it’s fodder for the more unpleasant people who inhabit the neighborhood to use.
General question — “But I work with and worked with many guys over the years that couldn’t get laid in a women’s prison with a handful of pardons.”
Am I seeing what I think I’m seeing?
I hope not. I’m going to chalk this one up to age, and different social mores. It’s a bad use of humor. It’s a parallel to things like, “someone who can’t pour piss out of a boot with the instructions on the bottom”, or, “can’t find his ass with both hands and a ground guide”.
The idea is that given the conditions it’s impossible to fail, and this person does. It’s just a shitty set of presumptive conditions.
I will say I think grampmk hasn’t been disagreeable.
He’s been desagreeing, but he’s not been, at root, rude. He’s been offensive, but I think it’s what he’s saying, not how. He’s not (I think) trying to hide his nasty thoughts behind “innoffensive” language. He’s not saying we’re deserving of horrid fates.
He’s clueless about the implications of what he says, but that’s substantively different.
From employee storage?! That is incredible — I’ve thankfully usually worked with the sort of geeks who’d ask before raiding my candy stash. I see what you mean about the cultural norms — for all the rape prevention “tips” there are, no one goes around lecturing on how not to get your shit stolen at work.
“The idea is that given the conditions it’s impossible to fail, and this person does. It’s just a shitty set of presumptive conditions.”
Yeah, I’m liking that one about pouring piss out of a boot.
Being thoughtless about one’s incivility is no less rude than being dishonest about it, even if it is less malicious. Intent is not magic and all that.
@captainbathrobe; I’m sorry I misunderstood you. By saying you must be very attractive to the ladies was meant as a compliment. Again, thank you for sharing your story. I’ve learned much from you.
@Shadow; ” I am a fairly promiscuous dude, but I don’t have PIV sex with strangers. In the heat of the moment, some of the women I’ve hooked up with have tried to have PIV sex with me despite my wishes. Had I not been able to throw them off me, the resulting sex would have been rape because I had no desire for it to happen.”
OK not giving your consent to a specific activity is rape. Ok I concede your point. The last week or so all I’ve been reading about consent was from the female point. Thanks for educating me on this point.
@pecunium “I will say I think grampmk hasn’t been disagreeable. He’s been desagreeing, but he’s not been, at root, rude. He’s been offensive, but I think it’s what he’s saying, not how. He’s not (I think) trying to hide his nasty thoughts behind “innoffensive” language. He’s not saying we’re deserving of horrid fates. He’s clueless about the implications of what he says, but that’s substantively different”
Thank you , I think. I have no desire to cause pain to anyone with my opinions. I prefer to be honest with my opinions and not just agree for the purpose of getting along. In the last 3 or 4 days I have learned much and you have opened my eyes to things I never even thought of before. I’ve been conditioned to thinking about rape in the way it has been for many years. that being male on female rape. Before hearing from you and the other 2 gentlemen, the idea of male rape was only thought of in the sense of prison rape. Not to make excuses for myself in this regard, but it is an opinion widely shared by men my age.
So again thanks for telling my your story. You have my admiration.
@pecunium “You don’t need to apologise to me for your insensitivity. It’s not been painful for me, personally, to see your denialism; because it’s not at all rare; it is, actually, the norm. What you need to do, if you are truly sorry, is think about what that means, that you share so widespread, and false, an understanding of what rape is. I have had different life experiences. Not helping. This has been your plaintive line of retreat every time the facts come up and smack you in the face. You, and your experience are not the norm. No one is the norm. And I guess you have the looks the ladies like and my guess is it has mostly served you well, except for the incident you speak of. This bit, however, is insulting. It’s more insulting than anything else you have said, so far as I am concerned. Looks had nothing to do with it. I’ll say it again: Looks had nothing to do with it”
Yes I agree , there is as you say a widespread belief on what rape is. I agree drawing on my own experience is not law. It was never my intention to insult you about your looks, it was to compliment you. Attractive men and women get more attention from the opposite sex, while fat ugly people do not. That was the only point I was trying to make. I believe and agree with you that in your case looks had nothing to do with it.
You and the other 2 gentlemen has changed my mind about male rape. Thanks you.
@captainbathrobe; “And that’s…totally not the point of what I was saying. I’m actually not terribly attractive and have never been considered so. The incident I described wasn’t about sexiness or attractiveness…it was about manipulation, pure and simple. My ex was trying to seduce me back to her (she had previously broken up with me) because the guy she left me for had broken up with her. I had since moved on, and that was intolerable to her. Appearance really had nothing to do with it.”
“it was about manipulation,” I agree with you. Thanks for telling me your story. This most likely happens a lot but my guess is most men keep quiet about it. Your ex sounds like a real bitch. To say you are attractive and a babe magnet was only meant by me as a compliment. Peace.
FWIW, I don’t consider my experience to be rape, just an unwanted advance. Again, if she hadn’t stopped when I asked, that would have been another matter. I just wanted to illustrate that not all men welcome all sexual advances all the time. If she had slogged ahead, as it were, without my consent, then the damaging factor would have been the personal violation in spite of my wishes. Thus, not all blow jobs are created equal.
(Pardon my flippancy, as I really don’t consider rape to be funny. I’m now officially done talking about almost having my penis sucked. You’re welcome.)
“Yes I agree , there is as you say a widespread belief on what rape is. I agree drawing on my own experience is not law. It was never my intention to insult you about your looks, it was to compliment you. Attractive men and women get more attention from the opposite sex, while fat ugly people do not. That was the only point I was trying to make. I believe and agree with you that in your case looks had nothing to do with it.”
You still aren’t getting the reason why we’re all saying looks don’t matter, why pecunium et al didn’t take it as a compliment, and why bringing up looks was sense as one of the more insulting things you’ve said. Whether someone is seen as attractive, or not, does not determine whether someone will rape them. This meme has a pair of related problems -
1) If the person is conventionally attractive, then their rape must’ve been because they’re irresistible. Which both lessens the responsibility of the rapist, and implies that if they were less attractive they wouldn’t have been raped.
2) If the person isn’t conventionally attractive, then this meme leads to “who’d rape you?!” — which is a heaping pile of victim denying bullshit.
Shorter version — “I believe and agree with you that in your case looks had nothing to do with it.” — looks have nothing to do with rape, period.
“was sense”? That should say “was seen”
@Argenti “- looks have nothing to do with rape, period.”
I agree, but attractive men and women attract more members of the opposite sex. So they have more bites at the apple so to speak.
Still. Not. Relevant.
@Grampmk: I prefer to learn things from others,
You say it, but all the evidence here points to people presenting new information to you, or experiences from their lives, and you in TOTAL DENIAL because it’s not what you know/learned/remember.
So, resistance, denial, and presentation of absolutely mind-blowingly wrong/inaccurate/prejudiced commentary on topics you admit you know little to nothing about.
I’d grade your learning (as shown by what you write here) to be pretty damn low on the scale-probably a D-.
Because, man, your posts come across as if you’re thick as a whale sandwich.
And as a 56 year old, I get fucking tired of “oh I”m an old fart, don’t be meant to me” crap.
Sheesh.
@ithiliana; “I prefer to learn things from others, You say it, but all the evidence here points to people presenting new information to you, or experiences from their lives, and you in TOTAL DENIAL because it’s not what you know/learned/remember. So, resistance, denial, and presentation of absolutely mind-blowingly wrong/inaccurate/prejudiced commentary on topics you admit you know little to nothing about. I’d grade your learning (as shown by what you write here) to be pretty damn low on the scale-probably a D-. Because, man, your posts come across as if you’re thick as a whale sandwich. And as a 56 year old, I get fucking tired of “oh I”m an old fart, don’t be meant to me” crap. Sheesh.”
I agree ithiliana, I’m a total piece of shit. A complete waste of space. I shouldn’t have an opinion. I should go along completely with what everyone says and be a good sheeple.
OH POOR GRAMPMK, all he wants to do is deny the experiences of rape victims and blame them for being attractive. Then people tell him that he is denying facts and being prejudiced.
CLEARY THIS IS THE WORST THAT ANYONE HAS EVER BEEN OPPRESSED. BLAMING RAPE VICTIMS WITHOUT CRITICISM IS WHAT SEPARATES HUMANS FROM SHEEP.
…this isn’t Mr. Al being more competent than usual is it? His thing is faux nativity, attempts at GOTCHA questions, and then resorting to “I suck”
Yeah, totally polite and sincere, this one. This is in no way a load of passive-aggressive “poor me” bullshit.
*gives up on even trying to engage with Grampsmk*
Um, Argenti… Naivete? Although nativity is so hilariously wrong that now I’m wondering how a troll would do that. “Sure, women are raped… but what does that have to do with the birth of our lord and savior?” “Okay, yes, men are socialized this way… but what would the wise men say about that?”
@hb
have you met owlslave?
@howardbann1ster:
Men are socialized in what way?
…in the way that the hypothetical arguer is hypothetically arguing with me?
Geez.
@Sharculese: I believe at this time it is customary to insert the lulz here, or at the very least give you your choice of these fine internets you have won today.
Oh, ok, I think I know what you mean, howardban1ster.
howardbann1ster — lol, yes, naivete.