Patriactionary: Women who hit the age of 40 without a husband or kids deserve to be alone and miserable the rest of their lives.

Be careful, ladies, or you too will LOSE DICK FOREVER! Borrowed from Easily Mused. (Click the pic to see more crying chicks.)

Over on Patriactionary, a proudly reactionary and patriarchal Christian blog, the blogger who calls himself electricangel is angry at himself – for not being an even bigger douchebag than he already is.

You see, he’s just heard from his wife that one of her friends isn’t happy about hitting the big 4-0. Apparently, his wife’s friend

broke down in tears, sobbing uncontrollably. What had hit her was the realization that she was 40, with no husband, no children, no prospects of either, and she was staring at a future of loneliness.

His reaction to this news?

I wish I could tell you that an evil smile of vengeance crept across my face, and the children this woman discarded were getting their revenge upon her. That this was payback for riding the cock carousel for years, always aiming at the guys she wanted, not the guys she could get.

But alas, hidden deep inside in his tiny misogynistic heart there remains a tiny fragment of sympathy.

But I cannot tell you anything other than how saddened I was at her tale, and how this sadness will rip out the hearts of so many women who did not set out to become lonely, childless spinsters, but whose families and societies removed the strictures on their behavior so that their own lack of self-control was left unbounded. This will be the ongoing social disaster of coming years.

I did say it was a tiny fragment.

But he still wants to use this woman’s story for his own ends.

In discussing this woman, I am insistent upon her becoming an object lesson to my wife, and especially for my wife to tell the beautiful, smart, virgin young women close to her about what happens to carousel riders. Life is a coin you may spend any way you like, but you may only spend it once. This woman spent it on an amusement park ride. Now the park is closing, she has been thrown off the ride, and faces 45 years of solitude.

Yeah, because no woman over the age of 40 is capable of ever finding a date or a mate.

Yeah, because her sadness at hitting 40 is going to last for the rest of her life.

Oh, and the bit about “the children this woman discarded?” She didn’t “discard” any children. She simply didn’t have any. She’s not “discarding children” any more than those with penises instead of vaginas are “discarding children” each and every time they masturbate to orgasm.

In the comments, not everyone is quite so restrained as electricangel.

“I don’t even know this woman and I’m pissing myself laughing at her,” writes one commenter going by the name Friendzone. “Fuck her.”

Take The Red Pill is equally unsympathetic:

I have NO sympathy for this woman whatsoever. Just like most Modern Women, she bought into the feminist deception with eyes wide open with never a thought about the future. Well the future has arrived and it looks a lot like a cold, lonely one for her – just like the cold, lonely youth and young adulthood that MOST men have had and continue to have.

Karma has come due, and the bicycles have realized that they don’t need fish, either.

When women like her are young, they treat decent men abominably – being as cruel and sadistic as they can be when rejecting an ‘unwanted’ man’s advances – simultaneously, they enjoy being ‘free whores’ for every player, dirtbag, and Alpha thug who crosses their path; then when they reach their thirties and are little more than ugly, repellent, diseased trollops (often with some thug’s illegitimate spawn or two in tow), they complain about ‘the lack of good men’.

Others adopt Electricangel’s more, er, mature approach. Will S. decides to be a pompous dick about it, while patting himself on the back for his enlightened attitude:

Indeed, it is proper to not gloat, but rather mourn what we have lost, as a society, and feel sorry for those who have made poor decisions – and try to help others not make such poor decisions, by pointing to unfortunate examples, that at least others might learn something from them.

Sometimes, schadenfreude is tempting, but we Christians do generally know better than that.

Because patronizingly exploiting someone’s (probably temporary) sadness to make other people feel shitty about their own lives is such a moral thing to do.  Is faux sympathy better than no sympathy at all?

Our friend Sunshinemary jumps on the “let this be a lesson to the rest of you sluts” bandwagon:

We need not mock such women, but we need to hold up their tales as cautionary examples to other young women. The older women themselves cannot face that their lives should serve as an example of what not to do, and they will rationalize it forever.

Electricangel expounds on his plan to use this woman’s apparent misfortune for his own ends:

I am using her as a vector to drop comments to my wife about the dangers of the carousel. Next is the overt suggestion that she talk to some young women about this friend specifically.

Uh, I guess you don’t let your wife read this blog, huh? Because if I discovered that someone close to me was talking about me in such a creepily manipulative and patronizing way, that person would no longer be a part of my life.

Electricangel replies to Sunshinemary:

Yes, those who did not prioritize children will have their genetic tendencies to that behavior removed from the gene pool. Women do not have the sexual options that men do, and not letting them know this early and often is crushing.

But they must be pointed to, and shown as examples. I understand people who will laugh at and mock them; I thought I would. It’s just the enormity of a waste of a life, and the lives she threw away, and the realization that this is just the tip of huge iceberg that has gripped me.

Yes, EA, you’re such a deeply moral person. Posting an “I told you so, you whores!” post on your blog is no doubt exactly the way The Lord would like you to handle this.

In a later comment, he reiterates his plan to use this woman’s story to increase the insecurities of his wife:

I do not feel guilty at all about using this woman’s example to drop pellets of manosphere logic on my wife. It has the side benefit of my wife starting to ask me (because she’s asking herself) “What do I do to bring value to the relatinship?” It is a good thing.

First it was a sad thing, now it’s a “good thing.”

How exactly is this better than gloating? No, scratch that. How is this different than gloating?

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Posted on August 17, 2012, in alpha asshole cock carousel, antifeminism, gloating, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, patriarchy, reactionary bullshit, Uncategorized and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 847 Comments.

  1. I am entitled to act as nasty as the nastiest woman I have ever encountered

    It’s only fair! Fair and equal. And isn’t that what we feminists are about?

    Soldier on, you brave gods of misogyny!

  2. Wondering also seems to not understand the difference between “allowed to say” and “congratulated and celebrated for saying.”

    Of course you’re ALLOWED to say you don’t respect single women! You just SAID IT.

  3. Jumbo – I think the implication was actually that men go to sex workers if they can’t get laid. But she phrased “sex worker” as “a pussy rented from another man” because she wants to show how much she really cares about their plight.

  4. Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III

    I think that there’s also a big element of that ridiculous MRA notion that all men basically agree with them, but are too scared to say so. So if he’s not hearing a lot of agreement for his nonsense, it’s because men AREN’T ALLOWED! to agree, not because they think he’s full of shit.

  5. @cliff
    Ahhh that makes more sense, her comment was a mess so it was hard for me to comprehend what she was talking about.

    Still again she assumes there is no independent sex workers.

  6. GT_GiantTurtle

    Damn it, I’m slow. The theme is now porn, basements and… wallets? In the mean time, it has been made clear that what the Wonderer wants is for everybody to stop feeling bad when life doesn’t go well for a fellow person. Basically, let’s all stop being human. Legit-

  7. And she thinks she’s supporting women by referring to them as pussies.

    I get that it’s supposed to be a “well, that’s what the patriarchy thinks you are” figure of speech, but really, NOT helpful.

  8. Well, that was tedious.

    On the other hand, at least we didn’t have to hear about the eye again.

  9. @hippo
    or the eye *_o

  10. fark I thought you said height nvm

  11. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    So, Wondering has a problem: he thinks all women are some sort of homogenous group busy rating men as alpha or beta or first tier or fifth tier or whatever, rather than being (gasp) individual people with individual likes and dislikes. He also has the problem (no I am not going to mention the Spanish Inquisition, I’m not!) of this obsession with human relations = market economy or some such nonsense. But what I reckon is likely a major contributor to his obviously unwanted celibacy is that he has no sense of humour whatsoever.

    I mean, really – missing every joke, every witticism, every humorous reference (you can know jack shit about gaming and still get the gist of the jokes here) and just churning on in this self-pitying, defensive, offended way … c’mon, who the hell is going to want to date, let alone sleep with, a bloke who carries on like this? Despising women, having no sense of humour and having bizarre notions about totting up how much he ‘spends’ or ‘gains’ in normal human interaction, objecting to the idea of any sort of self-examination … yeah, wow, I can see what fun he’d be to be around.

  12. I can’t tell if that was suppose to imply gay men are just het dudes who can’t get laid or something.

    Roosh wrote an entire blog post based on this premise. I would link to it but I’ve been banned from this IP :D

  13. I am entitled to act as nasty as the nastiest woman I have ever encountered

    I am entitled to slam people’s fingers in doors because someone did it to me when I was five.

    No, not really. You’re an asshole.

  14. @fembot – that was actually Cliff paraphrasing the MRM, not a quote from the trollz.

  15. fembot—

    This one?

    http://www.rooshv.com/american-men-who-choose-homosexuality

    Lordy, what a gem that guy is.

  16. thebionicmommy

    Self-pity? BS, I am all for rutheless competition. But then lets play a game where everyone falls if they lose.

    Ah, I know what you’re talking about–potato sack races.

    Okay, wondering, I need to ask this. What is your point?

    Also, I agree with Cliff that the term “choose my choice feminism” is a crappy insult. I’m tired of it being thrown at women for making the “wrong” choices, even when it makes them happy and doesn’t harm other people. That’s why I’m annoyed at the site feministe, because they use it quite a bit. Oh but when men make those same exact life choices, it’s just fine and dandy. Of all people to hold double standards against women, it shouldn’t be feminists.

  17. [quote]The truth is that you cannot really tell the difference between coerced or rape pornography vs genuine freedom of choice porn from watching porn. A regular watcher of porn has to either ignore the problem or not care about it (or possibly be excited by it) in order to continue using pornography.[/quote]

    This is absurd. To see why, consider an example that is more salient to you. The vast majority of products, whether they be the food you eat or the machinery that goes into the computer that you are currently using, were produced in exploitative conditions. In fact, if one were feeling a bit hyperbolic, you might even say that your computer was produced as a result of slave labour. But just because you use your computer doesn’t mean that you have to either 1) ignore the problem of 5cent an hour labour or 2) not care about 5cent an hour labour, or even [re: *winkwink, everyone who uses porn knows they are a rapist winkwink*] 3) that somehow you fetishize the usage of your computer BECAUSE it is exploitative. It is obviously the case that you can protest unfair working conditions while using the products that are produced by those unfair working conditions. The same applies in the porn case.

  18. Jarrod, I actually kind of disagree with that. I think porn is different than say, meat or shoes or whatever in that you actually do see the suffering happening right there in the final product. I personally have a very hard time consuming most porn for this reason. If I don’t know that it’s 100% exploitation free I feel sick and afraid to watch it. This isn’t to say I agree with the person calling all porn “rape on camera” and all sex workers “pussies rented by men” or whatever weird condescending shit she called them. But I don’t think porn consumption is quite the same as consumption of other things that have been made using slave labor or some form of exploitation where you’re not actually seeing the people in distress.

  19. GT_GiantTurtle

    But there ARE people who watch certain kinds of porn because they fetishize exploitation. Could be pretend exploitation, but they will fetishize and fantasize it’s true.

  20. @Jarrod
    Just because many things are exploitative does not mean its okay or that we should ignore it or take a stand against it. Yes exploitative porn exists but that doesn’t mean you should watch it just because “everything is exploited” anyway.

  21. *not take a stand

  22. Wow. Wonderboy totally polluted the thread, yeah?
    It was hard to get through, but basically I kept hearing, “You will pity me damn you!!! All of you! I just want female companionship!” Then later: “Don’t pity me!!! I wouldn’t want any of you anyway with your used lady bits. I don’t need you!” (If you read between the lines in all of these angry posts, screeds and articles, slut-shaming can be translated to: “If you have more sexual experience than me it might make feel insecure!”)
    Then he made fun that people kept posting responses…but somehow, he can’t just take a hint and stop posting.
    There was the usual binary perception of the universe in regard to human beings. There’s only two kinds men; nerds and handsome football player/actor types (the ones that made his life hell…and we, women, are guilty for fucking these guys, see?). And only two kinds of women; desireable ones, and the ones that he doesn’t see for whatever reason. Except anyone who has even been out in the world, and like, talks to people, knows this is bullshit.
    And the usual resentment that women are sexual, and some actually like dating men they’re attracted to (the bitches!).
    Oh, and he provided pages of proof that that guys who badmouth older single ladies are just rubbing there hands together and saying, “HAHAHA! I shall have my revenge!!!” And I’m especially talking to you, Beverly Marsh, who rejected me in high school!” He wants a woman, but he hates women…blabla blagitty blah.
    And gosh, after reading all that, why would he have problems with the ladies? Maybe because they sense that he truly hates them? Gals and guys don’t like dating people who hate them.
    He also implied he reads a lot of feminist blogs…sadly, he didn’t learn anything.

  23. If he’s not M*A*S*H*RAL then the Internet misogynist community has some serious explaining to do about how completely fucking unoriginal it is. If it is, that guy’s situation does not seem to have improved one bit. I don’t even know what he was talking about with that “40 year old reporter” stuff.

  24. I love how whenever topics like this come up there’s always at least one guy who shows up and argues that women having a right to have preferences is a terrible, awful, destructive thing that oppresses men. And it never occurs to them how hypocritical they’re being, since men’s assumed right to have preferences remains unquestionable.*

    * Which it should be. So should women’s. This shit is really not that complicated.

  25. Was he talking about David? It was hard to tell between all the whine and straw.

  26. Snowy: I agree that this is a disanology between the two cases (disclaimer: I very rarely watch non-illustrated porn for the same reason as you), So maybe it is the case that it is harder to ignore the exploitation in porn while you consume it as opposed to the exploitation in labour. My intention re: the example was mostly to illustrate that it is possible to work against something while still using the product that is produced by the thing you are working against. So perhaps the first point is a little more complicated than I claimed, and you do have to ignore the problem of exploitation WHILE you consume pornography? I am not sure where I stand on that issue, but I think it is clear that just because you consume porn you don’t have to ignore the exploitation in porn ALL THE TIME.

    GT: People watch things like BDSM in order to fetishize certain desires of that sort. This is different from watching vanilla porn and secretly thinking”oh gee, I am secretly getting off on this porn because maybe one of the actors did not consent to this sex”, which was the psychological story in the post I quoted.

    Jumbofish: I am in no way am saying we shouldn’t care about porn exploitation (or labour exploitation–I fancy myself a Marxist!). I have no idea of how you got that from my post.

  27. Oh yeah, gotta love the hypocracy. What they’re not admitting is society taught them that women just want security, they don’t care about chemistry or sexytimes or mutal passions. When we say, “No, not true,” they loose it. If we’re telling the truth, what’s their excuse for not getting all the tail they want?

  28. The “4o year old ‘journalist’” was an attempt to pretend that Dave is some sort of failure/fraud.

  29. Actually that might have been aimed at me, in which case – hi there, Mr Al. Please be aware that nothing here has changed, and the commentariat here still doesn’t like you. How many times does David need to ban you before you go away?

  30. Cassandra… My apologies, I forgot your line of work. Yes, if this is Monsieur AL, that is a distinct possibility.

  31. Wondering: Self-pity? BS, I am all for rutheless competition. But then lets play a game where everyone falls if they lose.

    Bullshit. You are complaining (yes, complaining) that women exercise agency (placing you in the “fifth tier”), and that in the “competitive marketplace” you idealise as being how people interact, you are losing.

    We don’t agree that either is really happening, but more to the point, even those of us who “fell” understand that it’s not as if someone is refusing us food.

    But in the game of, “ruthless competition, you are losing, and it’s pissing you off. Me, I’m “a winner”. I have lovers, past and present. I expect that I will have lovers in the future, should my present lovers and I stop being lovers.

    So yeah, if you think sex/love is a “ruthless competition”, you are losing.

    But that’s because you have confused the ways in which people interact in non-commodity markets with commodity markets.

    Sucks to be you.

  32. @ pecunium

    Could be either, or he could have read something by an older woman journalist that he perceived as “women” (because we’re a monolith) complaining about men being attracted to younger women, and that could be what set him off this time. In any case, reading a bit more of the thread, this is definitely him again. It’s a shame there’s no real way to perma-ban him as long as he keeps posting from fake IPs.

  33. Cassandra, you too? I’m a journalist by trade — print. I’ve worked for newspapers for 12 years.

  34. I am in no way am saying we shouldn’t care about porn exploitation (or labour exploitation–I fancy myself a Marxist!). I have no idea of how you got that from my post.

    Oh ok, you fancy yourself a Marxist? Well that makes everything you said totally fine then.

    It is obviously the case that you can protest unfair working conditions while using the products that are produced by those unfair working conditions. The same applies in the porn case.

    This bit of ridiculousness is probably where he got that from. Dude, you really can’t use your consumption of exploitative porn to fight unfair working conditions so no, I’m really not surprised at all that someone might take that from your comment. Come on now.

  35. Wondering is so oblivious that his observations don’t collapse the wave function.

  36. @ Shiraz

    Yep – Wetherby too. Of course I’m rather underemployed right now, mostly freelancing, which isn’t great in this market. I’d love to find another editorial position so hey, fingers crossed.

    (Notice the lack of wah I am entitled to this thing why is it not being handed to me just because I want it wah society is oppressing me in this comment. If I want a more permanent/better paid position it’s my job to bust my ass finding one.)

  37. “I don’t even know this woman and I’m pissing myself laughing at her,” writes one commenter going by the name Friendzone. “Fuck her.”

    Why is it that when a woman is single for whatever reason, it is deemed mock-worthy? But when a man is single, he gets sympathy and women get hate for not giving the poor, lonely man some action (à la George Sodini)? When a woman is alone, it’s her fault. When a man is alone, it’s women’s fault. Golly, what isn’t women’s fault?

    I can’t help but feel bad for boys like Electricangel, though. They have no character to keep women attracted, so they must keep their wives under strict control lest their wives find out they have better options. Guys, get a personality and you won’t have to worry about losing your women to the “carousel” (whatever that means).

  38. I don’t want to derail too much but I hate the analogy of entitled idiots who complain that people owe them sex being the same as people who want a better paying job. Mostly because, well, nobody owes you sex but society owes you a living.

  39. And I’m especially talking to you, Beverly Marsh, who rejected me in high school!”

    Nice “It” reference, Shiraz.

    Pangea, I can’t feel bad for these guys, they made their filthy beds, let ‘em lie there.

  40. Cassandra: Wow, I didn’t know. I’m in the same position you are, by the way. My paper laid me off (and 40 percent of the editorial staff) Small world. Cheers to you and Wetherby. Nice to know you.
    @Pangea. The online comments sympathizing with George Sodini haunt me till this day.

  41. @hellkell: Thanks! Except these wondering types are nothing like Ben Hanscom, know what I mean?

  42. @Snowy

    Not sure why everything got all aggressive all of a sudden! At any rate, the “I fancy myself a Marxist” comment was not intended, as you seem to think, to “makes everything [I] said
    totally fine”, but rather as evidence to express the sentiment that I do not believe the things that Jumbo attributed to me. That is all!

    As for your other comment, I am extremely confused. In the section you quoted I never said that you can “use your consumption of exploitative porn to fight unfair working conditions”. What I said was that you could fight unfair conditions DESPITE using the products produced by those unfair conditions. Furthermore, even if we assume that Jumbo read the post this way, it doesn’t seem to match at all with what he was claiming in his post. He seemed to be under the impression that I didn’t care about porn exploitation because everything is exploitative, while your reading of my post clearly attributes some sort of caring about exploitation!

  43. Shiraz, I know exactly what you mean.

  44. I trained as a print journalist, and have to say I am glad I wasn’t able to get work out of school (I didn’t get a job because a woman who couldn’t write her way out of a paper bag with a firehose didn’t get the job she thought she was getting: I think the LA Daily News finally got around to reading her clips), because it means I didn’t end up with a career that would probably have evaporated (unless I ended up a compromised shill at some major paper/working in television), and so ended up with a VERY different life than I was lucky enough to lead, and with the horrid probability of being possessed of expenses I couldn’t keep up with.

  45. “Evaporated,” perfectly describes the industry. If publishers would only listen to David Simon. *Sigh*

  46. @ Shiraz

    Behold, the current state of the industry. Isn’t it just great? Honestly I’m grateful for whatever freelance work I can scrounge up, even though it’s not paying nearly enough. A lot of people aren’t even getting that.

    Thirding the creepiness of the Sodini sympathizers. That was a wake-up call for me – I’d had no idea that there were so many guys who really, honestly believe that lack of sex with the women who you want sex with justifies anything up to and including murder. It was not a pleasant revelation.

  47. I never said that you can “use your consumption of exploitative porn to fight unfair working conditions”. What I said was that you could fight unfair conditions DESPITE using the products produced by those unfair conditions.

    because thats so much better *facepalm*

  48. @drst

    Oooops. Sorry about that. :(

    @Tulgey Logger

    Yes that is the Roosh post I was talking about. Thanks.

  49. @Cassandra:
    Yes! About the Sodini apologists. Some guys were posting, “See, you ladies better put out if you know what’s good for you! You don’t want to be shot, do you?” Just unbelieveable. It freaked me out, especially considering that his online journal entries were so hateful…and not just sexist, but racist too. Idiots were saying repeatedly that lack of sex could lead to murder, which is such bullshit. I don’t even think that Sodini asshole was interested in having satisfying sex….based on his own journal, he just wanted to know he could get a young chick to sleep with him.

  50. When I woke up on the morning I turned 40, married for 19 years and with two children, my first thought was: I can’t go on like this.* I just wonder if the wife of the quoted poster ever feels like that.

    I don’t think you can get to 40- or 50-something and not wonder about the roads not taken; there are so freakin’ MANY of them by the time you get here.

    *Within the year I was divorced and back in school, and the kids and I were much happier. Years later, after I’d finally worked through the trauma of that terrible marriage, I even tried it again, and I’m amazed at how nice it is this time around.

  51. PS I used to be a typographer/designer/editor back in the 80s before the Penn Square bank failure added to the rise of personal computing kind of wiped out my whole job. I like what I do now, but sometimes I really miss that work.

  52. The thing that bothers me most about the dudes who turn up here and try to argue that it’s super unfair that women are allowed to choose their sexual partners, it’s real oppression and just as bad as X, Y, and Z, is that I’m not sure that they understand the difference between “some men may never find a sexual partner because of their personality/looks/whatever” and “women deserve to be shot for not putting out”. After reading a lot of comments from a number of different “incel” guys it seems like a lot of them genuinely don’t understand the difference between saying that some people may never find a partner and they may just have to accept that, and saying that people who are picky about who they have sex with deserve to be killed or raped because they’re responsible for the situation of the people in the first group.

  53. @jumble

    I am still unclear as to what you take my claim to be. Assuming you actually understand what I am saying, I would appreciate something other than a horse laugh to make this experience seem worthwhile. It still seems obvious to me. Another clear example: a white person in a racist society can fight racism despite receiving benefits for being white.

  54. Sorry, Jumbo*

  55. Not sure why everything got all aggressive all of a sudden!

    You know, I understand the urge to try to backpeddle when you’ve said something problematic but it’s actually a lot better in the long run to just own it. You’re confused that someone would take from this comment you made:

    It is obviously the case that you can protest unfair working conditions while using the products that are produced by those unfair working conditions. The same applies in the porn case.

    as saying that you can consume porn and use the porn you’re watching to somehow fight exploitation in porn? And then say that no, it doesn’t work that way? I find that very hard to believe. Just look at your comment. Watching porn is not the same as using a computer or wearing clothes that were made using slave labor. How are you supposed to protest exploitative porn by consuming it? That’s like eating a burger and being a vegan, it’s hypocritical. If that’s not what you meant and you want to clarify that’s fine, but don’t pretend that’s a totally unreasonable thing to get out of your comment.

  56. Yeah, Cassandra, exactly. When they don’t seem to know the difference, I really question their mindset. Why would someone so terrible on the inside be getting unlimited offers for sex? He didn’t like women…and lots of other people. He deserved sex? Why exactly?

    Jodioli, eesh, sorry that happened to you but glad you enjoy your current work.

  57. a white person in a racist society can fight racism despite receiving benefits for being white.

    No thats not the same at all. The key difference is you are born with your race and you can’t change that with porn you have the option to watch it or not. Continuing to do something despite knowing that its made from exploited means is a shitty thing to do. I would hate to see what you think of stuff like child pornography.

  58. I am still unclear as to what you take my claim to be. Assuming you actually understand what I am saying

    What are you saying then if I am misunderstanding you?

  59. Just found this gem.

    Don’t come running to me when you are 40 and out of value and expect me to suddenly be willing to accept the humiliation. You chose to spend your 20s and 30s with the people who made my life a living hell. Now stay with them, leave me the f-ck alone and don’t complain that now you know how it is to be told again and again and again that you have you sexual value to anyone.

    I, nearly 40 year old woman, do solemnly swear that I will never complain to Mr Al about having “lost” my “value”. Partly because I don’t believe his underlying premise, partly because I actually believe that everyone has the right to choose their sexual partners and nobody deserves sex with anyone they happen to want, and partly because why on earth would anyone who feels in need of a shoulder to cry on choose that particular shoulder?

    (Maybe he has an aunt who just broke up with someone or something like that.)

  60. @snowy

    I have already explained why your reading of my post is wrong. There is no causal claim in the quoted post, ie I never said that consuming porn would somehow help you fight exploitation in porn. You keep asserting this claim without providing a reason as to why you think this. I am not backpedaling. You have simply failed to understand what I am saying.

  61. This is your point yes?:

    It is obviously the case that you can protest unfair working conditions while using the products that are produced by those unfair working conditions.

    What I said was that you could fight unfair conditions DESPITE using the products produced by those unfair conditions.

    Sure you could use something and be against it but it makes you a hypocrite and does not really strengthen your cause.

  62. @jumbo

    My claim is NOT a moral claim. It is a psychological claim. Perhaps this is the problem you have in understanding my post? I am in no way saying it is GOOD for people to consume porn if they think it is exploitative. I am simply saying it is psychologically POSSIBLE for someone to consume porn while fighting exploitative porn practices. This claim relates to what I was originally responding to, ie the claim that anyone who views porn must not care about porn exploitation.

  63. If so then I am not sure what I am misunderstanding unless you think its okay to be hypocritical in what you believe in.

  64. Jesus, Bravo Cassandra.
    *Sigh* Gotta sign off, too sleepy. Good night everyone.

  65. Ok Jarrod, let me add more context by quoting your entire comment.

    This is absurd. To see why, consider an example that is more salient to you. The vast majority of products, whether they be the food you eat or the machinery that goes into the computer that you are currently using, were produced in exploitative conditions. In fact, if one were feeling a bit hyperbolic, you might even say that your computer was produced as a result of slave labour. But just because you use your computer doesn’t mean that you have to either 1) ignore the problem of 5cent an hour labour or 2) not care about 5cent an hour labour, or even [re: *winkwink, everyone who uses porn knows they are a rapist winkwink*] 3) that somehow you fetishize the usage of your computer BECAUSE it is exploitative. It is obviously the case that you can protest unfair working conditions while using the products that are produced by those unfair working conditions. The same applies in the porn case.

    How am I failing to understand, exactly? Your argument about all these other things (food, machinery, etc) is that even though they might have been produced using slave labor or exploitation they can be consumed and at the same time used to fight the conditions they were made under. Porn is clearly very different, and yet you say it’s the same. If this is not what you meant and you simply misspoke that’s fine, but don’t pretend like someone failing to read your mind is the problem here.

  66. I’m not an MRA, but I’m definitely anti-feminist. I just have an honest question for the feminists here, or David if he’s reading this.

    Assuming that this women spent her youth sleeping around, wouldn’t she have been better off using her 20s to find a good, strong but stable man to settle down with?

    Sure, the guy on the blog is making insensitive comments, but doesn’t that sidestep the problem that this woman, and according to places like Jezebel and so on many other women, face in their 30s and 40s?

    Would you guys admit that women (and men) are better off not just having massive amounts of casual sex, living narcissistically (that is, for their enjoyment and exploration of themselves exclusively) and settling down and living for and with another person?

    Just curious, because this seems to me to be one of the greatest problems caused by the “free love” and “sex positive” movements: they sound great on the surface, until people realize that their hedonistic lifestyle left them completely unable to cope with living with another person and they’re sad and alone.

    Sad and alone is the necessary end result of narcissistic self-indulgence anyway. Obviously I’m not mocking this women, it really is sad that she’s going through this. So why not encourage men and women to stop setting themselves up for failure?

  67. @Jumbo

    I am not sure what your misunderstanding is anymore, because I am not sure what exactly you think my post is saying anymore! What you keep doing here is putting moral language like “okay to do” or “that would be a shitty thing to do”, which my post is not concerned with. My original post was simply supposed to point out that a person can watch porn and be against exploitative porn at the same time. Whether or not this is hypocritical is beyond the scope of the claim.

  68. @snowy

    There is no causal claim in the labour case either. Nowhere did I saying ANYTHING like “BECAUSE a person has access to a computer, they will be better able to fight slave labour practices”, this is just you reading far too much into the content of my claim. I think it is pretty clear in my post that what you use the computer for has nothing to do with being able to fight poor labour practices.

  69. Well I still have a hard time seeing that as your intention since the person you quoted was not really talking about if it was possible to be a hypocrite in what you do and say. Most people already know you can do one thing and yet be against it so there is no need for you to bring it up.

    The truth is that you cannot really tell the difference between coerced or rape pornography vs genuine freedom of choice porn from watching porn. A regular watcher of porn has to either ignore the problem or not care about it

    Its obvious by “not caring” they are referring to they know about the issue yet choose to ignore it to watch porn. They are not saying its impossible for someone to watch exploitative porn yet still claim they are against it.

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