Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c): It’s “a disaster to say ‘never hit women’…..it destroys the womans ability to bond closely with the man via a good spanking.” [UPDATED WITH NOLAN RESPONSE]

Some misogynists seem to have a really difficult time telling the difference between consensual kinkiness and domestic violence. Over on the Happier Abroad forums, our old friend Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c) – who doesn’t really seem to be all that happy, honestly – tells the fellows about a woman he recently met. (Note: the faux ellipses in the quotes to follow are all from the original.)

I am now able to look a woman in the eyes, even from some distance, and know if she is a decent woman or not. I only developed this two years or so ago and have only had it happen 4 times. I am not saying that it is ONLY these women who are decent women….I am saying that the 4 this has happened to turned out to be pretty good women…

By a “pretty good woman” he seems to mean a woman who hates women nearly as much as he does:

when asking about my view of women I have been absolutely straightforward and to the point….her response “AT LAST…..a man who really knows what we are like….that makes me feel so much better because I do not have to worry about trying to present myself as I am not…..you already really know what we are like!”

She is HAPPY that I describe women as mostly liars and manipulators who try to get men to do what they want…..it is a RELIEF for her to meet such a man…..how about that?

And, even better, she likes to be spanked!

she openly says that she felt that if we were together with her strong personality she would be likely to provoke me and try to hurt me emotionally…..to which I replied “if you are naughty I will put you over my knee and spank you”..to which she replied “and I shall be naughty to make sure I am spanked”.

I was telling this new lady I met about this and how I had spanked my daughter when she was willful and naughty as well as my fav#1……she almost SWOONED at the idea of being spanked for being naughty….It was as clear as day she was very interested in getting herself spanked for being naughty…..I noticed this and pointed it out….she tried to deny it.

Uh, if she just told you she wanted to “be naughty to make sure” she’d be spanked, why would she deny this a minute later?

Somehow I suspect that this conversation didn’t transpire exactly as Mr. Nolan says it did.

In any case, our intrepid storyteller moves on to elaborate on his perverse (and not in a good way) sexualized defense of child abuse:

I said to her “it is completely normal for a girl to want to provoke her father into needing to spank her, once he does she knows he is big and strong and will protect her and provide for her….she feel more comfortable, more secure, and she will often cuddle up to her father and feel very good towards him after being spanked….my daughter did that all the time…..I bet you did that with your father too…..

And then on to a defense of violence against women:

This need does not go away just because the girl becomes a woman…..she still needs to provoke her man and he still needs to spank her so that she feels he is strong and powerful and can protect and provide for her……that is how women are.

Apparently men can’t truly “bond” with women without hitting them:

This is why it is such a disaster to say “never hit women”…..it destroys the womans ability to bond closely with the man via a good spanking. It destroys her ability to feel the security of protector and provider….something she needs…indeed….it is so insane now they call that “domestic violence” and the man can go to jail for doing what the woman needs to be done for her.”

She just shook her head and said “you are so right”……I am wondering if we will see much more of each other.

I certainly hope not.

Happily, there’s every reason to believe that this conversation is a product of Nolan’s imagination; he seems to live in a world all his own.

NOTE: Thanks to Sandra in the comments for pointing me to this horrible comment.

EDITED TO ADD: Mr. Nolan (c) has responded in the comments here, and over on Happier Abroad in more detail. Apparently I totally misrepresented him because I wasn’t able to figure out from his badly written comment that he was talking about two different women who loved being spanked. Also, because I mentioned his name with the weird punctuation , he thinks I am “subject to the fee of 1,000 troy ounces of 99.9% pure gold should I choose to levy it.” (You see, Mr. Nolan (c) has set up his own international court system in his own head, in which mentioning his name with that little copyright symbol attached to it apparently means that you owe him lots of gold.)  I haven’t read all of his comments; I’m afraid I’ll end up owing him even more gold if I do.

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Posted on August 31, 2012, in antifeminism, antifeminst women, crackpottery, men who should not ever be with women ever, MRA, reactionary bullshit, sex, violence, western women suck and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 343 Comments.

  1. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    Ah yes, “only if you wanted to be promoted.” Does the Pancake Parlour chain operate in the US? It’s out here and it’s owned by the Scientologists – and if anyone wants promotion past being a waiter, yup, it’s time to learn all about Xenu and Thetans and the rest.

    I”ve heard the term est and never known what it was. I see the Sceptic’s Dictionary isn’t too keen on Landmark (no surprise there).

    http://www.skepdic.com/landmark.html

  2. Here’s another account from a former participant. There are multiple cases of people suffering psychotic breaks either during or soon after Landmark training.

    http://www.rickross.com/reference/landmark/landmark26.html

    Rick Ross’s site has multiple first person accounts.

    I know I probably seem like I’m picking on the newbie, but for serious, folks – please be very wary of this organization.

    @kittyservant

    Here we have Cafe Gratitude, which is heavily associated with Landmark (employees required to take courses), and they’ve been sued multiple times. Only once did I ever go to a Cafe Gratitude, not knowing they were Landmark affiliated before I got there, but I realized as soon as the server started talking to us. You can find lots of stuff about Cafe Gratitude (would you like an a bit of self-doubt and cult recruitment wrapped in an affirmation with your coffee?) via Google. I think they have a lock-down on the MLM cult recruitment via business market in the Bay Area, since I’ve only seen Scientologists a few times (last time I called the BART main office and reported them for setting up their recruiting table in the Berkeley station, right at the time where all the freshmen arrive to start at UC).

  3. That HuffPo article seems pretty fair, actually. Though the journalist comes off like an asshole with her idea that she’s the only person there asking questions or thinking critically– when I went, having read the “cult” claims, I was asking a lot of questions and sharing a lot of doubts with the other participants and they were right there with me, so I think this woman must have been seriously getting people’s backs up to get shut down like she did.

    Thanks for the explanation about your friends. It’s definitely not for everyone, though it’s not a cult in any meaningful sense of the word (it doesn’t take your money, cut you off from people in your life or have negative consequences if you walk away– outside the situation in your workplace, where the coercion adds a genuinely horrible dimension to things.)

  4. The Rick Ross article, OTOH, seems like utter bullshit. Millions of people have done the Landmark Forum so I suppose it’s statistically inevitable some of those have serious breakdowns shortly after, but a “skeptic” should know better than to assume causation.

  5. (Shrugs)

    You can dismiss all the accounts of people who experienced psychotic episodes after participating in the Forum if you like, but there are a whole lot of them. There’s a reason that they’re on the official cult watchlists for a number of different countries.

  6. Another fun quote from a Landmark devotee!

    “People seem to get so angry about this idea of this course because it is confronting. It surely is confronting and it is 3 days of very hard work. People who say they walked out at lunch time… simply were too confronted. They are probably the types of people who walk out on other things that confront them (relationships, jobs, etc… I’d guarantee that). ”

    If you didn’t experience the results that were promised, it’s obviously because something was wrong with you. It just proves that you weren’t up to it, not that anything could possibly be wrong with the program itself! A perfect circular argument.

    This is another reason why it’s perceived as a cult.

    http://www.fasterlouder.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=3979

  7. Also, we have a Panic sighting on this page, about 3/4 of the way down. This is clearly from before he decided to trademark himself for fun and profit.

    http://www.skepdic.com/comments/estcom3.html

  8. Eh, it’s not a question of dismissing the people, obviously. Just of dismissing the fallacious reasoning process that assumes their breakdowns wouldn’t have happened anyway. The logic doesn’t remotely hold up when you analyse it.

    But you seem to have a lot of thoughts on this subject, and I don’t particularly want an argument; I originally just wanted to share what I understood of the context of the letter, and to correct the “abusive brainwashing” melodrama.

    I’ll link to one more article I read about it that also struck me as being fair when I read it, and people can do their own research if anyone but us gives a crap.

    http://m.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/dec/14/ameliahill.theobserver?cat=uk&type=article

  9. Yeah, the more I read about Landmark the more I get skeeved out by it. I just don’t buy that convincing people who have suffered abuse that it’s their own fault, in an extremely high-stress environment, “doesn’t look like victim-blaming in practice at all”. How could it not, really? How can you define victim-blaming, if not as telling the victim that they are responsible for their victimization?

    I also can’t go back and read that letter and accept both that it is representative of the Landmark Forum and that Landmark is great and there’s nothing problematic about it at all. I mean, that letter, taken as true, is really alarming, especially given what we know about PA:N(C). I can’t see something that fosters that kind of thinking as being positive.

  10. The thing is, what The Forum does is potentially very dangerous. It doesn’t produce really negative results in everyone, some people come out OK (annoying to those who have to listen to their sales pitches, but otherwise OK), but for the people who it does hurt them it really really hurts them. And I just don’t buy the idea that there are bound to be a few psychotic breaks any time you have X number of people doing something as being a good excuse, because the thing about self-help seminars is that, no matter what disclaimers they make you sign, by their very nature they tend to attract a lot of people who’re already psychologically vulnerable, and the organizers know that. And if you put that much pressure on people who’re already in a vulnerable state, and some of them snap, I think the organization that put them under that pressure is responsible for what happens to those people, even if they did sign up willingly.

    Obviously when it’s a situation like my at former employers it’s exponentially worse, because if people do those forums with their bosses then it gives the bosses a lot of really personal, emotionally painful information about their underlings, and when you combine that with a culture that encourages people being confrontational with each other, well, you can see how that doesn’t work out very well. I’m still amazed that HR allowed that to happen.

    On the victim-blaming stuff, yeah, that’s a big part of my problem with it too. If you look at the letter from Panic’s wife, there’s just nothing healthy about what she was encouraged to do, and that situation could have ended even more badly than it has. And when people like Panic do it it seems to feed their egomania in really alarming ways. I think the Landmark training is partially responsible for how delusional he is in approaching his court cases, for example.

    I can totally understand how people get drawn into this stuff, and why they’re so evangelical about it afterwards. The program is designed to make people who do it evangelical – it’s not their fault, it’s how the system is designed to work. A lot of self-help stuff produces basically no effect at all, so it’s a waste of money but essentially harmless otherwise, but this particular group can actually be really dangerous to some people, which is why I felt like I needed to counteract the no-honestly-it’s-awesome stuff.

  11. I jjust don’t buy that convincing people who have suffered abuse that it’s their own fault, in an extremely high-stress environment, “doesn’t look like victim-blaming in practice at all”. How could it not, really?

    Since you’re quoting me… Because blame and responsibility are not the same thing. And taking responsibility for the actions of another person (victim blaming) is never on the cards. Responsibility for our interpretations of other people is the issue, and by looking at that on a really deep unconscious level people can often find a different way to interpret their experience that doesn’t have negative effects on their present life. Thst’s as best I can explain it. It’s not something that happens on the level of analytical thinking.

    As for the letter… she obviously wanted to save her marriage, so she was trying to find ways to take responsibility. I guess three days wasn’t enough for her to see she needed to leave, but she did within a few months.

    I went through a similar process with an ex, actually, who wasn’t abusive and terrible like PANIC but was wrong for me. I tried many times to take responsibility for my failures in communication that were making it not work then it just clicked for me that what I really needed to take responsibility for was staying in a relationship that I didn’t enjoy any more.

    Anyway, hope that answers it for you as it’s getting uncomfortable to talk about.. I’m not sure I can explain it better than this, anyway.

  12. Also has panic actually done the training? I get the impression he hasn’t.

  13. More links. It’s the mental health disclaimers that are particularly interesting to me.

    http://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/2011/06/08/the-landmark-forum-disclaimer-to-be-read-by-all-participants/

  14. This one’s interesting too. I wonder if Ithiliana has access to the American Journal of Psychiatry archives?

    http://www.cultnews.com/archives/000781.html

  15. Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c)

    Wow….that sure is a lot of comments. 294 comments..most made by brainless morons…and most trying to refute what eastern european women have said to me.

    Why do you western people hate eastern european women so much as to deny their agency and deny they have a right to live their life as they please?

    Why do you hate them so much that you want to impose your hate filled world view on to them?

    I have seen this new woman once since this article was published and we got along quite well…she is really nice.

    As for lies like this.

    “You see, Mr. Nolan (c) has set up his own international court system in his own head, in which mentioning his name with that little copyright symbol attached to it apparently means that you owe him lots of gold.”

    The Mens Business Association will have its own courts because the current legal system is a satanic criminal cartel. If mangina manboobz is not willing to tell you this “news” then don’t be blaming me. I have sent a letter out to more than 800 sitting politicians including all members of the US senate and congress denouncing the current legal system as a criminal cartel. Mangina manboobz obviously used my copyrighted name and the copy right is held under uniform commercial code.

    Mangina manboobz would have to argue he does not know what they copyright symbol meant….and I do not think that argument would be believe by any member of a 12 man jury.

    I see mangina manboobz has also been kicked off reddit for his dishonesty. One thing about dishonest men…once identified as dishonest anyone who listens to them deserves everything they get….and in mangina manboobz case you just get lies.

    Comfortable lies but lies no less.

  16. There is a LOT going on in that head of yours.

    Also, I’ve been unbanned from Reddit.

  17. Wait lemme get this straight, Mr. Peter-Andrew:Nolan(c):

    You’re going to sue David

    under the copyright code of literally a TOTALLY DIFFERENT COURT SYSTEM

    which will replace our existing, evil, one

    which you will install, somehow, as a result of sending out 900 letters to people who almost certainly have no idea who the eff you are

    And then, when you have literally overthrown the court system

    You will try David, and somehow the defense of “This wasn’t illegal in the court system that existed before Spanky’s revolution” will not be seen as reasonable under the scrutiny of 12 of his peers

    And then he’ll have to pay you a thousand troy ounces of gold.

    and you don’t think this plan of yours sounds at all unrealistic?

    You, sir, are truly an idea man.

  18. Yo, Petey,

    Technically David didn’t even say your name. Your name is Peter-Andrew: Nolan©, wheras David wrote Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c). Hell, even your username is wrong. You probably aren’t even the real Peter Nolan. :P Feel free to send me a bill, though.

    I have sent a letter out to more than 800 sitting politicians including all members of the US senate and congress denouncing the current legal system as a criminal cartel.

    Yeah, I’d really hate to live in a world where sending a letter means anything at all. Good thing we don’t live in such a world. I could spam every senator in the US with a script and it wouldn’t mean a god-dang thing.

    (By the way, I remember watching your video of you “in” court. That was… spectacularly special. Funny enough, the judge has probably had to sit through much worse bull than you. He was completely unfazed.)

  19. Also, there’s this (back to the name thing)

    How do I copyright a name, title, slogan, or logo?

    Copyright does not protect names, titles, slogans, or short phrases. In some cases, these things may be protected as trademarks. Contact the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office, 800-786-9199, for further information. However, copyright protection may be available for logo artwork that contains sufficient authorship. In some circumstances, an artistic logo may also be protected as a trademark.

    source

    So in actual fact you cannot copywrite a name, (since it’s too short). You could add a ™ to your name, but it wouldn’t mean jack unless you actually got it registered. And knowing you, you wouldn’t ever actually go through the effort of beurocracy unless you could pretend it happens automatically.

  20. Did PAN leave? Because if not, I was hoping he’d tell us about the time he stared down a pack of vicious, snarling dogs.

  21. @cloudiah:

    If he doesn’t come back or respond, the default situation will be that I handed his butt to him in legal-fu. I think that’s how things work in his universe… you get to arbitrarily decide what rules people who ignore you have to play by.

  22. naw kirbywarp see he’s immune to your legal-fu because this whole thing where he brings lawsuits against people is after he overthrows the existing court system and installs a new one where copyright works the way he wants it to.

  23. I’m kind of excited about this idea of establishing your own court system and then sending letters out to Senators and other politicians informing them that their courts lack jurisdiction cuz I and my courts decided, and we are the deciders.
    Feminism gets wind of this and the abuser lobby, rapists, and batterers are gonna be in the deep yoghurt.

  24. @inurashii:

    … huh. I’d love to see how that works. Maybe Petey thinks that if he just brings his A++ game to the supreme court, they’ll just bow out.

    “You know, now that you mention it, Peter, we are kind of a satanic cartel, aren’t we? Heh heh, wow. Criminal, even! You got us, good job. I guess we should dismantle our entire system and put you in charge now. Alright everyone, pack it up!”

    Because even a satanic criminal cartel will obey imaginary laws with no enforcement, stepping down from their position of power.

  25. To the ASIO agents here:

    Peter Nolan has decided to leave Happier Abroad and stop posting there. See announcement here:
    http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=98273#98273

    Now will you guys please stop spam attacking our forum?

    Thanks.

  26. He’s gone back to his own festering turd of a site and requested that his “men” there come over here and bully you on his behalf because he’s too much of a coward to stand up to logic himself. Won’t happen though because he has no actual members on his site – well not ones that aren’t under lights out orders at the local psyche ward facility. He’ll probably come back pretending to be someone else. Lonesome loser loopy Pete.

    And speaking of being banned from sites, old loop’s been banned from every MRA site in the land – including the charming Spearhead site. Even they find him distasteful and insane. The only site that puts up with him now is Winny Wu’s Happier Abroad site. This is purely because Winny Wu gets money out of the old loop. Poor old lonely easily extortable loopy Pete.

  27. well not ones that aren’t under lights out orders at the local psyche ward facility

    Mental illness does not cause misogyny.

  28. I tried to post this on Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c)’s latest youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkiAjCgs96c but he only allows for comments that he “approves” of so… Maybe this will be of use to you.

    ========================================================================
    I sure that saying the following will probably get me labeled as a “Mangina” or whatever else MRA’s call people they don’t like but whatever I’m going to say it anyway. Heck, I’ll admit that I’m an egalitarian who see’s probablems on both sides of the gender war. But please don’t glaze over me yet! Read on (if this message hasn’t been removed.)

    a) The Hobbs Act defines “extortion” as “the obtaining of property from another, with his consent, induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right.” 18 U.S.C. S 1951(b)(2).

    Since child support laws are in effect (i.e. they exist and are currently in force), the judge can mandate that you pay child support or through you in jail because it isn’t considered wrongful by the people whom uphold child support laws, and it is the judge’s offical right *and duty*.

    Which dissmisses your “summary justice” defence. At least as far as Judge is legally conserned.

    b) Issuing a death threat is still a crime just the same, judge or not, and your sentence can be legthened for it. Not only that, but by issuing a death threat, you give law enforcment officals reason to invade your privacy and actively watch and track you.

    On top of that, if you actually do get sent to jail for not paying child support, and go through with your threat, the new judge who precides over the case (your very likely to be caught since the authorities now have motive, and probably means since you would be tracked after your release.), would probably throw you in jail for life. Or order that you be put to death if the person is still a judge (and therefore a law enforcement official) after your release (in some states).

    If your lucky. If not, you could be thrown in an asylum and held there indefinatly for this behaviour.

    c) Most people don’t really care or give a shit if you call them a “gutless coward”. I’ve been called much worse myself. I honestly don’t see why you would even complain about being vilified by the MRM if your really this unstoppable badass anyway. Seems kind of petty to me.

    d) You’ll get them out later down the line if they go to jail for this “remedy”? You’ve been at this for 5 years. What exactly do you think you’ll do to get those people out of jail after issuing death threats and attacking people?

    And before you give me all kinds of shit for saying this stuff, I get it okay.

    I understand that being in a situation where a person whom you loved and respected betrays like this is pretty shitty. I get that having money you’ve worked for, and property that you’ve worked for, and children that you love all get taken away from you is horrible.

    I understand after all of that, you probably feel like you have nothing left to lose.

    But understand that this “remedy” that this psychopath has offered you will only serve to give your state the legal right to suppress you.
    ========================================================================

    I’m sorry that I’m not posting my real name, but I don’t actually want to be tracked down for posting this so I’ll just sign it with my pseudonym.

    Labtop_215

  29. I don’t think you understood what the Nolan guy was actually saying. What he was describing is known in Psychology as Repetition Compulsion. Basically, when a person is traumatised, they tend to attempt to re-live their trauma by placing themselves in situations where it is likely to re-occur. So, a woman who was beaten as a child is likely to find a partner who also beats her in a similar way. (Usually, the trauma becomes sexualised as a fetish.) So, please don’t say that these women hate women, because they are most likely confused victims who have internalised their own abuse. Nolan is a psychopath for exploiting people’s most vulnerable and private weaknesses like that.

  30. (a) I don’t see anyone here saying “these women hate women.”
    (b) Not all people into consensual BDSM are working through childhood traumas.
    (c) P-A:N(c) is a misogynist and an asshat, and I would recommend he seek therapy, but I am reluctant to try to diagnose him over the internet.

  31. I don’t think you understood what the Nolan guy was actually saying.

    This is why it is such a disaster to say “never hit women”…..it destroys the womans ability to bond closely with the man via a good spanking.

    I’m pretty sure he’s saying that the only true way to bond with a woman is through spanking.

    So, please don’t say that these women hate women,

    Pretty sure we only said that about Mr. at-the-disco, not about the women.

    Nolan is a psychopath

    There’s ableism galore in there, but I think we both roughly agree that he treats women as things, not people. But that’s called misogyny.

  32. Once again proving that anything Cloudiah can say succinctly, I can add a bunch of words to. :P Curses, ninjaed! Again!

  33. I was referring to the person who wrote the article, not the people leaving comments. They clearly wrote “By a pretty good woman he seems to mean a woman who hates women nearly as much as he does.” That’s what I meant.

  34. Also, I wasn’t using the term “psychopath” loosely. A psychopath is someone who is incapable of feeling empathy and remorse, someone who is unable to view others as human beings, and thus uses and exploits people for their own interests or pleasure.

  35. yep, we’ve pretty much all watched Criminal Minds. It’s just that mot of us feel that isn’t enough to enable us to make medical diagnoses over the internet.

  36. Why are the necro trolls always stone stupid?

  37. Team Reed!

    Sorry, I had to.

    Also, most of a psych degree, like, I need three gen eds to complete it, not qualified to make internet Dx’s.

  38. I have never watched Criminal Minds, and psychopathy is not a medical diagnosis.

  39. But it is an internet diagnosis here, and you should probably stop.

  40. Seems to me that you’re the one who is stupid, since I just explained that psychopathy is not a medical term, and therefore what I said was not a diagnosis of any kind. Plus, you people seem to focus on the wrong aspect of this thing. What’s important is the misinterpretation of the repetition compulsion by the writer of this article, which is dismissed as misogyny, when it’s not.

  41. You’re off to a swell start. You can’t even figure out that Nolan didn’t write this article, and that David, the blog owner, is who wrote this:

    By a pretty good woman he seems to mean a woman who hates women nearly as much as he does

    which is what you’re taking issue with.

    But keep on keepin’ on, cupcake.

  42. Using “you people” is always a brilliant rhetorical tactic.

  43. So, a woman who was beaten as a child is likely to find a partner who also beats her in a similar way. (Usually, the trauma becomes sexualised as a fetish.)

    Oh, go fuck yourself.

  44. @noxteryn -

    don’t think you understood what the Nolan guy was actually saying. What he was describing is known in Psychology as Repetition Compulsion. Basically, when a person is traumatised, they tend to attempt to re-live their trauma by placing themselves in situations where it is likely to re-occur. So, a woman who was beaten as a child is likely to find a partner who also beats her in a similar way. (Usually, the trauma becomes sexualised as a fetish.) So, please don’t say that these women hate women, because they are most likely confused victims who have internalised their own abuse. Nolan is a psychopath for exploiting people’s most vulnerable and private weaknesses like that.

    Dude, work on reading for comprehension.

    The women David is referring to when he says

    [..] a woman who hates women nearly as much as he does

    Are the women who (allegedly) say

    AT LAST…..a man who really knows what we are like

    and

    [are] HAPPY that I describe women as mostly liars and manipulators who try to get men to do what they want

    A person who believes that women are mostly liars and manipulators hates women, it’s not that fuckin’ complicated.

  45. I just explained that psychopathy is not a medical term

    Yep, well you kind of undermined that argument when you defined a psychopath as someone with antisocial personality disorder.

  46. noxteryn: What he was describing is known in Psychology as Repetition Compulsion.

    No, he was describing how beneficial it is for men to beat women.

    This is why it is such a disaster to say “never hit women”…..it destroys the womans ability to bond closely with the man via a good spanking.

    Nothing about the specious attempt you’ve just made to make all about nonsensical applications of psychology.

    Also, I wasn’t using the term “psychopath” loosely.

    Yes you were. You are not a person who is both trained in psychoanalysis, and who has had the time, access to carefully evaluate Nolan.

    . Plus, you people seem to focus on the wrong aspect of this thing. What’s important is the misinterpretation of the repetition compulsion by the writer of this article, which is dismissed as misogyny, when it’s not.

    Seems to be you are somewhat ignorant of Nolan (as well as failing to read his words: see above, which ties into your lack of ability to make a reasonable assessment of his overall levels of psychopathy). His misogyny is plain.

    Why do you feel the need to ignore it?

  47. So, a woman who was beaten as a child is likely to find a partner who also beats her in a similar way. (Usually, the trauma becomes sexualised as a fetish.)

    This is utter bullshit. There isn’t any particular link between trauma and an interest in BDSM.

  48. noxteryn – so, you dismiss Nolan as a psychopath, but feel the need to say women bring these beatings on themselves because they were … beaten as children?

    Whether or not Nolan has any actual mental illness/whatever isn’t for us to say, and it’s not all thar relevant anyway. He’s a misogynistic douchebag, a liar and a general scumbag, and has demonstrated it on plenty of other occasions. If you’re condemning him, you need to be a damn sight clearer about it. If you’re not, then you’re handwaving away his wish to see women beaten.

    Which is it?

  49. Does anyone here even bother to read what is being said before replying? None of you understood anything of what I said. I was criticising the writer’s (David Futrelle) tendency to dismiss women’s self-loathing as misogyny, whereas it is an obvious symptom of pathology (most likely some form of PTSD). People who have been abused by their parents often choose partners who abuse them or whom they abuse in the same way (and I don’t understand why people swear at me for saying that, since it’s a widely known statistical fact), and that’s why the women described and exploited by Nolan exist. (This has absolutely nothing to do with BDSM, and I have no idea why it is being mentioned in this context.) I thought this was an important oversight from the writer’s (David Futrelle) side, because victims of abuse shouldn’t be blamed for the self-hatred they feel as a result of said abuse. Evidently, you people are too fanatical to be conversed with. I’m out of here.

  50. You’re necroing a thread that’s a year old and want people to start reading it over again? Are you a complete idiot?

    Also, look up internalised misogyny. It exists. How else do you explain the existence of feMRAs and the like?

    Plus, internet diagnoses are not acceptable here. You don’t go around trying to pathologise people you’ve never met, let alone a whole class of people.

    This is a mockery site. Come in making stupid comments and you’ll be mocked. Good riddance.

  51. Stick the flounce, noxteryn.

  52. “This has absolutely nothing to do with BDSM, and I have no idea why it is being mentioned in this context.”

    Oh it could be where you said — “Usually, the trauma becomes sexualised as a fetish.”

    And again with the internet diagnoses! Also, the women described aren’t exploited, they’re people like Sunshine fucking Mary who decide, for whatever reason, that women are inferior to men and thus they want a man who agrees. It’s a conscious desire, not an unconscious repetition.

  53. I feel like I just got hit by a wall of ‘splaining.

  54. And there was a layer of creepiness underlying the “they sexualise abuse as a fetish”. Yeah, Nolan et al would just love to hear that.

  55. Yeah, that was kind of gross. Which seems fitting, on a thread about P-A:N(c).

  56. noxteryn: Does anyone here even bother to read what is being said before replying? None of you understood anything of what I said. I was criticising the writer’s (David Futrelle) tendency to dismiss women’s self-loathing as misogyny, whereas it is an obvious symptom of pathology (most likely some form of PTSD).

    We read it. We disputed it.

    You argue that Nolan is arguing women seek this out because… and then you make up shit about unknowable trauma and pretend (as in the quotation above) you can diagnose the mythical women Nolan is talking about from the depths of your projective imagination.

    Nolan said women need a good, “spanking” to bond with men. Not traumatised women, but women; as a class. You ignored that, and made shit up.

    “This has absolutely nothing to do with BDSM, and I have no idea why it is being mentioned in this context.”

    The make like a dog (or the fool you appear to be) and return to your vomit: “Usually, the trauma becomes sexualised as a fetish.”.

    If the, “fetish” (which word has a specific psychological meaning; which you are in no position to diagnose, quite apart from your misuse of the word in this context*) is one of being beaten, then the implication is that BDSM practitioners may be, “coping” with past abuses”.

    None of which is anything like what Nolan said.

    *“fetish” specifically refers to a strong sexual preoccupation with an object, material or body part. Fetishism is not in itself recognized as a psychiatric disorder. Usually the focus of a fetish is something not traditionally considered sexual. Examples include:

    Alvinolagnia- a fetish for stomachs
    Dorophilia- a fetish for animal furs, leather and skins
    Balloon fetishism- …well, you get the idea.

    The word you meant to use was paraphilia, but even then you are using it incorectely:

    “Paraphilia,” according to Robert T. Francouer’s The Complete Dictionary of Sexology, means compulsively responding in a sexual way to an unusual or socially unacceptable stimulus. Psychiatrists might refer to The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), the American medical community’s primary source on mental disorders. The most recent edition, the DSM-IV, only describes paraphilia as a psychiatric disorder if it causes distress to the individual or harm to others

  57. Ooh, are we playing who knows more about psychology with the troll? Because I’m going to win.

    Also, random – I have just increased my slut score by getting my hair dyed, thus hiding my age and tricking men into wanting to have sex with me even though, as a woman over 30, I am obviously no longer fertile.

  58. A fetish can also be an artifact a surprisingly personable flesh eating vampire would like you to steal for her ^.^

    Yes I am obsessed with this game, thank you for noticing.

    Oh and IMO fetishists are perfectly nice about it, now, ymmv, but the ones I’ve known realize their requests are…different…and are polite about that.

  59. Tick tick tick goes Cassandra’s biological clock…oh, never mind, too late! *dies laughing at that stupidity* (not you, them)

  60. Argenti: That’s a different sort of fetish. :)

  61. My favorite part about the troll’s BSDM fail was the complete failure to consider the fact that not all BSDM is M/f D/s.

  62. Also, random – I have just increased my slut score by getting my hair dyed, thus hiding my age and tricking men into wanting to have sex with me even though, as a woman over 30, I am obviously no longer fertile.

    This just means you’ll just have to settle for alimony payments instead of the “jackpot” child support. That’s ok. Every little bit of misandry helps.

  63. Pecunium — well of course :)

    She’s the one with that quote on the importance of death that I emailed to you last run-through. It’s a pleasure doing business with her, if you can overlook the whole corpse eating part.

    “Death is the ultimate dilemma and integral to the beliefs and behavior of every culture. Life is bore on the corpses of the dead. Without death, there would be no motivation to accomplish anything. The only emotion would be existing. Life would be pestilential and agonizing.”

    See? Love her.

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