“Even when men are all locked in cages, they’ll complain that it’s so much work for women to feed them,” and other insights on feminism courtesy of Reddit.
So this weekend I attended an interesting conference on the future of feminism. I’d like to present some of the most insightful papers from it.
Clarification: When I said I “attended a conference” I meant I “took a look at the Men’s Rights subreddit.” By “interesting” I meant “tedious” and by “insightful” I meant “ridiculous.” And by “papers” of course I meant “comments.”
So here, without further ado, are some of the pearls of wisdom I found in a thread asking the twin questions “What, in your opinion, is Feminism’s ultimate goal? When do you think they’ll consider their job ‘done?’” (Each yellow comment is a direct answer to one or both of the questions.)
Boy, these “feminists” sound like terrible people!
Posted on October 7, 2012, in $MONEY$, antifeminism, crackpottery, matriarchy, misogyny, MRA, oppressed men, paranoia, pig ignorance, playing the victim, radfems oh my, reddit, straw feminists and tagged anti-feminism, antifeminism, feminism, men's rights, misogyny, mras, reddit, straw feminists. Bookmark the permalink. 146 Comments.
“Because movies! Because monetary independence! Because Castration Boogie-(wo)man!!” So many people trying so hard to find reasons to complain and play the martyr card, and so many people failing miserably at it.
Christ, can’t any of these assholes crack a dictionary? That reactionary “Feminism is evil!” shit is so old. So boring. Intellectually lazy…ah hell, never mind.
One fella whined that the aim of feminism is women doing what we want to do at any given moment (which, he added, leads to the unhappiness of women and men).
Ummm, I think the movement is much more than that, but even if it wasn’t…why the fuck shouldn’t women do what they want when they want to? Can you imagine being in a relationship with someone like that? Christ, you’d strain yourself every night trying not to smother them in their sleep.
Mouthbreathers
Wow, it’s not often you (well, me) see a comment from an MRA that makes you think that they’re living in a fantasy world even more than you already thought they were.
Someone actually believes that feminists/women will reach (or even could reach) the level of evil of Drow? o.o *Asplodey brain*
*Also, insert obligatory NAD(row)ALT*
@shiraz
Iranee hastee?
Poor capon1 in the middle of all that trying to act like a reasonable person.
Self-awareness level = 0%
Irony level = OVER NINE THOUSAND!!!!!
@ShadetheDruid: As far as I can tell, the fact that the drow of Menzoberranzan (and presumably other cities and other worlds, I’m not up on the drow of Greyhawk) are matriarchal is imputed directly to their being “usually evil.”
Or at least it was, in older times (they date from the 70s; Menzoberranzan dates from the mid-80s, with the first Forgotten Realms boxed set).
I would hope the Matron Mothers are less Because They’re Evil nowadays than they were before, but the Forgotten Realms book for 3rd Edition details the rebellious drow goddess Eilistraee (don’t try to pronounce it, you’ll strain something), who is depicted as an elf chick … dancing in the moonlight … naked.
Stay classy, Wizards. Stay classy.
LOL, they would choose a derivative POS movie that cannibalized half a dozen other stories as their example.
A guy named “cockpuncher” wants to talk about hurting men? OK, then.
Cages, really? They can’t seem to go very long before dragging in their bondage fantasies, can they?
I, for one, am touched by “magikstranger”‘s concern for “women in other countries” having no rights. He’s worried, you see, that there are countries where husbands can beat their wives to death, and there is nothing that women can do about it, countries where women are not permitted to drive, go to school, or travel anywhere without a male guardian, countries where a woman can get raped as a form of revenge against her family and then stoned for being a slut. Such a gentleman! At the same time, he believes that the patriarchal oppression of women is a myth. As is the idea that eternal vigilance is the price of liberty, apparently.
“gynocradictatorship”
Yes! Yes this is the new best word. I must find a situation in which I’ll have an excuse to use this word.
Damn! They’re onto our plan to sacrifice (male) babies to the Spider Queen. It’s a good thing David brought us this important intel…
Now we must activate Plan B: Begin caging men immediately, and then neglecting to feed them!
Thanks to the feminist hivemind, you all know your assigned tasks, so get to your battle stations immediately before the gynodictatorship is threatened by the organized might of the MRM!
p.s. Have you guyz seen catsagainstcatcalling? (That is such a grumpy looking little kitty.)
Dammit, now I have to put together my dog’s old puppy crate again. Curse those crafty MRA’s!
r/MRedditors (and probably MRAs elsewhere) have taken to calling patriarchy/male privilege a conspiracy theory. I find this especially amusing given the fondness of Manosphere types for using the “Red Pill” as a shorthand for their movement.
Cloudiah, that kitty looks like the Yoda of the cat world.
Best grumpy cat face ever!
I actually saw some guys argue this out on another men’s rights reddit thread. In the United States at least, women were never oppressed because we had the right to own property. Doesn’t matter that those laws weren’t enacted until the mid-nineteenth century. Doesn’t matter that they were usually badly enforced. Doesn’t matter that other than property rights, we still had dependent status on men in the eyes of society and most other parts of law. Doesn’t matter that we could not vote, or choose if/when to have children, or retain custody over those children. A law saying that we could technically own things automatically means we were never oppressed.
Anyone got any links to research (like surveys) into how well people in general understand feminism, and what the word means? I have met women before who won’t call themselves feminists, even though by their actions and opinions they should, because they have this outdated/confused idea of what it is.
I’d like to know if these guys are being willfully ignorant, or if they are just lazily ignorant because the world at large doesn’t get it either.
Karalora you said what I was thinking in a much funnier way. Off topic but I just have to get something off my chest, and if it’s been said before let me restate it. Just because you (typical MRA) feel like a loser, it doesn’t mean all men are losers. It just means you need to take responsibility for making your life better. I’m not saying man up or woman up, I’m saying grow up.
While I’m on my soap box, thank you David and commenters for being here.
@long time lurker – hear, hear!
SO many of those. I was one in college. And tons of men as well.
It ought to give them pause to assert that half the population being able to do whatever they feel like, yanno that whole freedom thingummy, creates grave unhappiness for both women and men.
I suppose that is pretty much the authoritarian argument against civil rights for the past few hundred years in a nutshell
I hope SRS starts using gynocradictatorship, that’d make me chuckle for a bit.
I’m pretty sure I saw “clitatorship” here recently (by an MRA, natch). I really like that one.
The Drow…women are like drow elves… How do they square this with the women can’t fight/ too lazy/to cowardly/to weak /to stupid thinking and a TOTALLY FICTIONAL RACE of entirely fictional world?
And seriously, is that book series still popular? I read them, oh fuck, decades ago as a KID. As fantasy goes, it was interesting but fluffy
And Merlin is back
*insert happy dance*
Well… the drow got slightly refluffed, or maybe just more explored. Simply, the spider goddess Lloth is female, and a complete asshole. She enforces the matriarchy in the Drow because it follows the female in pretty much all spider species as being the more dangerous one, and she’s all over anything that’s a spider allusion or refrence. Basically, they’ve just got an asshole with weird ideas enforcing unusual crap at the top of them.
That said… hahaha, oh wow. Man these guy’s are delusional to the point of thinking the feminist movement is about… I guess establishing some Orwellian state with a female flavor for fluff. Seriously… they’re implying that they can be keeled over with… I guess in their minds a barrage of thrown high heels? I mean, that would be amusing to watch, but I have no idea how they’re pulling out that level of control unless they’re projecting their own wants.
This dystopian future they imagine reminded me of that show by The Two Ronnies – The Worm That Turned. http://popandcrisps.wordpress.com/2009/01/21/the-worm-that-turned/
In the future the evil feminist cat-lady-ocracy will outlaw emotion, and dogs.
Dammit Xardoz, I worried about that puppy, though it’s kind of sad that in spite of the movie being about the virtue of emotions that was the only scene that was able to conjure any in me.
If you read the original thread, ladies, you’ll be relieved to learn that all sexism (against women, that is) was abolished long, long ago, and the only reason feminism still exists is that feminist organizations are such huge moneymakers. It’s the same with all civil rights movements, in fact. Black people, for example, aren’t oppressed at all; it’s just trickery to keep those billion-dollar civil rights groups raking in the benjamins.
One particularly awesome answer:
To borrow from history, feminism won’t fall until it is galvanized under a single leader and then that leader passes without a clear heir. Look at the Mongol more specifically.
When somebody asks if he’s seriously comparing feminists to Mongol hordes, he confirms that he is. Then, inevitably, someone adds that feminists are even MORE like the Nazis.
I volunteer to be Feminist Genghis Khan and unite us in our final blaze of glory. Many sacrifices will be made to the spider god.
I have to assume this person is taking the piss out of them, but it’s still funny:
First we have to distinguish between feminism and feminists. The goals of feminism are clearly stated and benign.
Now feminists they want to take over everything and enact female supremacy. They want massive hive cities with women who have synchronized periods and who open up the fortified city gates to let in men who live out in the peripheries as wild savages who basically just eat, sleep and kill each other; what feminists typically think men do for fun. When the men come in they will be spent up like mayonnaise tubes and thrown out. It is sick. They will not even cuddle.
It is just a best guess.
Guys.
I think there’s a secret society of Terrible Ladies ™ who act like assholes to the MRM and tell them that it’s because they’re feminists. Then, when the MRM bitches on the internet about feminists being evil, real feminists get all confused.
It HAS to be what’s going on, because nothing an MRA has ever said about feminism has described ANY feminist I know. Fuck, even Twisty Faster doesn’t want this gynocradictatorship nonsense! I mean… come ON!
We can organize a Mongolian BBQ for the party after. Who wants to help?
Shaenon Khan, I am submitting my application to be part of your horde, with references available upon request.
I am SO in.
I don’t understand which Mongol this person is talking about.
Is it Steve?
I bet it’s Steve.
Where is all this feminist money? WHERE? You bastards are holding out on me.
Why the hell would I want to put the men in my life in cages? They’re HUMANS, for goodness sake! Besides, I’m not sure how to reconcile how feminists are supposedly getting all the good jobs while men are forced to be unemployed and useless while simultaneously sitting at home leeching off the hardworking men who do ALL THE WORK and somehow keep men in cages while also wanting to live at home alone with a gazillion cats and stay at least 10 feet from a man at all time.
I mean…exactly how can someone believe in this much contradictory stuff at once without being even somewhat cognizant that they are full of shit?
bloody blockquotes!
Will there be vegetarian options at the BBQ?
I can bring dessert: pavlova, lemon meringue pie, and cake. I was thinking of fruit cake, but I’m happy to bring a chocolate option too if people would like that.
BUT! BUT! I thought that women were SCARED of spiders! And needed BIG MANLY MEN to come squish them!
How would we get to being spider-god-worshipping heathens anyway?
Mongolian barbeques are the ideal social situation for having a yak, I find.
Lowquacks, I don’t know whether to laugh or groan at that one!
Dualityheart – I’m scared of spiders. At least the bloody big huntsmen we get here!
I think these guys are confusing feminism with planet Amazonia from Futurama.
lowquacks, that was terrible. I hope you’re properly ashamed of yourself.
I wouldn’t snoo-snoo an MRA with someone else’s ten foot pole.
What about the proud fembots of Robonia?
So wait, we’re mongolian drow now? But…but…I always play a Dwarf…..
Hail, hail Robonia, a land I didn’t make up!
I thought Robonia was where the hypergamous cock carousel women lived? I mean, if Coilette is anything to go by.
Falconer: This makes me think of Vhaeraun. I’d hate to think that an MRA would come up with this idea, but I could see them going further with the Drow analogy and styling themselves as being like Vhaeraun followers. All about the mans and against the evil womenz matriclitgynocracy (or whatever the -cracy is for today), and splitting off to form their own patriarchal society, “the way it should be”, while being persecuted for being male just like in real life! /sarcasmses
Of course, Vhaeraun’s followers are still just as evil, but MRAs hardly have a history of noticing things like that.
Other musings on Drow stuffs: It’s amazing the messed up stuff you can find in the earlier (and I assume there’s still stuff kicking around now too) parts of D&D. Though i’m not really up on new D&D standard lore, let alone the old stuff, so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. “Because Lolth” makes more sense than “because evil wommanz”, and is what i’m used to.
I still tone down Drow society a lot though (at least the standard society model, having more variety is always good). Less betrayal, less distrust, less all-evil-all-the-time, just so their society would actually be functional and not just collapse. Also, less cartoonishness. Drow get a lot of shit for being cartoony evil and stuff, but I like them.
Drow are like a shitty, leaky, broken down old house. Someone made a mistake and let the house get that way, but it has an interesting shape and lots of potential if you put the effort and work in to fixing it. Actually, i’d probably say that about the entirety of D&D, but hey.
(Side note, i’ve always pronounced Eilistraee as “El-iss-tray-ee”, which is close enough to the “official” but sounds better, to me at least – I think the first syllable is actually supposed to be “Eel” rather than “El”).
TL;DR: Blah blah blah D&D stuff, Drow are messed up, MRAs are stupid. Can you tell I like D&D yet?
aworld: You can always be a Duergar.
dualityheart: Having to worship an evil spider goddess is better than the alternative (you get turned into a big half spider, half person monstrosity.
Or you get killed, that happens too). At that point, I think it’s less “how?” and more “why not?”
so am I to understand that NONE of the conspiracy theories involve cannibalism? wtf reddit!
Oh, we can fix that! Maybe use some of our caged man-imals as the main course at the Mongolian victory barbecue?
You two realize they’re going to think you’re serious, right?
I think they imagine this is going to happen:
There is no place on this planet where men are oppressed. Unfortunately, the oppression of women continues. I just watched an excellent documentary on PBS called, Half the Sky, about the oppression of women throughout the world. It’s based on a book by the same name. It’s heartbreaking what some women have to deal with: sex slavery (even for young girls), lack of medical care for pregnancy and childbirth, FGM, lack of education, and no justice in cases of rape. I wish they had highlighted the plight of women like Soraya M. who was stoned to death on the accusation of adultery by the husband who wanted rid of her.
I just read that book. It was OK* until the authors seriously advocated sweatshops as a tool of women’s liberation.
(*the pure stories of what people had achieved were good, the authors are big colonialist ninnyfaces who think that capitalism will solve all problems ever)
I went and read the whole damn thread. These guys are so poisoned by patriarchy that they cannot imagine a world where one gender does not dominate the other, and where women are starting to achieve parity means men are completely oppressed and will be exterminated.
But I can’t see how they are really afraid of their doomsday prophecy, or they wouldn’t be posting and attracting attention.
Pillowinhell: for real. The first thing the Gynocradictatorship will do is shut down their means of communication!
I call this the ‘OwlSlave paradox’.
Also gynocradictatorship is a long word and hard to pronounce. As a replacement, may I suggest ‘gascism’?
Wow. This thread has taken on a fun science-fictiony/fantasy/ Twilight Zone kind of air.
Any of you guys ever read “Houston, Houston, Do You Read?” by Alice Sheldon? Is that what these morons have in mind? *chuckles*
Coming into this waaaaaaaay too late, but here is grumpy cat:
Hmm…apart from some of the colourful rhetoric, I can’t see how most of these comments don’t hit the nail pretty much on the head. Feminism does basically aim to secure as many goodies for woman as possible. In that sense it is business-minded, and out to get for women as much money and power as possible. Take this from the UK’s ‘The Guardian’ in August 2011:
Women’s Charities GainFunding for Male Abuse Victims
The Home Office has announced that funding allocated to services for male victims of domestic and sexual violence will mostly go to women’s charities.
The Government allocated £225,000 to a male victim fund for 2011-2013 which represents just over half a per cent of the £40m it has ring-fenced up to 2015 for specialist local domestic and sexual violence support services, rape crisis centres, the national domestic violence helplines and the stalking helpline.
The male victim fund has now been allocated to 12 local charities across England and Wales but only one award went directly to a dedicated charity just for male victims. The other charities to win funding include North Derby Women’s Aid, The Women’s Support Network and a number of local services specialising in work with female victims. Futhermore, only one-third of the awards went to fund projects which would provide support to men who were the victims of abuse from a female partner or relative.
Specialist men’s charities said they ‘dismayed but not surprised’ by the move, as they had previously been excluded from accessing the existing Ministry of Justice Rape Support Fund after UK Rape Crisis secured a proviso that only organisations providing a dedicated women’s service could apply to that fund – thereby excluding organisations that specialize in helping male survivors from applying.
Dedicated men’s services who applied unsuccessfully to the 2011-2013 male victims fund include The Men’s Network, The ManKind Initiative, Mankind Counselling, Survivors Manchester and Working With Men.
@CassandraSays – That’s why it’s fun!
@natfantastic: I’m good with gascism.
BUT I WORSHIP THE RAVEN QUEEEEENNNNNNNNN!!!111!!1