Matt Forney: When we call women fat sluts, it’s because we care!

Matt Forney, your argument sounds dubious at best.

Hey, ladies! You know how the dudes of the so-called manosphere are always saying horrible shit about you? They’re not doing it out of hate. No, no, they’re doing it for your own good! In a guest post on the blog Freedom Twenty-Five, Matt Forney offers women his own brand of tough (alleged) love:

The manosphere is frequently accused of being misogynistic because we mock fat girls, disdain sluts and criticize the behavior of modern women. … But scientific studies and common sense both show that women are generally happiest when they’re physically fit, chaste and focused on their families instead of their careers. Women who are virgins are exponentially less likely to divorce; women with BMIs in the normal range are more likely to have fulfilling relationships instead of being pumped and dumped; women who throw their lives into their jobs are less happy than those who become wives and mothers.

If you follow the link back to his post you will see how Forney has carefully footnoted all these assertions. For example, his line about women who aren’t fat having better relationships links to this carefully constructed academic study.

Oh, wait, that’s actually a link to a discussion on Yahoo Answers that’s full of alleged wisdom like this:

Fat women have to settle for less for the same reason that people: in wheelchairs, poor people [especially men], balding people, or single people with children have to settle for less. They have less to offer on the dating market, so; there is a much smaller pool of people willing to date them. And the people who are willing to date them are usually of lower quality.

You can’t argue with that kind of SCIENCE.

Forney continues:

Basically, for women, the modern feminist consumerist lifestyle is a path to misery and loneliness.

[Citation needed] [And by “citation” I don’t mean “some dude spouting shit on Yahoo answers”]

In light of that knowledge, ask yourself this: who are the real misogynists? The ones who are guiding women back onto the path to happiness, or the ones encouraging them to destroy themselves through poor life choices?

Here’s an example of Forney “guiding women back onto the path of happiness,” taken from an earlier post on his own blog:

Bashing fat girls is all well and good, but how many of us have taken the fight to the enemy? By not viciously rubbing their hideousness in their faces, we are encouraging fatties to blimp up even more. Silence implies consent.

Back to his Freedom Twenty-Five post:

The fact is if you defend and excuse away womens’ bad behavior, fully aware that they’re harming themselves, you don’t truly love them. If you want to avert someone from traveling down the path towards death and destitution, you’re going to have to get in their face and risk hurting their feeeelings. In that sense, not only do we in the manosphere love women, we perhaps love them more than any other men in the world.

The manosphere is a space for men, but it also doubles as a mass intervention for the female of the species. Stop crying about your hurt feeeeelings and listen up, ladies. You might learn something.

Matt Forney, you’re a shithead.

I say that out of love.

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Posted on October 18, 2012, in antifeminism, douchebaggery, evil fat fatties, imaginary backwards land, it's science!, misogyny, PUA, shaming tactics, sluts and tagged , , . Bookmark the permalink. 160 Comments.

  1. I did not know this but now I am blessed and somewhat more educated.

  2. I dunno, man. Before you start going about shaming people for their sexuality, weight, and life choices, I demand scientific studies proving the following.

    1) Sluts, fat women, and career-focused women are less happy than women who are not those things.
    2) This effect is not caused by some other factor (such as people being douchebags to them, or women who are virginal at marriage being more likely to grow up in subcultures that shame divorce).
    3) Shaming is an effective method to get people to not be slutty, fat, or career-focused.

  3. Well, in my experience (n=1) adult virgins have a 0% probability of divorce. This is probably related to me not being married…

    (I know he probably meant that women who are virgins when they get married are less likely to divorce, but… that’s not what he said.)

  4. Stop crying about your hurt feeeeelings and listen up, ladies.

    Does he think that putting extra e’s in the word feelings makes it a ridiculous concept? Would it work for other words, too? I put money in the caaaaaaaash register. So is the word cash now meaningless and silly?

  5. Silence implies consent.

    That’s why this guy should never, ever get laid right there.

  6. Ozy, I’m confident there are literally tens of Yahoo answers proving all of those things. BOOM, SCIENCE

  7. feminist consumerist

    Feminism isn’t consumerist. Consumerism isn’t feminist. I agree that too much consumerism can contribute to a person’s unhappiness, but it has nothing to do with feminism.

  8. Also as a fat career-oriented woman*, my experience disproves his thesis, therefore argument is invalid! (Hey that’s more data than he used.)

    (*I’m sure Owly would call me a slut since I wore a tank top underneath a sweater that one time, but meh.)

  9. Also science means something. Too many people think you can come up with a hypothesis about something you’ve been thinking about, and you’ve just practiced science. No, dumbasses, that’s like buying a garden hose and saying that you washed the car.

  10. “We love you. Now shut up because we don’t give a shit about what you think or feel”.

    This reminds me of being told “quit you’re sniveling or I’ll give you something to really cry about”. Something I heard frequently as a child.

  11. While Mike (and other shitheads with a chip on their shoulder about the women around them not providing boners) silence is appreciated, I don’t give a tinkers damn about their opinion. I’m pretty sure that a large majority of the human population also feels this way. Now, how do we get Mike and his friends to understand this very simple concept?

  12. “encouraging them to destroy themselves through poor life choices?”

    So touched that you care but I like making mistakes sometimes. Builds character and I learn something new ^_^

  13. Also this is a really abusive dynamic. “I care about you! I’m hurting you because I LOOOOOOOOVE YOU!”

  14. There isn’t even evidence that weight is a good indicator of health. I mean fuck, hating fat women “for their own good” rests entirely on that premise and its not supported by evidence despite heaps of studies.

  15. Creative Writing Student

    Jesus Christ, what a git.

    He is aware that feminism isn’t something women dreamed up because lulz, right? Feminism is the response to women as a group being unhappy with the state of their lives and coming together to combat shared grievances.

  16. Dear Women, who cares about you more: feminists, or angry dicks on the internet who just want to shame you for making choices that don’t please their egos and penises?

    Hm. This rhetorical question leads you to a very different answer if you load it differently.

  17. Also this is a really abusive dynamic. “I care about you! I’m hurting you because I LOOOOOOOOVE YOU!”

    Exactly. “You’re MAKING ME hurt you. If you’d just stop being such a fat slut, I wouldn’t have to do this!”

    Such a fucking twisted rationale. No, you are an independent adult capable of self-control who has free will. You are choosing to harm, you asshole.

  18. I care that they care.

  19. Women who are virgins are exponentially less likely to divorce

    Heheheh, loser made a stupid mistake. I mock him.

  20. ‘Silence implies consent’. Actually, you not being the fucking boss of me implies I don’t need your goddamn consent for anything. Further, you not being the boss of me means you don’t have the right to emotionally manipulate me to you r own ends. So, kindly shut the fuck up now, kay? There’s a peach.

  21. Matt, I say this out of love: I don’t give a tiny rat’s ass what your boner thinks about my appearance, career, or life in general. Take your abuser logic and cram it sideways, bubba.
    I wish you self-awareness.

    xoxo
    hellkell

  22. In light of that knowledge, ask yourself this: who are the real misogynists? The ones who are guiding women back onto the path to happiness, or the ones encouraging them to destroy themselves through poor life choices?

    But remember, it’s actually MRAs and not feminists who view women as adults.

  23. The fact is if you defend and excuse away womens’ bad behavior, fully aware that they’re harming themselves, you don’t truly love them.

    Beyond the obvious bullshit in this statement, why are you trying to love me already? I sure as hell don’t love you. I don’t even like you. I don’t want your icky damaged version of love. Go away with it, burn it with fire, it is gross. See, this is a twisted version of mistaking patronizing control for respect. So and so obviously respects his wife/daughter/sister/mistress- he won’t let her out of the house where danger lurks, he keeps her safe. At home. With him. There is a not so subtle difference between respecting someone for who they are, or just as a human being, and valuing them for what they can do for you. Shitforbrains does not ‘love’ women or respect them, he tries to make them suitable to him so he can use them. All the while trying to convince us that we will be ever so happy if we give him hard-ons.

  24. Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III

    Bleh. I almost prefer MEM super-villain style monologing, At least it’s more honest than this self-serving bilge.

  25. thenatfantastic

    Off topic but it may cheer people up to read reviews of binders* that have started springing up on Amazon.

    *women not included

  26. @ drst and the silence implies consent thing- Woooaaa, good eye, there. That one flew under my radar.

  27. I love those Amazon comments. Also OT, but this is a cute puffin.

  28. thenatfantastic

    Puffin! That was so cute it made BoyFantastic get killed in his videogame.

  29. Please apologize to BoyFantastic on my behalf.

  30. Creative Writing Student

    @cloudiah

    I forgot how cute puffins were! *squee*

  31. “Beyond the obvious bullshit in this statement, why are you trying to love me already? I sure as hell don’t love you. I don’t even like you. I don’t want your icky damaged version of love. Go away with it, burn it with fire, it is gross.”</em.

    Yah. Where this guy goes wrong is: he doesn't understand that women don't want him to truly love them. What women want is for him to leave them alone. That could be an honest or a dishonest mistake but either way it's his firs false premise and the origin of all his other crap.

  32. Since I’m already going all OT in this thread, I’m just going to continue with another example of the ridiculous things MRAs find to be angry about.

    Okay, it isn’t the greatest slogan. But the poster is actually gender-neutral! Shouldn’t they be happy? A bunch of them even think the image makes it look more like the woman is the offender — shouldn’t that be like Yahtzee for them?

    And they’re all trying to pretend that “inappropriately” is so hard to define.

  33. Im not sure how being a virgin ensures a happy marriage. Oh, he means a virgin UNTIL married! terrible writing, and also not necessarily true. Also studies show (not yahoo studies of course) that unmarried women are less depressed than married women. Where is he getting his SCIENCE!?

    oh, and Women are their own species? Explains why we’re so often referred to as “females”.

  34. I wish you self-awareness.

    Oh, Hellkell, that’s just cruel.

  35. I don’t know about how well this will go over, but here’s my tough-love message to Matt Forney:

  36. Funny…studies also show that married men are happier. Yet somehow I don’t think that advice would go over well in the manosphere. Also those “virgins less likely to divorce” studies? one of them was done by The Heritage Foundation. Real unbiased organization there. Also correlation does not imply causation. Also I still haven’t come across one good explanation why divorce rates are the be all end all for civilization.

    Ever notice also how the manosphere never ever brings up the topic of fat men, except when they’re childishly trying to insult David? Being in shape only has positive effects on women now and not men? Or could it possibly be that they don’t give a rats ass about our health, just how we look and if it appeals to their bonerz or not.

    I mean this is so similar to some other manosphere rationalizations regarding the past denial of women’s rights. Usually they go like this: silly women! the only reason men denied you the right to vote/work/own your property was for your own good!!! it was to keep you safe…we all know how dangerous voting and owning your house is! Its fair we get to physically punish you too, afterall as your OWNERS we’re responsible if you do something bad. So what if you’re legally considered property, think of me, the poor man and all the responsibility it is to own a woman. But worship me for being such a loving owner!”

    “Silence implies consent”

    ah…this is the cherry on the cake though. Not at all surprising considering manospherians and their horrid views on rape. No creepwad, silence does not imply consent. It implies either or, or if anything, indifference.

    *finishes off Toblerone from last night* tastes so much better knowing that it pisses them off :P

  37. The manosphere is frequently accused of being misogynistic because we mock fat girls, disdain sluts and criticize the behavior of modern women.

    Stop crying about your hurt feeeeelings and listen up, ladies.

    The irony, it burns.

  38. @Cloudiah

    could you link to just the poster? I really don’t want to click on that thread :S

  39. themisanthropicmuse

    He also complains that ‘allowing’ women to be fat allows for them to give birth to ‘retards’ (seriously wtf?!) that he has to pay tax money for the care of. He’s a real humanitarian that guy.

    His post gives me yet another reason to be glad that I am a fat chick. I love that my mere existence is enough to piss off self-important jerks like him.

  40. AAAHH! OhholyshitthatgifcreepyasFUCK!

  41. “We hate you because we care. Really, ladies, this is why we hate you.”

    “So you’ll work extra hard to become the self-motivating blow-up dolls that we want you to be. Exist to please us. Don’t have sex before we met you because slut and it makes us insecure. Be the exact size {whatever} that we like because what we like. Be our perfect little RealDoll because that’s what we want and you having any independent ideas about what works for you in your life is A Bad Thing. Stop thinking of yourself as a person because RealDoll without batteries or whatever they use. It’s all about us so accept it and get over it and be RealDoll that cooks and cleans.”

    Fuck. I used to be a 13-year-old and I was an asshole because 13. I grew up. Give it a try fellas. You’d be amazed how much bigger the world gets, and how much more interesting it becomes.

  42. themisanthropicmuse

    By the way, how big of a douche must one be to suggest that other people must get your consent or approval for matters pertaining to their own bodies? Who gives a fuck what you like or don’t, Matt Forney? It’s none of your business, asshole.

  43. They are seriously offended by that? what the ever loving fuck?

    actually to me it looks like the woman is the one who looks like she’s trying to cop a feel while the guy is just standing there.

    Why can’t they just come out and admit they want there to be zero campaigns or laws against sexual harassment? they just don’t want it discussed ever, because no matter what they will pull the misandry card. And they accuse us of trying to remove freedom of speech.

  44. According to r/mr, there’s no need for anti-harassment campaigns because the only women who take advantage of increased enforcement are bored, malicious women who want to victimize random men for no reason.

  45. Meanwhile, they probably think wearing this shirt is hi-fucking-larious…..

  46. And the people who are willing to date them are usually of lower quality.

    I know that you Matt Forney think that any man who does not complain that a woman is not a biddable virginal male approved weight woman is not that high quality however the rest of us actually think men who not judgmental smegheads like you are pretty darn high quality.

  47. “Silence implies consent.”

    Disgusting beyond belief.

  48. @chibigodzilla

    actually they’d probably interpret that as misandry too, because the pervert is a male figure. Never mind the fact that Japanese women are often groped on trains by perverts who happen to be male, wont somebody PLEASE think of the real problem here, the implications that men are perverts?????!?

    How about that pervert does not equal all men? its just reflecting the reality of this particular crime, which evidently so funny it has to be made into a tshirt.

  49. This is good. Next time you see an MRA complaining about shaming language, just link them to Matt Forney’s post and explain that we only shame them because we care.

  50. Oh, wow – so those boys who were followed me home from fifth grade, yelling that I was a skinny ugly bitch were just trying to help me? They were warning me that if I remained scrawny and aesthetically unpleasant, I would be alone forever? That completely changes my world view! Those kids were saviors, not bullies who enjoyed seeing a nerdy girl with bad skin cry. They must be really confused, though – I’m still all the things they reviled and yet I’ve got a pretty groovy life. Huh.

  51. A good friend of mine just had her doctor tell her she should only eat breakfast and not lunch or dinner because fat. She’s diabetic. He also said she should get gastric bypass surgery. If only concern-trolling were limited to MRAs, eh?

  52. That’s odd, I’d have thought that in MRA logic women who got married and then chose to remain virgins would be extremely likely to end up divorced.

    (See, kids, this is why good grammar is important.)

  53. I have so many loving, caring, constructive comments for this man. Because I love him and want him to be happy.

    The love, it burns.

  54. thebewilderness

    The abuser lobby, once again demonstrating why studies show that married men are happier than single men and single women are happier than married women.

  55. I love this bit:

    After a bit of soul-searching, I’ve realized that I do in fact love women as a group. Before you immediately write me off as a mangina, hear me out.

    Guys, I love women—no, no no I don’t mean that! I still hate them as much you! Please don’t call me a mangina!

  56. By this logic, would the cat-calling and sexually explicit verbal harassment that many women get be a re-enforcement of their good choices? I mean, if the shaming is “for our own good,” then the cat-calling is saying “good job!”

    Right?

    Then I’m really confused because I’ve been both cat-called and shamed multiple times in my life, sometimes for the same thing (e.g. how I look, my weight, etc.). So, what gives?

    (or maybe this is just all bullshit and both the shaming and cat-calling come from narrow-minded people who are malicious at worst and completely clueless at best)

  57. thebewilderness

    There are various and assorted claims of justifications for abusive behavior. Every single one of them whether in public or in private are simply justifications for their assertion of dominance.
    Shaming and catcalling are both public displays of dominance. So is ordering you to smile, and every other demand that you perform on command.

  58. Alex: I’m sorry that happened to your friend, I hope she reports their ass to whatever licensing boards/professional associations/yelp she can.

  59. Matt Forney wouldn’t dare call a woman fat to her face because he himself is quite a chub (see his introductory video on Youtube), pale and soft like most people who spend their lives in dark rooms in front of computers, and with the requisite neck beard that many of these misfits sport. He is in his late twenties, but already looks forty, and I’ll bet you even money he’s still a virgin himself.

    Anyway, I’m proud to call myself A Fat Slut (former slut, actually — I’m happily monogamous now, having settled down (as opposed to “settled”) in my late fifties with My True Love.

  60. hippodameia8527

    Matt Forney thinks women are great.
    His message is not about hate!
    “I say that you’re fat
    cuz I care, you old bat!
    Get thin and I’ll fuck you! Can’t wait!”

  61. Thanks, hellkell. The worst part? She went to see her doctor because of an ear infection. But unfortunately, she’s gotten that kind of shit from every doctor she’s ever had (and let’s not even talk about teachers, holy shit teachers), so I’m sure how much good reporting will do. :/ But seriously. She didn’t go for dieting advice, she didn’t go for a general check-up. She went for A FUCKING EAR INFECTION. Is it a wonder that some fat women may be at best reluctant to go into a doctor’s office, and at worst refuse to go at all?

  62. Happiness studies are interesting. Those dudes don’t seem to get what they measure. Happiness can’t be measured yet (Bentham tried and failed). Free people (any gender) consistently report being less happy, because they know they have choices and see a way to improvement. The happiest country in the world is North Korea, according to the U.N. happiness index (I think that’s what it’s called). Maybe MRAs long for more juche in their lives. I’ll leave it to them. And there’s no fat chicks in North Korea!

  63. @hippodameia8527, I hereby award you 15000000000 Internets.

    You’re that awesome.

  64. // Then I’m really confused because I’ve been both cat-called and shamed multiple times in my life, sometimes for the same thing (e.g. how I look, my weight, etc.). So, what gives? //

    I experienced this all my life. I was the classic “fat girl with a pretty face,” and it seemed men desired me but were repelled by me in equal measure. It took me years to figure out that was their own inner conflict, but it still has the capacity to wound. PUAs and misogynists like Roosh go on and on about “hate f**king fatties” as though having sex with a fat girl is somehow “punishing” her — it is all about their ambivalence about women in general and the sexual act itself.

  65. hippodameia8527

    Thank you Frietag235!

    Some days it can be hard work laughing at these assholes. I like to think limmericks help. :-)

  66. Well, since I’m over 30 I guess that there’s no point in our friend Matt offering me his advice, since it’s too late and all. That means that he’s going to STFU and not pester me, right?

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