Having sex with Pickup Artists will leave you feeling shitty afterwards, says Pickup Artist
All PUAs are equally douchey, but some PUAs are more equally douchey than others. Wait, wrong Orwell book.
Over on PUA dirtbag Roosh V’s Return of Kings blog, a guest poster calling himself Emmanuel Goldstein (oh, how clever) offers a rather revealing take on the psychology of “players” and pickup artists like himself.
After justifiably mocking “nice guys” for assuming that “girls choose men like people buy houses” – that is, by carefully weighing pros and cons and looking for the best deal – he suggests that
[p]layers … are more like that sweet old lady with saggy arms wearing a hairnet at your local supermarket, handing out free, tasty samples.
Stay with him; it will all make sense, sort of, in a moment.
You’re not even looking at her, and she beckons you over to have a taste. Even though it’s junk food, you can’t resist. You avoid sweets, and here you are eating a tiny cinnabon. And really, she won’t mind if you take just the
tiptaste.Regardless, minutes later, you’re going home with a 96-pack of cinnabons – and you don’t even eat pastries! To be completely honest, the first time it happens, you’re a little jarred and confused about how the whole thing went down so fast. …
Now, imagine that that sweet old lady is actually a funny, strapping young man, and you buying those cinnabons is a woman agreeing to sex with him the night she met him. That confusion you felt after you bought a huge package of junk food? That’s how a girl might feel after her first one-night stand.
Yes, that’s right: Mr. Goldstein is comparing himself and his fellow “players” to supermarket pastry-pushers who cajole people into eating things they know they shouldn’t eat, and that they later regret eating.
And, oh yes, that are really bad for them:
If you remain unconvinced, just remember that our economy is in shambles because tens of millions of people bought homes they cannot afford, and that half of us are comically obese from eating too much junk food. That granny sample lady is looking pretty formidable right now.
Now, there are all sorts of things wrong with Mr. Goldstein’s analogy here. Sex isn’t pastry, for one thing, and for another, women (and everyone else) should be able to indulge in either of these pleasures without having assholes on the internet getting up in their business. (And, yes, PUAs, I’m saying that as a fat fatty.) I’m just trying to point out that by the terms of his own analogy, Mr. Goldstein is saying that sex with him is a shitty thing that’s bad for you.
This isn’t someone attacking PUAs for being miserable, self-centered sexual users who are only able to convince women to have sex with them through manipulation, leaving these women feeling shitty afterwards.
This is a PUA who ASPIRES to be such a miserable, self-centered sexual user he’s only able to convince women to have sex with him through manipulation, leaving these women feeling shitty afterwards.
In other words, PUAs are devoting their lives to making women feel bad about themselves. As a life goal, this seems a bit lacking.
Posted on February 8, 2013, in creepy, douchebaggery, evil fat fatties, irony alert, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, nice guys, PUA, rhymes with roosh and tagged misogyny, pick-up artists, pickup artists, PUA. Bookmark the permalink. 326 Comments.
Personal contact with Snowdrop does leave you with a bit of a not enough Purell in the world feeling, doesn’t it?
Also, is it just me or do the reflexive “you’re taking our porn!” responses to any discussion of labour issues within the sex industry sound an awful lot like the “they’re taking our jobs!” bullshit that racists like to spout whenever anything to do with immigration comes up?
We don’t have quite the same level of “they’re taking our jobs!” crap here so I can’t really compare, but it always sounds to me like these guys are complaining about anyone threatening their inalienable right to have their boners serviced however they want, and that what it means to other people – women in general or actors in porn – simply isn’t important.
No Cassandra, it’s not just you.
I have also seen self-appointed ‘feminist’ men* argue that we should support sweatshops because they mainly employ women, so where else would they work?!?!
(*LOOKING AT YOU NICHOLAS KRISTOF)
DING DING DING.
I didn’t want to derail, just had to panicvom about SE and needed to put it in context.
*shudders*
And we’re right back to the conversation about why some men are not welcomed with open arms when they decide to identify as feminists. Also, it’s grimly amusing how even if you make it explicitly clear that your issue with sex work is how it intersects with class, and the labor issues that often causes, a lot of guys still go directly to “but you can’t take my porn/strippers, why do you hate sex?”.
SE seems to have only two conversational modes – mansplaining and angry ranting about how some women are doing feminism wrong and destroying the movement by not catering to his boner enough.
Oh holy fuckpants, is he UK based? I’m just reading the whole piece now and he sounds English.
Kittehs, do you have a sofa I can sleep on and brainbleach I can watch? I’m running away.
I’ll put the pillows out, thenat! The couch is pretty short so you’ll have to curl up. Bring your summer jammies, it’s hot here at the moment!
For brainbleach I’ll ask Mads to play with her bally. That’s always fun.
Yep. In fact he runs BSDM munches in his part of England, or at least he used to.
@Kittehs I’m only 5 foot tall, no sofa is too small!
@Cassandra Mind if I ask which part? I have a friend who attends some and want to tell her to watch out.
The whole “how dare you question porn” seems to go back to some bloke’s boner, and it doesn’t increase my confidence in them, that’s for sure. I’m very dubious about mainstream pornography. No, haven’t sat through it; seeing stills on the net is enough. It’s *WORD OF THE WEEK WARNING* problematic, to say the least. An awful lot looks truly horrible, and not just because they’re not acts I’d want to do. When guys start getting really defensive about it, I wonder what sort of porn it is they’re talking about … they never say. Makes ‘em look like they’ve got guilty consciences even if that’s not the case, or they’ve nothing to feel bad about.
/stream of consciousness blather
It’s weird, I hate feminism. I’m antifeminsist and I support the MRM with every ounce o strength. Feminists are bigots and a cancer on rational thought. And all that is true. But woman feminists actually seem to prefer me over men who call themselves feminists! AS a great man just said, it’s no wonder everyone hates you, and the MRM is rising.
I can’t remember, sorry, but if you google his name it will come up. And yeah, please do warn your friend – I’d be very concerned about any friend of mine who was involved in the same scene as him.
thenat – our couch is not quite 5′ long including the arms! It’s a two-seater. Your feet’ll just have to hang over the end. Or your head, if you want to do a sort of Cat Yoga sleeping position.
Brain bleach! Here’s a corgi pup who hasn’t quite figured out Teh Gravity yet, but has mastered the Sad Face.
Awwwww, corgis! Oh yeah, to brighten up the mood – we found a pair of rats to adopt yesterday! Their owner is a member of a couple of local groups I’m also on but has to move back to Scotland and leave them behind, so we’ve tentatively said we’ll take them. We’re going to meet them on Saturday XD
thenatfantastic! Run away back to York and help me set up the Feminist Society on campus!
There bizarrely isn’t a dedicated Feminist Society here, there’s a Women’s Committee in our student union but it’s not very intersectional at all and don’t do anything terribly interesting or ground breaking.
I want my society to be primarily a discussion group to meet like minded people, talk about the issues that matter (and eat tea and biscuits/drink wine) and do some carefully thought out and interesting campaigns, maybe get some speakers in.
Keep deluding yourself, @Fatrelle.
@Historophilia
I’d recommend getting in touch with the FemSoc at Royal Holloway (@RHUL_Fem_Soc on Twitter), I’m pretty sure they only set theirs up in the past year or so, so they should be able to give you some good pointers on how to do it. They seem nice.
I’m pretty sure I know some other people (Sussex, UWE and Bristol certainly) who are members of respective FemSocs who I could also put you in touch with.
@Kittehs:
99% of mainstream porn involves some variation on coercion, force, humiliation, or a combination of those. It’s the lifeblood of porn–more than the sex part.
Fatrelle clearly missed the entire discussion about whether people who are not cis women can call themselves feminists. General gist of that seemed to be “just don’t go all Hugo. Fucking. Schwyzer. on us” (and really, no movement needs the likes of him, it’s just particularly disgusting that he’s getting his grossness all over a movement that isn’t remotely about him)
Brain bleach! They don’t photograph well, but the cories keep shooting to the surface and back down again — they’re like tiny iridescent bullets of cuteness.
Natfantastic, yes some advice from other people who run FemSocs would be great, though I don’t have twitter…
A bit of advice about what sort of things they do, how they attract members, what sort of campaigns they run etc would be amazing. I’m still quite a new Feminist and have never started a society so it’s a tad daunting!
So, I read Cliff’s Cosmocking whenever it comes out, because in addition to being pure comedy gold there is valuable information in there.
Plot twist/spoile!: Last month Cosmo interviewed Hugo Schwyzer! To talk about women and sexuality. And presented him as an expert.
And it is every bit as bad as you are imagining right now.
And several dudes reading were like ‘but what’s the problem with Hugo Schwyzer, can’t men be feminists too?’
So, yeah.
Um, why is a man whose academic training has nothing to do with sexuality being presented as an expert on women’s sexuality in the first place? That would be stupid even if it wasn’t Hugo we were talking about.
I’m picturing it now – “Why all women secretly want to sleep with their patronizing college professor” by some guy who totally isn’t deluding himself at all.
Why, Cassandra? Because Men Know Better, duh.
And just because his advice was about crossing boundaries, performing lesbian acts for the enjoyment of the man you were with, and not being Uptight, well, um… Men Know Better!!!
Yeah, Hugo Fucking Schwyzer.
I just fucking went to try to fucking find the fucking article he fucking…
I found this instead — http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2009/07/28/can-a-feminist-read-cosmo/ (warning, you’ll start using fuck a lot)
“To state the obvious, there’s a lot of sexist, misogynistic media out there… magazines like “Vogue” or “Cosmopolitan”… — all send a troubling message about gender, about appearance, and about the capacity of any of us to find enduring happiness outside of narrowly defined roles…”
So let me do a (paid?) piece for one of those “troubling” magazines about how women should go to strip clubs. (With extra stupid when he says nonsense about “the flamboyance” of male strikers not being attractive to women…because he’s a straight/bi woman, or a gay/bi man, or a striped…or has any knowledge What. So. Fucking. Ever. about what people attracted to men think of male stripers)
…I think my rage face might’ve woken me up enough that the coffee can wait…
Yep, straight dude, you totally know what women find attractive about men. Please tell me more about your fascinating insights into how my mind works.
(I have gingerbread coffee if anyone wants to share.)
It’s like the actual definition for “paternalistic,” in a nutshell.
Hey, how about a link? Yes, a link. http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2013/01/cosmocking-february-13_16.html
I dunno, when I think of paternalism I don’t usually picture the father figure telling young women all about how they should go watch some (female) strippers, or let men come on their face in order the help the men build their self-esteem.
This may be because my father isn’t a creep.
@Historophilia
I’m super bogged down with projects at the moment but remind me in a week or so and we can find a way to swap emails to have a chat about what you need.
Maybe it’s more avuncular than paternal? That leaves lots of room for creepiness. Ew.
Since I believe Hugo is a dad I certainly hope that’s not how he talks to his kids.
@thenatfantastic, whenever you have time, it’s really kind and generous of you to offer your help
I’m annoyed as well, there’s a 1 Billion Rising event going on on campus as we speak but I can’t go as I need to start an essay
Well, by paternalistic I meant ‘no, what you say you want is totally not what you want, and I will tell you what you want.’
So in hindsight I meant abusive.
I just checked and yep, he’s got a son. I seriously hope he’s not teaching that boy any of this shit, particularly not with the smug “I’m a better feminist than you” attitude.
Once I get off my ass I’m going to make a nice dark roast with hazelnut creamer and cinnamon, which sounds like a lovely compliment to gingerbread
And hey, I neither have to get up, nor do anything, please pass the coffee Cassandra!
Gods, poor Cliff, the comments there turn into a “but why do you care more about the murder part than the suicide part!?” I mean, I know damned well ze can handle zirself, but no one should have to try to be logical in the face of that level of fucked-up-ness.
Fatrelle with a Boner: But woman feminists actually seem to prefer me over men who call themselves feminists
Go read it again. Feminists dislike dudes who are bad feminists, dudes who try to commandeer feminism more than they dislike people who are honest about being assholes.
Why? Because the honest assholes do less damage.
Good to see that Stoner has finally dropped the pretense that he’s not an MRA. Sadly he seems to have replaced it with the delusion that feminists like him.
The problem with HugoFuckingSchwyzer is that guys who aren’t feminist think he is. They think his puerile ponderings on what women want, and how the sexes ought to interact are good,because 1: it’s validating their desires, 2: a lot of feminists still give him various levels of credit.
So they convince themselves that femnism is about making their boners happy. To challenge “Hugo” is to challenge their ideas about how feminism is all about making mens’ sex lives better by removing “female repression, caused by outdated social mores”.
That this is not what feminism is about, and that more serious feminists reject it = feminists hate men/sex.
It’s also a big part of why the guys who like “HUGO” are so upset about male feminists; we are betraying the cause (i.e. the right to be dickish to women), by saying women have agency, and need to be listened to more than murderous scum.
You’re insulting scum, it feeds things, not kills them. (Granted, things here are things like snails, it I have a very nice snail & scum tank going currently [it'll house an oto once I have enough scum])
Other than my pedantry, that’s spot on. Also, I advise against reading HugoFuckingSchwyzer’s blog, unless you like getting all rage face and swearing.
Hugo is shitty, so here, have a fish that thinks scum is delicious — who’s a cute little oto?
There are different kinds of scum. Think bathtub ring.
Yeah ok, soap scum isn’t beneficial to anything.
Aloo paneer is not supposed to be this spicy (either that or my tongue’s gotten stupid about curry)
THATCORGIISSOADORABLEICAN’TSTOPSQUEEING
I had sex with a PUA, by accident. While the sex didn’t leave me feeling shitty (although it was shitty sex), his lies to me did.