With courthouse violence on the rise, Men’s Rights activists continue to lionize the author of a terrorist manifesto urging men to burn down courthouses
Poster at a memorial event for Tom Ball, an MRA who advocated burning down courthouses and police stations.
EDITED TO ADD: In the wake of the Boston Marathon bombing, it seems even more important to reinterate that influential Men’s Rights website A Voice for Men continues to host, in its “activism” section no less, a terrorist manifesto literally calling for the firebombing of courthouses and police stations. Until and unless that manifesto is removed, and A Voice for Men apologizes for hosting it, I will be linking to this post every time I mention A Voice for Men.
There has been another courthouse shooting. On Monday morning, the father of a man due in court for a child support hearing pulled out a semiautomatic handgun and shot his son’s ex wife and a friend of hers as they entered the lobby of the New Castle County Courthouse in Wilmington Delaware. After an exchange of gunfire with police that left two officers wounded, 68-year old Thomas Matusiewicz took his own life. The two women Matusiewcz shot were pronounced dead on arrival at a local hospital.
His son, David Matusiewcz, had earlier served time – an astonishingly short amount of time – for kidnapping his three girls and hiding out with them in Nicaragua for a year and a half. More details on the case here, here, and here; further news coverage here.
Unfortunately, despite increased security, violence in and around courthouses has been on the increase. There have been numerous courthouse shootings and other violent attacks across the country in recent months, from Texas to New York to Washington state. Sometimes the victims are family members; other times they’re prosecutors or judges.
A recent report published by the National Center for State Courts notes that
We live in a time when threats against judges and acts of violence in courthouses and courtrooms are occurring throughout the country with greater frequency than ever before. … Individuals and groups have committed acts of violence in courthouses, often attempts to murder judicial officials, escape from custody, and disrupt or delay proceedings. Moreover, courthouses, which represent the ideals of democracy in American society, have become symbolic targets for antigovernment extremists and terrorists (domestic and international). …
In addition to shootings, bombings, and arson attacks, there have been knifings, assaults, failed bombing attempts, suicides, bomb plots, murder-for-hire conspiracies, and much more
While shootings tend to get the most media coverage, the report notes that “arson attacks, through the use of improvised incendiary devices, have increased in number and frequency.”
That’s why it’s so worrisome that A Voice for Men, the leading Men’s Rights site outside of Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit, continues to host a terrorist manifesto urging Men’s Rights activists to literally burn down courthouses and police stations, even if doing so means that people are killed.
The manifesto, which I have written about several times previously, was written by a troubled man (and an admitted child abuser) named Tom Ball, who burned himself to death on the steps of a courthouse in New Hampshire in hopes that his death would inspire a wave of arson against courthouses and police stations. Dictionary.com defines terrorism as “the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.” And that is precisely what Ball’s manifesto advocates.
Here’s some of what he wrote, taken directly from the manifesto posted on AVFM. (I’ve put some of the more egregious passages in bold text.)
So boys, we need to start burning down police stations and courthouses. … the dirty deeds are being carried out by our local police, prosecutors and judges. These are the people we pay good money to protect us and our families. And what do we get for our tax money? Collaborators who are no different than the Vichy of France or the Quislings of Norway during the Second World War. All because they go along to get along. They are an embarrassment, the whole lot of them. And they need to be held accountable. So burn them out. …
You need to flatten them, like Wile E. Coyote. They need to be taught never to replace the rule of law. BURN-THEM-OUT!
Most of the police stations built in New England over the last 20 years are stone or brick. Fortunately, the roofs are still wood. The advantage of fire on the roof is that it is above the sprinklers. But even the sprinklers going off work to our advantage. There is no way they can work in a building with six inches of water. And I am certain we will disrupt their momentum once they start working out of a FEMA
At this point Ball’s manifesto is interrupted mid-sentence by an “editor’s note” from the folks at AVFM:
Several paragraphs in this copy of Mr Ball’s original letter have been omitted. The omitted paragraphs contained detailed instructions on the manufacture and use of simple incendiary devices.
Yes, that’s right; Ball’s original manifesto included specific instructions for constructing effective Molotov cocktails, a pretty clear indication that there was nothing figurative about his calls to “burn them out,” and that Ball literally hoped that his death, and his manifesto, would encourage a wave of arson. Indeed, that it would be the start of a literal war of Men’s Rights Activists against the US government.
Ball made clear that this war, like all wars, would mean death for some people:
There will be some casualties in this war. Some killed, some wounded, some captured. Some of them will be theirs. Some of the casualties will be ours. …
I only managed to get the main door of the Cheshire County Courthouse in Keene, NH. I would appreciate it if some of you boys would finish the job for me. They harmed my children. The place is evil. So take it out.
AVFM doesn’t have this manifesto up as a historical curiousity. AVFM posts and comments have portrayed Ball as an Men’s Rights martyr, and the manifesto is listed in AVFM’s “activism” section. Apparently throwing Molotov cocktails through courthouse windows is a form of “activism.”
Now, the official stance of the AVFM crowd is that they don’t support such violence – that they’re just predicting that more of it will occur.
Site founder Paul Elam has written:
Thomas Ball represents a tragic, dysfunctional reaction to chronic, systemic abuse. There are many possible reactions. Some even worse than his. And while we cannot, must not, condone violence, we had better learn to expect it as long as an ideological war against men is allowed to make a battlefield in our justice system and within the heart of our own families.
Then why, Paul, do you feature his manifesto in your “activism” section, alongside a link to AVFM’s “Judicial Accountability Committee?” Why do you continue to lionize the man and treat him as a martyr?
In another post, Elam further explicated his most peculiar brand of “pacifism.” (Emphasis added.)
I am a pacifist. I do not advocate violence. But I tell you this. The day I see one of these absolutely incredulous excuses for a judge dragged out of his courtroom into the street, beaten mercilessly, doused with gasoline and set afire by a father who just won’t take another moment of injustice, I will be the first to put on the pages of this website that what happened was a minor tragedy that pales by far in comparison to the systematic brutality and thuggery inflicted daily on American fathers by those courts and their police henchmen.
It would not even so much be a tragedy as the chickens coming home to roost. And it is certainly less of an indecency than the suicide of Tom Ball.
This is from a man who evidently considers himself some kind of 21st century Gandhi.
AVFM is not the only Men’s Rights site to lionize Ball; he’s been hailed by numerous MRAs, and his manifesto (in its entirely, including the Molotov cocktail portions) has been reposted all over the internet. Indeed, some MRAS have constructed an elaborate site memorializing him and his alleged heroism. A year after his death, Men’s Rights activists organized a “memorial” protest. He’s even been remembered in song.
Helen “Dr. Helen” Smith, a Men’s Rights advocate and sometime writer for the right wing PJMedia site, said this about his manifesto. (Emphasis added.)
His statement is not the ramblings of a madman, it is the mission of a warrior in some sense. He was fighting for his rights and for yours, if you are male. He was trying to bring some urgency to the male plight in this country, one that no one appreciates or cares about until they are engaged in the battle of the courts.
You can find more discussion and lionization of Ball by MRAs, Fathers’ Rights Activists and others here, here, here, here, here and here. A few minutes with Google will turn up numerous other examples.
Why do I continue to hammer on about Ball’s manifesto? Because so many in the Men’s Rights movement are motivated primarily by anger and hatred — of women, of feminists, and of those, like judges and police officers) that they see as feminist “quislings.” Because so many in the Men’s Rights movement – like the prolific writers and videomakers associated with AVFM – stoke this anger and hatred every chance they get.
It seems almost inevitable that at some point some especially angry and unbalanced Men’s Rights Activist will resort to violence – as MRAs like Elam have “predicted” again and again. (Indeed, we’re probably lucky that Ball did not choose to “take out” others before taking his own life.) This violence may well be directed against a judge or prosecutor or some other official seen as a feminist or feminist “collaborator.” When and if this violence occurs, no doubt the folks at AVFM will officially “lament” it – and then come up with elaborate explanations as to why it’s all really the fault of feminists. Indeed, in the posts of his I quoted above, Elam has already written what are in essence apologias for this violence, even before it has happened.
If the Men’s Rights movement wants to be seen as anything other than a hate group, MRAs need to stop lionizing the author of a terrorist manifesto, and they need to start criticizing those in their movement who make excuses for the violence that they so often warn us is inevitable.
Posted on February 12, 2013, in a voice for men, advocacy of violence, antifeminism, custody, domestic violence, grandiosity, hate, misogyny, MRA, not-quite-explicit threats, oppressed men, paranoia, paul elam, sympathy for murderers, terrorism, your time will come and tagged a voice for men, antifeminism, courthouse shooting, men's rights, terrorism, tom ball. Bookmark the permalink. 135 Comments.
Wait. Of all the reasons to bitch about 50 Shades of Grey… they choose THAT? That’s like going to a feast of sewage and bitching about the tablecloth!
But they’re not going to complain about the rapey notions, the male control, or the virgin-to-instant-sex-expert stuff, are they? Of course they’re going to whine that Grey isn’t some sort of loser asshole (aka poor beta NiceGuy™) getting to abuse some Hot Babe.
50 Shades (yes, I read it, or at least skimmed it – there is not enough brain bleach in the WORLD) is so horrendously written that no conclusions can be drawn from it except that it is a horrendous piece of writing. The characters, both male and female, bear no resemblance to anything but the most shallow and facile representation of a human being; the sex is literally unbelievable, not to mention ridiculous and physically implausible; and don’t get me started on the grammatical errors, poor sentence construction, and lack of any coherent plot.
A 100 page Harlequin published in 1982 would be better written than that drivel. I can’t even use the “at least people are reading something” excuse for it.
Sorry, I feel very strongly about that piece of slop. No one should be using it to conclude anything at all except that the author is laughing all the way to the bank, and that the general public’s standard of reading material has fallen to an all-new low.
My summary of the prose of 50 Shades of Grey:
“Holy crap, oh my, I flush at his grey eyes, oh my, holy crap, he touches me down there and I flush, holy crap, oh my, what kinky fuckery is this, Fifty Shades, oh my, my inner goddess does the macarena, oh my, holy crap, we sizzle, my subconcious disapproves, holy crap, Fifty Shades, oh my.”
^ That’s basically a 50SoG sex scene with all the creepy shit removed.
And there’s the fact that EL James is a despicable human being:
And then there’s THIS.
And loads of sex toy companies are selling kink equipment and toys under the 50SoG name… this is the first time in my life I’ve ever been slightly ashamed to be kinky.
I had a far rantier piece of comment that explained why EL James is despicable but basically she calls people who tell her that 50SoG is abuse propaganda ‘trolls’ and that they are trivialising domestic abuse and many of the people who say these things ARE abuse survivors who got triggered by the books.
http://slightlylessthaninsane.wordpress.com/2013/02/02/what-just-happened/
There’s this from http://www.booksnreview.com/articles/1799/20121208/author-fifty-shades-grey-el-james-talks.htm
It was all properly HTML’d but it was eaten.
WHY ARE MY POSTS BEING EATEN?!
*test post*
Oh, that one got through.
I had a far rantier piece of comment that explained why EL James is despicable but basically she calls people who tell her that 50SoG is abuse propaganda ‘trolls’ and that they are trivialising domestic abuse and many of the people who say these things ARE abuse survivors who got triggered by the books.
http://slightlylessthaninsane.wordpress.com/2013/02/02/what-just-happened/
There’s this from http://www.booksnreview.com/articles/1799/20121208/author-fifty-shades-grey-el-james-talks.htm
It was all properly HTML’d but it was eaten.
@Ellex
EL James is pretty nasty piece of work, she calls critics ‘trolls’ and says they are ‘trivialising domestic violence’ even though many of those critics were abuse survivors who were triggered by reading those books.
@Creative (oh look what your handle shortens to…so cool)
Yeah, I’ve heard that about Ms James. Having read for myself what crap she writes, though, I try to avoid reading anything about her personally.
The sad thing is how many women have just eaten it up like it’s the best thing since sliced cheese when there’s actually some really excellent porn – even BDSM porn – out there if you know where/how to look for it (hint: it’s in the fanfiction – just not the Twilight fanfiction).
GET OUT OF MY STATE MRAS! Last time I went to Keene to visit old friends I walked by that court house and realized that two of my least favorite groups of people, MRAs and Juggalos, have been responsible for two of the few significant violent crimes in a very non-violent area. It’s the type of place where people don’t lock their doors at night, I used to leave my keys in my unlocked car in the driveway, etc. And these disgusting humans completely ruin the area’s feeling of safety.
Also, that governments get girlfriends guy is PISSED at me, haha
http://governmentsgetgirlfriends.wordpress.com/2013/02/11/jessay-the-stupid-retard-saying-really-retarded-stuff/
Creepy d00d is creepy!
And just to talk about this whole people using children as ways to hurt people thing, I’m going through something similar right now. This will be tl;dr but it just happened and it’s ridiculous. It’s not an MRA, but the family of my brother’s gf who just had his baby. They totally remind me of these MRA’s. They project all their own parental insecurities onto my mom and blame us for the pregnancy. They tried to force her to get an abortion when she first got pregnant so she fled to our house to get away from their abusive behavior. My mother’s been taking all financial responsibility for her while her mother tries to buy her love by taking her to get her hair and nails done. She can’t throw some money my mom’s way for food, oh no. Because she wants to stick it to my mom.
Now that the baby is here she’s using it like an accessory. Gloating about him on facebook and trying to come off as grammy of the year (same woman who wanted him aborted). She wouldn’t leave the hospital and was being so controlling, making my brother uncomfortable and on edge. Their whole family was being snooty to my mother in the waiting room and telling her my little brother should apologize to them for doing this to their daughter. She was in the hospital for that big blizzard that hit New England but her and my brother were safe there. But the mother insisted on going to the hospital just to throw her weight around. The night before she had left a facebook comment on a picture of the baby saying thank god he looks like her daughter and not my brother. A totally unnecessary dig at him to get under his skin. So he said something back, telling her to knock it off, that he is the father and he will be there for his child, etc. She had the nerve to call and yell at her daughter about it as if my brother was out of line and she wasn’t, her daughter having just given birth and already showing signs of postpartum, to further put stress on them and make him feel uncomfortable at the hospital. So my step father had to go out in the snow storm to pick him up because he was trying to be mature and he knew he couldn’t handle being around her another day.
Then later they discharged her from the hospital and the mother went to pick her up but refused to bring her to our house (where she lives) because “it would be too painful to see him torn away by those people” So she created a situation where they had to drag a newborn baby out in the middle of a blizzard TWICE IN ONE DAY just so that she could inconvenience my mother. In the days since she has been calling and verbally abusing her daughter, guilt tripping her, etc. Had her grandmother do it too. Refuses to help her buy formula and diapers because she claims my family should have to pay for all the baby’s needs. Again, choosing to neglect the baby as a way to stick it to my mother. Meanwhile she’s spending all this money on a huge party (these people have been exposing their children to drunk people all their lives through these huge parties they constantly hold) that she insists on having to show off her new grandchild. Yeah, great idea, expose a newborn to a bunch of drunk people all at once during flu season. That’s a priority. Spend money on food to host a party, not on formula.
I am at my wits end with these people and my brother’s gf is so used to neglect and abuse that she keeps running back to them. I don’t know what to do. But anyways, this entire conversation reminded me of this. It makes me sick to see people treat children like objects and neglect their needs in an attempt to hurt their ex or someone else.
Aw maaaaan, he writes about you but not me? What do I have to do to get on his blog?
(Maybe he just doesn’t have anything to say about me because I pretty much drew an accurate dramatization of events he says happened.)
Someone really needs to introduce government girlfriends dude to the concept of editing. Damn, that guy is wordy.
His writing is the least of his problems, alas.
Kind of creepy how he keeps doing long rambling posts about things that people here have said. There’s definitely a correlation between extreme misogyny and lack of respect for other people’s boundaries. Like, dude, you were banned, deal.
Haha, well I wrote a post on tumblr about him which got exactly no attention so maybe if you do the same he’ll counter your post with point for point proof of what I accused him of with simultaneous denial. I imagine at least one person clicked through a link from my post and it showed up on his stat counter alerting him to the fact that I was talking about him. Either that or he sets google alerts for himself. Either way it’s all very sad and embarrassing. This guy needs some sort of baby sitter (a male to prevent him from propositioning him) to keep him on a leash. I’m over here in awe at how he can claim incel and then post about having two dates in one day a few days later. Dude, incel is not the government or your parent’s fault, you’ve had plenty of opportunities and still have them. The problem is you. Example: statements like, “My way of thinking is like this – I will be relaxed with the fat girl, knowing I’ll have a date with the prettier one later. That could make the fat girl attracted to me and give me more confidence with the prettier girl.” pretty much guarantee your lack of success. Stuff like this makes me wish I had the time and technology to dox someone because local women need to be warned.
Didn’t someone say recently that Mr-virginity-is-killing-me-oh-the-sex-I-had-in-the-last-six-months-doesn’t-count is from a country where arranged marriages were (or maybe still are) pretty much a cultural norm?
If that’s the case, it sounds like his unfortunate parents have said “Nuh-uh. We’re not wasting our time trying to con anyone into taking this kid on.”
If he is from a culture that does arranged marriages I would like to take this moment to thank his parents for choosing not to inflict him on any of the young women in their social circle. That may be a self-protective thing in that they’d no doubt hear from the family of anyone he was matched with if he kept on being, well, himself, but on the other hand it must be tempting at this point to do just about anything to get him out of their house. So kudos to them for doing the responsible thing.
This whole “I’ll die if I don’t fuck and masturbation doesn’t count” myth – or the “I can’t be responsible for my actions” version we see most often – I’ve no surprise left in me that some men buy it, because of what a strong and old cultural meme it is, but I still can’t get my head around the individuals who really buy it.
Hmm, that came out convoluted.
It suits skeevy men to “believe” and certainly promote the idea, but blokes like this, if they genuinely believe they can’t live … well, hello, they’re alive and wasting internet bandwidth, doesn’t that say something? Or that creeptastic specimen Simon who hung out here a couple of years back, blathering about his “overwhelming urges” like he’s the only bloke in the world in space who’s ever felt them. It’s like … dude, are you going along with this because it suits you, or are you brainwashed, or fuckin’ stupid, or what?
Oh, and I see why B___ got banned. Or should have, whatever the actual reason was. The boredom, the boredom! He’d have to be one of the dullest trolls of the lot, even giving Boring Schtickwit a run for his money.
There must be a monastery somewhere they can bribe to take him on … somewhere nice and remote and with no internet.
Obsession with WW2 and the Eastern Front in particular – is he maybe Russian? If so then he’s being extra ridiculous in expecting his parents to find him a girlfriend, because that’s not a culture that does arranged marriages.
Also! If he is Russian then he should definitely start sending his letters off to various government agencies, they could use a good laugh.
Just as long as Pierre’s not doing a stint in any of those offices!
After all he could. Quebecois is close to French is related to Spanish is the same as Russian.
Actually he says he’s in a small country, so not Russia. And I think Pierre would be just perfect as a recipient for those letters – he could use them to line Poutine’s litter box.
ROFL! So he could!
BTW I found a new “incel” blog to mock via Mr give me comfort women now.
http://survivingincel.wordpress.com/
So, another one who straight-out wants to buy women. Because you can bet your britches he isn’t talking about those “honest transactions” meaning a woman can demand a man as her domestic/sex slave. I’m surprised these jerks haven’t started complaining they don’t get dowries handed over like in the good ol’ days.
‘Sfunny, I’ve been “incel” all my life and yet never wrote to the gummint demanding a substitute Mr, or told my parents they had to provide me with one or else, or demanded some guy hand his life over to me regardless of his feelings. But then I guess since I’m a woman I don’t feel the Overwhelming Sex Drive these guys do, even though I’m possessed of one of those strange, world-ruling powerful sets of ladybits.
I actually like it when they openly admit that their problem with feminism is that it’s made it harder to force women to fuck you because it’s the only way for the women to survive. It’s nice when someone makes your argument for you.
For a techie he’s not exactly a shining example of good logic either.
A lot of Asian American women were born right here in America. How are they supposed to have “stayed in Asia”, by putting their mom in a time machine on the way to the maternity ward?
Also I love how guys like this constantly bury little nuggets of extreme violence in the middle of even their rants.
Um, what? Did America ever have the death penalty for adultery?
Jayzuz, he’s well on the way to being Meller Mark 2. I suppose all the people who can’t get to gyms have to come up with some sort of excuse, and those who cannot use them for health reasons of whatever kind would be done away with in his little dystopia. He’s even further off the planet than the late unlamented Mr Hubbard.
But like you, I’d rather they came out with their shit openly. Only trouble is, they still think they’re the voices of sweet reason. What was it you said the other day, that the MRM should really be called Make Rape Legal? I originally thought MRA stood for Male Rape Apologist/Advocate (in the sense of advocating for rape, not for victims).
Which of course was right, in the spirit if not the letter(s) of the name.
Whoot, 10.30 here. Niters all!
The fact that anyone would even want a relationship that their partner was forced into by financial need is just so sad. It’s not exactly aiming high, you know?
I’m also amused by this dude’s constant insistence that women claim not to care about looks. I’ve certainly encountered some women who don’t care that much about looks, but I know far more who openly admit that they do care and wouldn’t date anyone they weren’t attracted to. It’s a constant theme with anti-feminist guys, this thing where they see a societal assumption or piece of unrealistic “conventional wisdom” that pisses them off and assume that feminists are the cause.
The whole “women don’t want you to know that they often pick sexual partners based on the way said sexual partners look!” thing is the dumbest conspiracy theory I’ve heard in a while.
I’m catching up and then going back to bed (spent the night babysitting to my loaches while they got dewormed) — kitteh, I had guessed/hoped that GGG was trying to turn cultural arranged marriages into gov’n arranged dates, but I have absolutely no evidence that that’s the case. Just a desire for this to make an iota of sense.
“Disgusting statement. How many incels who show “extreme warning signs of rapists and abusers” has this retarded scum ever met? Me? Of course, I show these signs by doing “horrible acts” like attacking extreme criminals, trying to convince a girl to have sex with me after she already said yes but rejected it or posting her picture without a name after she changed her mind just to refuse again (a move she later described as done for fun and to torture me, the fact that scum like emilygoddess never commented on because it didn’t fit her bullshit, just like the fact she wanted to be in a relationship with me after it happened).”
Um…idfk, dude, yes, exactly by doing those things.
Shit, I got mod-queued by quoting GGG directly, whoops! Let me try this again!
“Disgusting statement. How many incels who show “extreme warning signs of rapists and abusers” has this r___ scum ever met? Me? Of course, I show these signs by doing “horrible acts” like attacking extreme criminals, trying to convince a girl to have sex with me after she already said yes but rejected it or posting her picture without a name after she changed her mind just to refuse again (a move she later described as done for fun and to torture me, the fact that scum like emilygoddess never commented on because it didn’t fit her bullshit, just like the fact she wanted to be in a relationship with me after it happened).”
Yes, that’s exactly how you show warning signs (though really, that’s more like a neon sign)
“They made me do it by killing me for 10 years. I’m sorry you’re such a fool that you think I can find somebody myself or not be bothered about it, which is blatantly against human nature. Why would I be committed? You’re not the first idiot who expressed the desire for me to be commited but the only true commital which would make any kind of difference is a permament one or close to permanent. And the only way I could be committed for a long time or life is by being chained up – otherwise, what’s to stop me from harming anybody if I’m not getting out anywhere and will thus never get a girlfriend? It’s just not gonna happen unless I do something big. And I have no intention of doing anything but writing a book for now.”
Um…
Have I mentioned that GGG scares me?
Jessay — your brother’s GF’s family sounds like a bunch of real winners themselves. Sorry y’all have to put up with that, especially with a newborn (and thus utter lack of sleep, etc). As for the blizzard, holy fuck, I refused to go out in it (not much point when there’s 40-fucking-inches of snow) — but a newborn?! I don’t even…goddamn that’s stupid.
Shorter: The government must make it ILLEGAL for anyone to displease my boner!
One the one hand he seems like he might go postal. On the other hand, he’s such a whiny drama monster that it’s hard to take him seriously.
I do kind of want to just go “that’s nice dear, when you get tired of holding your breath I’ll be in the other room” — but he’s not 5, and threatening other people, so my alarm bells go off.
That body fat percentage? Those numbers are silly enough that you could have an eating disorder and still not meet them. I somehow doubt that mandatory gym attendance and other legally enforced body standards would help any. Of course, fool here is more concerned about his potential date being 20 lbs overweight than dangerously underweight. Ribs and spines are hawt right?
…where’d I see him say something about women being 15+ lbs overweight being undateable ? (Probably right next to how he’d date anyone who wasn’t a “600 lb whale”…)
The body fat percentage he’s quoting is lower than is usual among Olympic athletes in the more energetic sports. It’s nonsense, basically.
I think we have our wires crossed about which dude we’re talking about though? Mr let’s execute people for adultery is ridiculous, but he doesn’t ping my “this person may be an immediate danger to those around them” buttons the way government girlfriends dude does.
I don’t mean the one he’s stating that the government should enforce (on which – sorry, dude, but you can’t outsource your motivation to work out to the Feds), I mean the bit where he’s saying men should aim for 5% body fat. That’s really unusually low, even for a pro athlete.
Wires crossed = check!
I thought that was GGG, but I’m pre-coffee and spent the night with 3 hour alarms to check in the loaches (considering they don’t take medication well, deworming went smoothly, here’s hoping the damned chemical came in time to save the sicker of them)
…no sleep + no coffee = I make no sense and drop EA jokes (rusty steel syringe, check!)…I’m gonna go make coffee I think >.<
My first bit above — “that’s nice dear” — is how GGG would strike me if less threatening. And yes, that body fat percentage is absurd (can women with “fatty sacks” even have that little body fat? Or, if possible, her boobs would be on the small side and thus she’d probably still not be attractive to this sort?)
From some of the references the second guy is dropping I’m guessing he’s Japanese American, which is probably playing into his idea of what a hot guy has to look like. To put that in perspective, here is bigtime Japanese celebrity lust object, who likes to tell everyone all about how he’s only 6% body fat.
Thing is, whiny dude seems to live in America, and most women here really don’t expect men to be that thin.
(Not a critique of the guy in the commercial – he looks great. I just don’t think a body fat percentage goal that low is either realistic for most men or something that’s expected of them.)
GGG really does sit right on that line between eye-rollingly absurd and WTF did you just say worrying.
5 percent? Barring certain abnormal/extremely atypical metabolisms, that’s not healthy. I, who have a little more than that (in the 8 percent range) routinely have doctors who want to do tests to see if I have secondary health issues causing/caused by it.
Body fat isn’t a healthy/unhealthy marker. Being low is often worse than being a little high, because you need that fat to manage your metabolism/systemic health.
GGG scares the shit out of me. I think Pecunium said he was in Croatia.
I told him to run for office, there’s not enough batshittery in politics these days. His sarcasm meter is busted, surprise, surprise.
Look on the bright side. If he does run for office he’ll make a lot of local reporters very happy, because snark is fun to write.
I think the world or his immediate area should know just how Not Right he is.
A round of mockery from his local media would also do him good.
Hey, at least this guy isn’t using BMI! His ridiculously low numbers at least address body fat directly. Evil, evil body fat… taking all his girlfriends…
Incel underpants gnomes logic.
1. Get government to enforce 15% body fat limit on men.
2. Immediately get arrested for breaking said limit.
3. ?
4. Lots of sex with hot chicks.
I think that we can all expect a particular surge of incel rage today…
also, hi everybody >_>
I’m assuming 5% was a typo as the blockquoted BS says 15% — but even that seems either genetic or difficult of a “fuck it, not happening just to please your boner” level difficulty. (A quick googling here is suggesting that <18% for females isn’t even safe, and <15% for males in the “so you’re a bodybuilder?” category)
And, ok, you want to be a bodybuilder? (And/or look like Criminal Mind’s Morgan? [daaaammn]) Have fun with that? Consult a doctor before starting any fitness related program? Or whatever that standard line is.
Demanding it of anyone and everyone just to please your boner? Hope you enjoy killing off the species, pretty sure <18% body fat and pregnancy don’t really go so well together.
Cassandra — GACKT? Get out of my iTunes! That aside, yeah, he’s quite slender.
Re: GGG — yeah, his local area should probably know that he might turn violent, particularly the women he might try to date (then again, maybe they already do and that’s [part of] why he’s single)
I really feel for his parents, too. Nobody should have to live with that.
I believe the 5% was his comment on what men should aim for in order to maximize the number of women who want to fuck them? Hopefully a typo, because otherwise he’s not exactly plugged in to the American mainstream.
Aim for 5%!? By living in the gym, meth, or genetic restructuring?!
And good point about GGG’s parents, I’d somehow forgotten about the part where they declined to press charges when he assaulted? them. I could find details but I already did his blog and HugoFuckingSchwyzer’s once each, that’s enough for one day (more like one lifetime!)
Great, now I’m thinking about that college PE requirement that graded me on my BMI.
Not to make the thread about me, but that was some shaming shit right there.
Yes, yes it was. Closest I ever had was a pass/fail course that measured periodically in relation to your previous measurement, not some generic baseline >.<
grades on BMI… Bullshit. I can slack off the entire term and be at the same point I started. If I worked out (like mad) I could increase it. There isn’t anything healthy I can do to decrease it.
@Jessay
I am really sorry for what you and your family and your brother’s girlfried are going through, but I am really uncomfortable with this:
There is a world of difference between not wanting a potential baby carried to term and loving the eventual baby. Just as a woman can want an abortion, either change her mind or be unable to get one, and be a wonderful loving mother, I believe that a woman can think that abortion is the best option for someone else (although she should never be as pushy and controlling as the girlfriend’s mother was/is), but still end up being a loving grandmother. There are plenty of signs that the grandmother is a horrible person including how she approached the issued of abortion, but merely having believed that abortion was the best option is NOT one if them.
(My comment also applies to everyone who is not a woman as well, but I wanted to address the grandmother issue directly so I talked specifically about women.)
The “women secretly date men for looks!” thing is so laughable for another reason – the looks aren’t what the MRAs think they are. They seem to think there’s one cast-iron rule for what’s beautiful or handsome; that only those narrow limits can be considered attractive; and that everyone follows those rules (except their noble selves, of course). Thing is, handsome =/= attractive, and what any given person might think is good looking or attractive can cover quite a range, as well as being very different from what the next person thinks. Very basic stuff, but the MRAs either can’t or (more probably) refuse to get it. Small example: saw a guy recently who I thought very nice looking. And the first thing that caught my attention? He was overweight; I noticed him simply because he was a big guy. The second thing, what made me think “He’s really nice looking” was that he had beautiful eyes. Would the MRAs believe a woman could look at a fat man and think he’s good-looking? I bet they wouldn’t. Or they’d say we were lying, because they judge everyone’s honesty by their own.
See, I think the former sounds dangerous too. Imagine if he was dating someone who cheated on him.
I’ve been wondering what would happen if an MRA was to win custody- here are a few examples which ran through my head:
MRA’S DAUGHTER: Dad- my boyfriend dumped me…
MRA DAD: Serves you right for getting on the Alpha Male Cock Carousel- maybe you should have turned down the captain of the football team and saved yourself for a Nice Guy instead… and now you’re Damaged Goods you’re not going to find a husband and become a good wifey so you’re no good to me anymore… get the fuck out of my house…
MRA’S DAUGHTER: Dad… I think I might be pregnant…
MRA DAD: Serves you right for being a slut… and no, I won’t pay for an abortion- you have to learn to live with the Consequences. Don’t even think about asking the father for money, you filthy spermjacker- men should have the right to shirk Consequences… in fact, don’t even ask ME for money- I’m stopping your allowance right now, and throwing you out of the house…
MRA’S SON: Dad- I asked a girl to the prom and she said no…
MRA DAD: Son, let me tell you something: rejection is just a powerful tool women use to belittle us men. Who cares if she already has a prom date- this is personal and it’s also an attack on all of mankind, coordinated from Feminism HQ. What you need to do is ask her again, and if she says “no” just drag her back here and force yourself upon her- it’ll be fine, she’s clearly asking for it by being hot and not wearing a sack every day. When she makes the inevitable false rape complaint, don’t worry- I’ll think up an alibi and back you up all the way. In any case we’ll punish this cunt for daring to think she didn’t owe you infinite gratitude for the offer of your boner.
MRA’s offspring (of any gender): I always thought you were an arsehole, Dad. Thanks for confirming it for me.
Just what I’ve always wanted, a non-romantic transaction to determine who I will spend the rest of my life with. Sounds dreamy.
And why so much focus on weight? How can an incel seriously be picky about body fat percentages of other people? How exactly are we going to go about creating a world where everyone, even those with genes that cause them to store more fat than others, can get down to his expectation of an ideal %? How about subsidizing HEALTHY FOOD, which is the root of the problem in many cases, that healthy food is too expensive and difficult to acquire for many lower income people who don’t have easy access to supermarkets? And are women going to be paid for their time in the gym? I damn sure don’t have the time to hit the gym daily and work out to the point where I have a super tight body. Most working people don’t. There’s problem number two, living in a society where the minimum wage is so low that people have to work overtime in order to make ends meet, leaving them exhausted and unable to be active on their down time. But like, don’t focus on the societal reasons why so many people are overweight. Just force women, specifically, into gyms and plastic surgery offices to make the women you encounter more pleasing to the eye.
@Argenti yeah, it’s tough but ultimately we’re doing what’s right by the baby which is the most important thing. We have to swallow our pride a lot in not going off on her because we don’t want her to have any ammo to use against us in the event that maybe she’d try to sue for custody or something ridiculous like that. I wouldn’t put it past her. I just feel really bad for the gf. We’re in that position where we know she has an unhealthy relationship with her family that is clear as day but are helpless until she decides to cut them off or stand up to them. I was kinda surprised the hospital discharged her in that storm btw, but I guess they are hurting for money and probably didn’t have the budget to keep her an extra night or something.
@Some Gal, I can understand that coming off as cold, but I didn’t quite express the extent of the pressure. I’m not just talking about trying to convince her to get an abortion (which is not her place to begin with), but threatening her, punishing her, trying to bribe her, and making her clean the cat box (there is a specific illness that pregnant women can pick up from cat feces that will cause miscarriage). This woman wasn’t simply looking out for her daughter’s best interests in wanting her to finish school or something, and is currently not looking out for the baby’s best interest by refusing to help unless it’s done on her terms (the daughter moves back in with her, breaks up with my brother, refuses us rights to see the baby, and is under her complete control). We’re dealing with a very sick individual here. I don’t believe that considering abortion makes you a bad parent/grandparent, and so that came out wrong, but bullying and abusing someone who refuses one, no, just no. I don’t buy the act.