Science Proves that Men Going Their Own Way Don’t Go Anywhere, Really

mgtowscreencap

I highlighted that one big word.

If you ever wonder what a bunch of dudes who are Going Their Own Way and totally don’t give a good gosh darn about women, nosireebob, like to talk about the most on their special Men Only No Girls Allowed We’re Totally Going Our Own Way forum, well now you don’t have to rely on the comments I so cavalierly cherry pick from their forum.

Nope, I just realized we can use SCIENCE, in the form of the tag clouds that the site puts above the various subforums, to SCIENTIFICALLY see what they talk about. If you cast your glance upwards, for example, you’ll see the tag cloud for the most active forum on the site.

Seems like these Men Going Their Own Way haven’t gone very far, huh?

I’m guessing the National Organization for Women spends less time talking about women than they do.

EDITED TO ADD: If you would prefer to hear this post read aloud by an actual Man Going His Own Way, one of them has helpfully prepared this video. It’s an uncanny impersonation, by the way. They showed me, I guess!

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Posted on June 21, 2013, in manginas, MGTOW and tagged . Bookmark the permalink. 128 Comments.

  1. Somebody wake me if Asher says anything original.

  2. Asher: The regressive nature of state and local taxes, by income, says nothing about the welfare state as a transfer of resources from men to women.

    Whut? If taxes at the state level are regressive then those with the least income are paying the most. Those whom you say are getting money from the state (supposedly women, but I’ve yet to see any evidence from you on that, so I have my doubts) are paying those regressive taxes.

    Which means either the “welfare state” is an elaborate scam to move money from men to “The State”, in the form of a system designed to make them think it’s women getting it (and so furthering social misogyny like yours; because you can’t see the real agenda), or women are paying more than men.

    If the former (the elaborate scheme) who is ending up with the money? Men; because last I checked they weren’t being marginalised in politics.

    So, either way, much to my surprise, you are wrong.

  3. Troll’s gonna troll, but:

    Asher-

    Interestingly, I’m on my 5 min. break from writing a research paper on the FTP and CCC, and the post-WWII GI bill. As a welfare state scholar, you will know that New Deal welfare programs stem from veteran programs and were issued in men camps where women were excluded. The logic was that by giving money to men, the women would get help by proxy. However, the FTP got a reputation of making people into perverts (translation: gay), so it was shut down in 1935. Camp rape of men on welfare was seen as hilarious because it made them into women. In other words, male welfare were seen as what you would call a mangina, even though women didn’t have access to benefits.

    The welfare state was created for the benefit of men, completely excluded women and those with ‘gender inversion’ (New Deal era) or ‘homosexual tendencies’ (post-WWII). Homosexual tendencies did not necessarily mean same-sex attractions, it was completely arbitrary. The welfare state was created to establish top down regulations on ‘traditional’ gender roles. They used exactly your arguments to exclude women from the public sphere to exclude gay men from society (gay men do not participate in society because the state excludes them. Since they do not ‘participate’ (but pay taxes), they should be penalized).

    So your welfare state = benefit of women assumption is a big fail. I know it’s convenient for you, but it’s just not based on reality.

    I’m glad to learn you support wage equality and men’s fair participation in private chores though.

  4. Female’s even at similar participation rates make highly different career choices than men

    Level 1 Snark unlocked at the use of “female” to refer to women, but “men” to refer to…men

    Level 2 Snark unlocked at “Female’s” meant to be a plural

    Level 3 Snark unlocked at unsubstantiated/vague assertion

    GO ASHER GO! YOU CAN DO IT! YOU CAN WIN ALL THE SNARKS!

  5. @David – FYI Tumblr has the draft posts up too. You may want to delete those posts.

  6. So your welfare state = benefit of women assumption is a big fail. I know it’s convenient for you, but it’s just not based on reality.

    Maude, thanks bunches for bringing real facts into the discussion. When Asher’s talking I feel like we kind of actually lose facts already in the discussion…..

  7. Also, more citations to Asher.

    As The Number Of Female Breadwinners Grows, Women Are Still Stuck With The Housework

    And he worries about the welfare state transferring wealth to them? Pffffft.

    For situations such as this was the phrase ‘disconnected from reality’ invented.

  8. I find it funny that the word next largest to WOMEN (besides MEN) is DON’T. I don’t know exactly what that might mean but it is funny.

  9. Just so we’re keeping track, the evidence of male oppression now includes:

    1. Men getting paid more than women
    2. Men getting paid more than women for doing the same job
    3. Male workers being seen as essential, female workers as disposable
    4. Men not being expected to do housework or childcare
    5. Fewer men than women living in poverty

    It’s so hard. A tear.

  10. and #6: men having the freedom to choose how to prioritize their work/life balance and actively selecting to make work more important than their family & personal life

  11. becausescience

    What I tell the average young guy who doesn’t look like he has the station to really make it is to make it his life’s goal to expend as little effort as possible to fund the welfare state.

    So the plan is pretty much for guys to sit around all day whining online about women, do little else because you might accidentally end up contributing to the welfare state, and wait for civilization to collapse because THAT’LL SHOW THOSE WHORES NOT TO GIVE ME SEX I WAS ENTITLED TO FOR BEING SUCH A NICE GUY?

    If there’s a Wikipedia page for “harebrained scheme”, can we get it to automatically redirect to a page for MGTOW?

  12. @bookdragonette: “You’d think they talk about something else than the one thing they’re going out of their way to avoid. How about golf? Or chess? Or the latest book they read?”

    That’s assuming these guys have any interests other than hating on women. So far, there’s little evidence to suggest it.

    @dustydeste: those stockings are amazing! And like Amnesia, I am now looking at my winter legs and thinking “Inadequate!”

    Still, my toes are making a great effort to be hobbit-curly.

  13. thebionicmommy

    Women tend to choose professions where they can shape their work around their life. Men tend to order their life around their professions. A few years ago I ran into the stat that the average male orthodontist makes almost twice the income of the average female orthodontist. Why? Simple. Because male orthodontists keep the same practice longer and see more patients.

    When home life disrupts work life, it’s usually the mom who has to leave work. Let’s say the two orthodontists are a straight, married couple. Their children are at school and daycare while they are at the dental office. Uh oh, the school just called and their daughter has 102 fever and a rash. Guess who leaves work to get the daughter? Mom does. That means Mom doesn’t get as many pay raises, chances for promotion, and might be first in line to be laid off during cut backs, all because she is “unreliable” for having to leave work occasionally.

    I don’t know how you turned that around to be oppression of men. That’s one heck of a stretch. After all, Dad never left work, he is reliable, so his career can continue advancing at the expense of his wife. In the future, if they get a divorce, he has a better financial situation while she wouldn’t be as well off as him. Granted, she does have a good job as an orthodontist in your hypothetical here. Even so, we’re comparing apples to apples, a dad orthodontist to a female orthodontist.

    Somebody wake me if Asher says anything original.

    Your nap will be longer than Rip Van Winkle’s then.

    As The Number Of Female Breadwinners Grows, Women Are Still Stuck With The Housework

    The book Second Shift talks a lot about this, too. One of the facts that I think is sad is straight women in relationships do the majority of housework and childcare even when their husbands are househusbands or stay at home dads. That’s how hardwired these social rules are for women doing it all at home. Then if the breadwinner wife comes home to a dirty house and kids needing meals and baths, she is a meanie NAG for complaining that the SAHD spent his entire day playing video games. How dare she ask for a hand because she’s tired!

    I’m sure Asher could explain how that proves women oppress men, though. After all, she did nag rather than cheerfully wait on him after her long day at work.

  14. Wow. Asher just made my brain explode, with the whole, “men are oppressed because they’re making more money, and thus are being forced to pay more taxes.” I’m flabbergasted.

    Just wow. Put a bow on it, will ya?

  15. I want some of that oppression, LBT.

  16. Yeah, I kind of came to the conclusion that cleaning the apartment was more fun than butting my head against that particular wall… and thus I had no excuse not to do so. Sparkly living space, yay!

  17. Between cats and dust bunnies, I have a furry living space. :P

  18. I figure a husband is enough animals in the house for me :P I mean, to be fair, he gets hair everywhere.

  19. RE: MaudeLL

    Man, so do I.

    In other news, me and hubby might be celebrating our anniversary at Faerie Camp Destiny, which far as I can tell is like eco camping for radical queers. Can I just say AWESOME?

  20. I figure a husband is enough animals in the house for me :P I mean, to be fair, he gets hair everywhere.

    It’s amazing, isn’t it? My dad takes two weeks to get a 5 o’clock shadow, so I had no idea what I was getting into marrying an Italian.

  21. I have solved the housework problem by finding a guy with the exact same mess tolerance that I have. So when there is housework to be done, we do it together, and most of the time we play video games together. :)

    @kitteh: me too. I think one day the dust bunnies will become sentient.

  22. @katz – I somehow managed to marry the one Italian who can’t grow non-patchy facial hair to save his life, but he makes up for it with the long luscious locks on his head. Which then break off and end up all over my things, haha.

    @kim – Me too, pretty much; we’re plenty content to live in filth, but we’re having dinner guests tomorrow so we’re attempting to make the apartment look like civilized people live in it :D

  23. I haven’t read the comments yet, so forgive me if this has been addressed, but the next-largest word in the cloud is “don’t”.

    So, they’re obsessed with women and “don’t”. Grrlz and being told “no”. Huh.

  24. @katz: “My dad takes two weeks to get a 5 o’clock shadow, so I had no idea what I was getting into marrying an Italian.”

    Blue-tinged sandpaper, ah joy. :D

    @Kim: “I think one day the dust bunnies will become sentient.”

    ::looks around nervously:: I’m surprised ours haven’t already.

  25. Over at Babble courtesy of Disney, is a raving review of a book that covers most of the standard MRA talking points. Which is all fine and good, except for how the Mr. goes all panda sad face over poor Thomas Ball. I quote….

    ” In the introduction, before the book really begins, she relates the story of Thomas Ball, a man who burned himself to death on the steps in front of a Family Court building to protest his treatment by that court.

    Have you heard his name before? On the other hand, have you heard the names Susan Smith and Andrea Yates? There’s something wrong when a mother who murders her children can get more sympathy than a man who kills himself to protest the unfair treatment he received in Family Court. Dr. Smith uses the Ball case to set the table for the rest of the book, demonstrating that men are not heard in our family courts, their needs are not addressed in our modern society, and their worth is not only not recognized, but actively denigrated.”

    OH BOY. 9_9

    http://www.babble.com/babble-voices/a-complementary-angle-rich-hailey/are-men-on-strike-or-are-we-being-fired/

  26. Someone reading your words in a silly voice totally disproves your thesis, especially if JtO comments (and now I am really going to sleep!):

  27. MEZ – I take it there’s no mention of Ball being a child abuser and terrorism advocate in all that sad-face pity for him … gakk.

  28. Cloudiah, how’d you even find that?!

    I added it to the post.

    I like that JtO’s comment is completely obtuse and humorless.

    Q: How many John the Others does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

    A: Lightbulb jokes are a pseudo-intellectual justification for cultivating hatred and fear of men. It is obviously unacceptable to nakedly and deliberately promote hatred of an entire biological demographic based on a character of shared innate identity. Unless that group is the male sex. They’re the humans for whom it is politically correct to treat as wholly disposable; to treat as not even human, to kill in vast numbers while enacting our nation’s foreign policy and to imprison and murder in vast numbers while enacting domestic policies. Our children, when they happen to be male, are entirely disposable.

  29. Holy shit, why did I go to that forum? I was just expecting the usual “baw men have it hard”, but a few posts/threads really stood out.

    http://www.mgtowforums.com/forums/going-your-own-way/15702-young-turks-continue-shame-shame-shame.html

    Here they nitpick the video, missing the point that Japan is in a bit of a pickle because of their low birthrate.

    http://www.mgtowforums.com/forums/mens-general-discussion/16416-32-facts-show-how-men-being-systematically-emasculated-america-today.html

    You know what, fuck them. I wanted to be understanding to their problem, since I had a few of their woes as well. But, it’s clear they don’t want to fix their life and I’m too far removed to even get their logic. The person they are quoting actually is saying that “women play less video games than men, so it means men are being emasculated”. How do you even come to that idea?

    I hope they can see the light and find happiness that isn’t just in spite of others, but I’ve lost my sympathy for them now. And that’s probably a good thing, but I won’t hesitate to give a big high five to a fellow dude who left the echo-chamber of the MRA/MGTOW.

  30. >Men’s place in a society involves their relationships to women and men who have an insecure relationship to women are, by and large, marginalized.

    Ah, I remember that time when men were barred from holding certain poltiical positions before they had married and founded a household of their own.

    Ah, 1400s Munich, how I miss thee.

  31. First, we sound so much alike!

    More importantly, has anyone clicked on the link to the MGTOWer website? They have one article about Obama, one about Thatcher, and two about Ron Jeremy. What kind of nonsense website is that?

  32. So, according to Asher, before the welfare state we had the..prostitution state? And that was…better? Somehow? Assfax indeed.

  33. There are a noticeable amounts of MGTOW’s who are basically whingey bitches who havet cut off their nose to spite their face. However representing the whole movement that way is stupid.

    MGTOW is not necessarily about totally cutting women out of your life. Cutting off serious connection to women, maybe. On what grounds could you mock such a decision. A lot of young men are following that path these days, they look at the failures of their parents generation and decide not to follow such a path.

    The options are to go the traditional route and risk everything. I can find a decent wife, at least she seems decent at first. Get myself legally attached to her. Have children. After a few years she starts to feel safe enough in the relationship to start unleashing her deep seated princess complex. She has unreasonable expectations of her man. She expects him to keep working his back side off to earn a good wage and draw the prestige he gets from being successfull. She and the children get almost all the reward for his toils, virtually none of his effort gets spent on treating himself. Any attempt to do so is criticised as greed. She also expects him to satisfy her emotional needs which he is unable to do for lack of time and energy. Some one in the relationship starts to crack, statistically it will probably be the woman and either starts to have an affair or goes for divorce straight up. The man is then forced to give up most of the assets he has spent the last 15 years acquiring and give up a large chunk of his future earnings. This is a serious probability with the MAJORITY of marriages going down that root these days.

    ORRR he can never get himself tied down to one woman. He has casual relationships for the rest of his life with multiple women getting what ever he needs from them and releasing them whenever it starts getting out of hand. He will probably have little trouble keeping a consistent flow of women entering his life as long as he is reasonably charistmatic because he will inevitably be 10x more exicting than the average man because he will have his entire healthy wage to spend on doing awesome stuff and generally getting more done in a year than a family man does in his entire life. If he doesnt even want casual relationships that is fine because its not exactly hard to have flings so his sexual needs are always covered.

    Easy choice for me and most other young guys with half a brain and something to loose by getting tied down.

  34. Well, you sure proved the part about “whingey bitches”.

    [Except that "bitch" is pretty sexist. I'll happily call you a whingey baby, though]

  35. Andy: protip: nobody here gives a fuck whether you’re in a committed relationship or not.

  36. I…what? My ex-FWB (note the ex, it’ll be important later) is the later sort, and awesome, respectful, kind, caring, all those things we never EVER see from MGTOW. Now, the ex part? He’s ditched poly and casual sex with any interested person (ok, that isn’t quite true, dude does have standards, but horn dog alert!)…for a monogamous relationship with a lovely woman that he seems quite happy with.

    Point here? There are awesome respectful people who have casual sex and multiple sex partners but then decide to be monogamous with someone (personally? That’s how I started dating rapist ex #2 so yeah, I’ll pass on the “meh, yeah I can do monogamy if you want” but hey, to each zir own!)

    And you Andy? You do not strike me as an awesome person who enjoys having multiple people to enjoy sexytimes with, you strike me as someone who hates women and just wants to use them for sex. In which case, get a fleshlight.

    (I’m all pruney, but the sump is all rinsed, now to put it in place and measure for the plumbing [building a wet/dry sump filter for my little puffs, since they're going to need WAAAY more filtration but I haven't had good luck with anything that they can be sucked into, hence the sump with a skimmer intake])

  37. Andy, we really don’t care what you do. That’s the point you’re missing.

  38. Must say “Get a fleshlight” followed by “I’m all pruney” makes an interesting if unintended image. :D

  39. Hahaha wow.

    On family budgeting:

    She and the children get almost all the reward for his toils, virtually none of his effort gets spent on treating himself.

    And the children, huh? You realize kids need things to survive, right?

    On division of assets after divorce:

    The man is then forced to give up most of the assets he has spent the last 15 years acquiring and give up a large chunk of his future earnings.

    Not sure how he is forced to “give up” assets since they weren’t his assets to begin with, they were theirs? Also, kids need things to survive even when you don’t live with them anymore!

    Also two things: Thing 1) do you understand that single-income families are actually pretty rare? Like, there are all sorts of marriages and most of them don’t look like the one you are describing. Thing 2) Like Kittehs said, nobody actually cares about your relationship status.

  40. I’ll blockquote YOU, blockquote monster!

  41. Damn those freeloading kids!!! [shakes fists at sky]

  42. Why can’t they just pull themselves up by their tiny, tiny bootstraps?

  43. Damn those freeloading kids!!! [shakes fists at sky]

    Life is a burden, a total burden for teh menz!

  44. @Viscaria
    Yeah, they do get confused on that “mine” versus “our” assets. They seem to think that everything belongs to them, and if they get divorced they have to give up half of ‘their’ stuff. Conveniently forgetting that their partner was there helping them to get all the stuff.

    And if you’re in a relationship where you are unhappy because you never get anything for yourself, but your partner always does, that means you have an unhealthy, unequal relationship, not that no relationship with any woman could ever be healthy and equal.

    If you are self-sacrificing to the point of never getting/doing anything for yourself and it’s making you unhappy, then that is unhealthy behaviour and you need to learn to care for yourself better. It doesn’t mean that every woman, or even most women, are emotional/financial vampires.

  45. Misogynists in general adhere to the “what’s mine is mine and what’s yours is my own” principle for themselves, and get way whiney if they think a woman might have things of her own. They’d probably like to take things back before the Married Woman’s Property Act of 1882 if they had ever heard of it.

  46. WOW, a mangina blog!

  47. David, is there an award for stupidest necropost of the year?

  48. Given the utter lack of competition of troll of the year, there should be.

  49. That would be some stiff competition.

  50. True enough I suppose!

    In random things, I am far too achy for having done absolutely nothing for New Years (well, besides swapping sticky posts for the Borg, but five min of typing hardly counts!) Someone please come put my neck back in order. Ow, it’ shard to brush waist length hair when turning your head hurts.

  51. WOW, a mangina blog!

    WOW, a pooping peepee!

  52. MaudeLL – seems to me your are a troll. What complete and utter tosh you write! Bizarre! Almost fell off my seat, snorting like a pig.

    Oh, get over it, people. Men are and have always been oppressed and much worse than women. Women just sit around their lazy bums, occasionally abort an unwanted fetus, and watch TV. The ideal that women have ever been oppressed at any stage is history is ludicrous. Ladies, stop your pity party – it’s totally dishonest and really, really lame. Women are the real oppressors. How do I know? Coz I AM a woman, stupid. I oppress men and I’m ashamed of it. But, yet, I’m lucky too. Coz my big lady garden gets me freebies no man could ever dream of!

    What are women so dishonest? I dunno. I guess we want the gravy train to keep on rolling!

  53. Forgot to mention – women should get nothing in a divorce. The idea that a wife helped a man get his wealth is ridiculous! The person who earned the money should get to keep it. Alimony and compulsory child support are nothing more than legalized slavery and are a violation of the US constitution and basic human rights. I believe child support payments should be tied to minimal wage/welfare payment. It should be capped. Everyone should pay the same amount i.e. the kids of rich dads get the same allowance as the kids of paupers. And mother should be forced, by law, to pay 50% of the determined child support amount. This would discourage sluttish, selfish and arrogant women i.e. every female in America, from divorcing men for trivial reasons. Gay marriage didn’t kill marriage, people – it was the rabid greed of our womenfolk.

  54. *applauds Heidi* That was a pretty impressive parody of a barely-literate idiot who knows nothing of history, law, economics, or reality in general, and has no idea how to construct an argument.

  55. Down with the womenfolk! Why can’t they be less feevil?

    (Female and therefore evil. I felt like misogynists needed a shorter way to express the idea, given how wordy they tend to be.)

  56. That was an OK parody, not the best I’ve read, so here’s an oatmeal cookie.

  57. What’s a “big lady garden?” I’m thinking untrimmed pubes?

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