Arnold: Alpha male, or … girly man?
Grr. Argh.
Ok, MRA/MGTOW/PUA dudes, I’m trying my best to understand the whole Alpha-Beta-Omega thing, really I am. But then you guys make comments like this one from Avenger, found recently on The Spearhead:
Arnold is by no means an Alpha (except in the films lol) In real life he was a muscle bound steroid using meathead in a “sport” that was associated with homosexuals until recently. You’ll notice that he always speaks English and never German even when talking to the German speaking press. That’s because his accent is so bad that they laugh at him.I guess he thinks he can hide it in English where people just assume it’s an ordinary German accent) He sounds like some yokel in German. Sort of like a German Gomer Pyle lol
And no Alpha would permit their wife to go on some talkshow.
I’m not sure how exactly someone who uses “lol” in his comments got to be the final arbiter of Alphaness, but what do I know?
So, please, guys, just explain to me what exactly defines alphaness? (Aside from forbidding wives to go on talk shows.) If Arnold — a giant muscular actor dude with lots of money who was only just recently the governor of a pretty big state — isn’t an alpha, then who exactly is.
Here’s a list of dudes that I think most people who believed in the whole “greek system” would define as Alphas. If any of them aren’t alphas, please tell me why.
Brad Pitt
Genghis Kahn
Barack Obama
Charles Atlas
Superman
Bill Clinton
Donald Trump
Mystery (the PUA)
John Wayne
The Situation
Ice-T
Margaret Thatcher
Posted on May 24, 2011, in alpha males, homophobia, MGTOW, MRA, PUA. Bookmark the permalink. 62 Comments.
omfg, Margaret Thatcher. You rock my world.
This is a call for MensRightsActivistLieutenant: Please finish being spat upon by bitches and report to this comment thread as soon as possible - your input is needed. Thank you.
I thought Arnold was Austrian-American. Why does this guy keep inferring that he’s German? I mean, sure, German is the most spoken language in Austria, but still, Germany and Austria are different countries.
Amnesia - you beat me to the punch. Arnold is Austrian-American.
So, it appears that our letter writer is as clueless about that as he is confused about what makes an “alpha”.
‘Cos, I’m with David - if Ahnold isn’t an alpha - who is?
lol@ Margaret Thatcher. This is gonna be an interesting thread…
Anyone play GTA IV? There’s this character Brucie, who is tanned orange, obsessed with body building, money, and cars, and is constantly referring to himself and people he likes as Alphas. He’s also very strongly suggested to be a closet homosexual. I’m starting to imagine MRAs talking in his voice.
Well, I think Thatcher is a woman, and women are only alpha-ized by looking like a supermodel, so…
Genghis Khan, if we count “raising a kid you are not sure is yours” as being not alpha, isn’t one. Khan’s first wife was captured in a raid and raped and it remained unknown whether or not one of his favorite sons (his favorite ones were all the ones by the first wife) was actually biologically his.
Also, Brad Pitt’s partner (him and Jolie aren’t married, right?) goes on talk shows…so he must be a beta. On that note, so does Michelle Obama.
And Ice-T is black. I don’t think MRAs allow that black dudes can be counted as alphas, so I suspect he is a “thug boy”, which is a what? a beta?
*small litebulb goes off over head*
First, love that Margaret Thatcher is on the list because, damnstraight!
Second, David, this post suddenly makes me realize just how much the MRA position on what defines masculinity proves that masculinity, like femininity, is a social construct, and therefore fluid.
NOTE: I do not say they intend to prove it; quite the contrary. They believe that these genders in their system are completely natural/essential (and it also dawns on me how funny the use of GREEK is in this context). But the fact that the *braces self for sports metaphor which is of course distressing for my girly brain* goalposts keep moving, and that NOBODY ever can maintain their “alpha” status in the eyes of the MRAs proves masculinity is not inherent.
Not a new insight, I know, but this post points it out so beautifully.
“Being powerful is like being an Alpha. If you have to tell people you are, you aren’t”
Why didn’t you add Keanu Reeves cuz he doesn’t let the ladies keep him down!!
darksidecat, I’m pretty sure “thug boys” aren’t on the scale. I think it only applies to white dudes. Because they don’t really understand that non-white dudes are sentient beings.
If all of the Alphas on that list were in a room together … I would run away from that room, screaming.
On the talk-show thing: Hillary Clinton has been on plenty of talk shows, too. Therefore, Bill Clinton is a beta.
Why should Arnold care if he’s an “alpha” or not? He’s rich, famous, has a fancy-ass house and lots of toys and lots of people who suck up to him, and presumably gets laid regularly.
Maybe he’s not an “alpha”… and maybe that tells you what it’s good for.
Slightly off topic but as I recall the MRAs are always all about how only men risk themselves at war, and teh wimminz never do, and yet, voila:
http://www.badreputation.org.uk/2011/02/10/unsung-heroes-nancy-wake/
So kickass and awesome she’d kick all the MRA asses without even breaking a sweat.
Superman is not an Alpha. I mean, he’s really mild-mannered reporter Clark Kent! Can you be an alpha if you’re mild mannered? I DON’T THINK SO.
DSC: Ghengis Khan sired so many kids for which he did not have to pay child support I think that he qualifies as an honorary alpha.
Margaret Thatcher is an interesting case. She was a woman with political power, so she must be a ball-busting feminist. Her existence, however, is useful to MRAs because it automatically (in their view) disproves the feminist notion of patriarchy and reinforces the idea that men are the ones who are more oppressed (after all, they had to suffer under woman prime minister). On top of all that, she was a Conservative in the British sense of being fiscally conservative but socially closer to U.S. moderates or even liberals, which fits the general political profile of most MRAs (NWO being an obvious exception). And, of course, being an older woman she would probably not be on the Greek Scale at all, as older women are invisible to these guys.
My guess is that they’d just say fuck it and call her an honorary man.
All those people are alphas. Yes, including Margaret Thatcher. But you guys still don’t get it, because the Greek system applies differently to those people than to the majority of us. At some point, when you’re rich and famous enough, “alpha” is simply automatic, regardless of your social status or looks. For example, Arnold is kinda old now and honestly not THAT great looking anymore, but at this point, his millions speak for themselves. The politicians on the list- the fame and the awe and the respect they command make them alphas, no matter what flaws they may possess. But the fact is that they are social freaks, one out of hundreds of millions. The vast majority of “regulars” do not command that level of wealth or awe or power, and thus the Greek system is based solely on looks. For women, this is fine, because as long as you’re not obese you can do whatever the fuck you want. This makes them entitled and arrogant and they spit upon any “regular” men who, as I said, is not Johnny Depp level beautiful.
Donald Trump is not an alpha either. Alphas have hair.
What about Prince Phillip? Is he an alpha, or is he oppressed by TEH MATRIARCHYZ?
Let’s see here. Using the roissy definitions, an alpha is a man women want to fuck, a beta is someone they’ll settle for and an omega is someone no woman would ever fuck ever. By this theory:
Alphas: Barack Obama. Bill Clinton. Mystery. John Wayne. Ice-T.
Betas: Brad Pitt. Genghis Khan. Superman. The Situation. Margaret Thatcher.
Omegas: Donald Trump.
I think the correct answer is: nobody xD
Because all men can be oppressed. (And they should be oppressed. And WILL be oppressed. MUST BE OPPRESSED! YOU WILL BE OPPRESSED! RESISTANCE IS FUTILE! (or resistance is Futrelle!
BA DA BUM xD )
But I do think that’s the answer. If you can be a victim, you’re not alpha, and there’s no man on Earth who can’t be a victim to us >:D
Esp me
If we take the Judith Butler approach, no man is truly an alpha, because each man is always trying to perform as the ideal man that doesn’t exist. Thus, all supposed “alphas” are engaged in a performance of alpha masculinity that always fails.
Though, really, I was just looking for an excuse to combine Judith Butler with the “Greek theory”. I’ve now sufficiently amused myself.
Even King Leonidas (of 300 fame) isn’t an alpha.
His wife was sexually assaulted while he was away and had to eviscerate her asaulter herself.
There’s no way Superman could be an alpha. Even when he’s Superman he’s no more than a beta. He lets Lois Lane and Lana Lang rule his actions far too much. He’s nice and he doesn’t kill his enemies, even if it means they get the upper hand.
Then of course he allows himself to be Clark Kent, clearly a (completely cut, chiseled jawed, remarkably handsome) four-eyed omega freak who grovels Perry White and lets Lios Lane step all over him.
No WAY Superman could be an alpha!!
…
The Joker on the other hand…
Yay, MRAL said “spit upon”. I get to take a drink.
“At some point, when you’re rich and famous enough, ‘alpha’ is simply automatic, regardless of your social status or looks.”
Oh, ok, so does that mean Oprah Winfrey is an alpha?
And Brad Pitt can’t be an alpha, he’s raising kids that not only aren’t his, they’re not even his wife’s. Biologically speaking.
Ah, i see. The Greek system applies always. Except when it doesn’t!
Brad Pitt isn’t an alpha, but Johnny Depp very definitely is. Not only are there hundreds of millions of women who look upon him with lust in their hearts, but he plays a fucking pirate, and you can’t get more alpha than a pirate.
spitfire: I think you’re right. Also,
this behavior
doesn’t seem very Alpha, does it?
I never understood the lust for Johnny Depp. I guess he’s mildly attractive. And pirates ARE cool. I never understood the lust for Brad Pitt, either. I just don’t find either one all that hot.
Now Mike Rowe from Dirty Jobs? Hott diggity damn.
Wait. MRAL. One more question.
Dalai Lama. Alpha or no?
The Dalai Lama I would think doesn’t really apply, but if you need to force him into one of the categories, he is indeed an alpha. He commands the awe of women and hypothetically could definitely get around. Oprah Winfrey? Alpha. There are a lot of men who worship Oprah even though she’s not supermodel hot- again, her awe and wealth speak for themselves, transcending the need for looks. Unfortunately, us plebians don’t have that.
Also, Clark Kent is an alpha, guys. An alpha can be quiet and reserved, as long as women want him.
Well, the Pope’s definitely an alpha. The Popemobile is a sweet ride. And the way he dresses? Pure pimp.
Then again, there is the question of just what constitutes someone women want.
Dear average looking guys with smallish penises
I adore, admire, and salute you. You are the unsung heroes of the bedroom. You try so hard, care so much, and learn so fast. Hands-down the two very best male sex partners I’ve ever had were really average-looking guys on the small end of the spectrum. Not relying on dashing looks or a massive tool to win the interest of potential mates, the face-in-the-crowd four-and-a-half-incher really, really knows his way around a pussy. Ladies of Reddit and the world, appreciate these hard-working and extremely attentive soldiers of love. That is all.
Oh… and the comments too.
But women don’t want Clark, they want Superman
Why can’t I have both? o_O
I mean I find both the glasses and the non glasses sexy! It’s not fair that I can’t have both! >:O It’s not the same if I just asked Clark to take off the glasses cuz he’d just look lik…
wait…
OMG
OMG
OMG
I THINK I FIGURED OUT SUPERMAN’S SECRET IDENTITY!
:OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Wait… Isn’t it weird that MRAs disparage so-called betas as “girl men” and use the term as an insult when they consider themselves to be betas? If they were alphas, they’d be getting all the sex they could possibly want from Ameriskanks and Cupcakes, wouldn’t they? I’m so confused.
Now Mike Rowe from Dirty Jobs? Hott diggity damn.
Mike Rowe’s voice can cause the Alphaest MRA to go gay.
“But women don’t want Clark, they want Superman.”
Really? Damn it, spitfire, I just brought a Clark Kent cosplay set and I have to go to a con tommorrow! Now I’ll never get any poon!
okay so oprah, a sixty year old fat woman is an alpha now? I thought being old and/or fat automatically made you an omega.
*brain melted out of side of head*
Maybe if we ask MRAL about enough specific people and he admits that every single one of them happens to not fit in his scheme, he’ll realize that his made-up system doesn’t actually work.
I thought the Dalai Lama being an Asian male negates any alphaness he might have o_o;; But if he were female she’d be the alphaness alpha woman evar xD
I’m Austrian, and wanted to note on the issue of Mr. Schwarzenegger and language:
He does speak a regional dialect (and the fact that he has spent so much time in America hasn’t helped, it influences his speech as well). He does sound a bit strange, and yes, he’s been teased about his accent in the past.
However, he is actually understandable, as opposed to people from the western-most edge of Austria; if they speak in dialect, they are very hard to understand, and sometimes are subtitled on TV (the reason for that is that their dialects go back to allemannic German, as opposed to austro-bavarian German).
@Ami, well, hunger strikes are an effective diet, you must admit.
I feel like an asshole having thought and typed that, but I will let it stand.
Oops, wait, that is Ghandi. I should probably get some sleep…
he’ll realize that his made-up system doesn’t actually work.
Are you new here?
Hey, we got him to admit that he wasn’t actually being spat on, but rather not being talked to this one time in the elevator. I have hope.
@ katz
Now, now, you’re misrepresenting the elevator event. It wasn’t “not being talked to this one time in the elevator.”
It was that she had the wrong tone and look when she said, “Hi,” back to him. You know, she didn’t give him the exact amount of respect he so clearly deserves.
Don’t deny him his oppression.
I think the alternative to him being shunned and spat on is infinitely worse: that she was having a bad day and her response had absolutely nothing to do with him at all. In other words, he’s just not that special.
So it’s what I suspected: the definition is such as to render tautologous the apparently meaningful statement that women only want to have sex with alphas.
If ‘alpha’ is defined as a man with whom women want to have sex (and an omega is defined as a man with whom women don’t want to have sex), then saying that women want to have sex with alphas is just saying that women want to have sex with men with whom they want to have sex.
Similarly, it’s hardly a surprise that women don’t want to have sex with omegas, and it’s kinda odd to complain that women haven’t managed to attain the contradictory state of wanting to have sex with men they don’t want to have sex with.
Oh, if only we had some independent criteria by which to rank men according to the alpha, beta, omega scale! (And why aren’t there gamma, delta, epsilon, rho, tau, etc., men?) This is clearly very important. I’d like to know if my husband is an alpha, so I can find out whether I want to have sex with him, or whether I should instead spit on him, leave him and take all his money.
^Of course, it’s still a meaningless system, because there’s no single man that every woman wants to get with, or vice versa.
For me: Colin Firth, Daniel Craig, Richard Dean Anderson. But someone who likes younger guys would totally disagree.
Hey, if any man who faces any consequences for any kind of sex act is automatically a “beta”, is the reverse true? Is any man who faces no consequences automatically an alpha?
Imagine a 14-year-old ghetto kid who’s a low-level member of a street gang, and he’s never known his own father. He’s slick enough to impregnate a neighborhood girl, and then a week later he’s arrested on a narcotics charge after he has the bad luck to run the wrong way while his buddies run the right way. There are aggravating circumstances: He was near a school, and was carrying a gun when he was arrested. So he goes away for a while.
A few years later, he’s out… but no one even thinks about pursuing him for child support. He’d be hard to even locate, for one thing, having no verifiable address. The girl and her mother know perfectly well that even if he can get a job, it won’t be a well-paying one, and it might be for cash, under the table. So he faces no consequences for having sex with the girl. But is this poor young man therefore an “alpha”? That would be ridiculous.
So the actual MRA system is… people ALWAYS fuck for power and wealth?
Otherwise beta man strikes it rich: becomes alpha.
Fat chick is always an omega, unless she’s a rich fat chick, then she’s an alpha?
Arnold acts “gay” (I just winced typing that), so if he wasn’t rich, he’d be a mangina… except he’s rich, so alpha?
mediumdave - sounds like a “thug boy” to me. Who are either outside the “greek system” or maybe they’re “thetas”.
Heh. Too many exceptions = crap theory, in my book.
There aren’t a ton of exceptions. I’ve said it’s merely the “social freaks”- I suppose the “Gods”- that get to bypass the looks department.
Also, can I get taken off moderation now? It’s really annoying.
No it means it’s the best theory!
All right, MRAL, you’re off moderation (I’ve removed all the IP addresses I think are associated with you; if future posts vanish it’s because I missed one.) Just behave.
But MRAL, I said nothing at all about my hypothetical gangbanger’s looks… I described him as “slick”, which is a description of behavior and attitude, not appearance. So let’s say he’s just average-looking. Does that change anything?
If “thug” is a category outside of the Greek classification system, well, what good is it? It doesn’t take into account the fact that his status will change according to his surroundings. In his neighborhood pre-arrest, he’d probably be considered a beta. In prison, who knows? After his release, it depends on where he ends up. Back in his neighborhood, if he can rejoin his gang his status might be upped a bit. If he tries to make it in the “legit” world elsewhere, things will be pretty hard. An unemployable homeless guy is pretty “omega”, don’t you think?
You see what I’m saying? Your system is just too limited; it doesn’t factor in the complexities of real peoples’ lives.
Your system is just too limited; it doesn’t factor in the complexities of real peoples’ lives.
For MRAL, this is a feature, not a bug.
So…I may be missing something, but are the MRAs saying that Edward Cullen is their ideal alpha male?