The Gropes of Wrath

Evil woman oppressing men

In various countries around the world, women and teenage girls are regularly groped while riding commuter trains. This, I suspect, is not news to most of you; indeed, I know one reader of this blog who’s had this happen to her. In Japan, one survey found that two-thirds of female passengers in their twenties and thirties had been groped. Because the problem is so prevalent in that country — and the authorities are so ineffective at controlling it – some train lines have instituted women-only train cars in an attempt to cut down on groping (and on false accusations of groping as well).  “Women-only” train cars have also introduced, in a limited way, in India, where harassment of women in public – known as “Eve teasing” – is distressingly common.

So what’s more appalling – the fact that groping on trains is so common in Japan that two-thirds of young women commuters have had to endure it themselves, or the fact that a small number of train cars have been set aside for women in a fairly half-assed attempt to curtail some of this groping?

For a lot of MRAs, the latter. The subject came up on Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit recently, inspiring some of the regulars to fulminate against this allegedly misandrist outrage. Fatalistic pulled out the n-word and this facile comparision:

Here’s what I’m seeing here: “At least we let you in the back of the bus, nigger.”

ExpendableOne, meanwhile, managed to work in a staggering number of standard-issue MRA complaints into this one sentence:

I think it’s discrimination and subjugation entirely based on misandry, negative male type-casting/stereotyping and anti-male heterophobia.

Ztakn seemed to suggest that it was all part of some oddly indirect money-making scheme on the part of, I guess, women:

To keep it short they exploit and propagate fears not only demonizing men in society but also terrorizing women and scaring the shit out of them making them more paranoid than they need to be.

And then they do it for money.

How would that work exactly?

1) Get groped

2) Set up women-only train cars

3) ???

4) Profit?

Given that the Men’s Rights subreddit is one of the few Men’s Rights forums online that is not completely overrun with misogynist fanatics, there were others who responded more reasonably. Alienblonde noted:

In Japan it’s a massive problem where school girls get groped by older males on trains in peak hour.

Happened to me in Europe too when I was back packing. Some old Spanish guy sat beside me and decided to feel me up.

Women shouldn’t have to deal with this and unfortunately, until it stops happening, I think [women only train cars are] justified.

Naturally, this being a Men’s Rights forum, she quickly found herself the focus of a game of “blame the victim.” Fatalistic accused her of “[j]ustifying discrimination with this all men are potential criminals feminist dogma.”  When she pointed out that she was not, in fact, doing this, he moved on to castigating her for not making a public scene when she was groped:

You should out the people who actually do these things rather than treat the rest of us as criminals by default with disgusting bigoted policies and the back of the bus mentality.

When she pointed out that this could have put her in more serious danger, he merely scoffed:

You would have to be paranoid and spoonfed the most egregious of feminist women are helpless, men are unstoppable beasts that need other men with guns to drag them away dogma to believe that all but the most psychopathic would persist or try to harm you if you outed them to a crowd for their actions.

Easy for you to say.

Of course, when women DO confront sexual harassers on trains, as I noted in a post on the infamous New York Subway flasher last November, they get reactions like this sarcastic Reddit comment from one member of the men-are-oppressed club.

Yes, because obviously her heterophobia needs to be glorified… Penises are so disgusting and scary, obviously women should totally be justified in fearing them and there couldn’t possibly be any kind of misandry involved with such contempt, befuddlement or “helplessness/horror” to the mere sigh[t] of male anatomy. /s

Yep, if you’re a woman on a train, not wanting to have some random dude pull his penis out and rub it on you is “heterophobia.” Who knew?

In the case of the subway flasher, the alleged perp did indeed flee when confronted. (He was later arrested.) That’s pretty much the best-case scenario. But it’s hardly the only possible result, and it’s understandable why a woman riding the train to work (much less one backpacking alone in a foreign country) would hesitate to publicly accuse a groper of groping her. Having women-only train cars cuts down on the number of times women are put in this difficult situation.

Yes, in an ideal world, there would be no need for women-only train cars. In an ideal world, men wouldn’t grope women on trains.

About David Futrelle

I run the blog We Hunted the Mammoth, which tracks (and mocks) online misogyny. My writing has appeared in a wide variety of places, including Salon,, the Washington Post, the New York Times Book Review and Money magazine. I like cats.

Posted on May 31, 2011, in evil women, men who should not ever be with women ever, misandry, misogyny, MRA, oppressed men, penises, sexual harassment. Bookmark the permalink. 470 Comments.

  1. I don’t get it…how did “Whiteknight” come to be an insult? It just means that you’re coming to someone’s defense…so what? If that person is someone you care about, well, good on ya for being a whiteknight!

  2. this reminds me of those old Tombstone commercials?

    What do YOU want on your White Knight? xD

    Or you could combine it w/ the Delissio Pizza commercial that says that only women eat foods separately and real men eat cheeseburger pizzas instead of a cheeseburger and/or a pizza xD

    So I guess guys can like White Knights AND Bishops together… Bish Knights!😀

  3. Why is there a ? there? xD I think I meant a !😀

  4. evilwhitemalempire

    @nobiyumi-ashi-obi-wan-kenobi (or whatever pretentious african sounding name your folks gave you)

    “I keep waiting for this magical age where women lose their looks so I can stop being hassled”

    Jeeeezus Keeeeriste on the holier than thou freakin’ cross!
    ARE you stupid and arrogant enough to think we believe that?

    “Also, you fucking dumb ass, it should be fairly obvious that I’m black. So when I refer to you as a whiny ass white boy please understand that I mean it in the most literal and disrespectful way possible”

    It should be equally obvious that I’m white. So when I refer to you as a pompous, self important, entitled black bitch please understand that I mean it in THE most literal and disrespectful way possible.

  5. Hahahaha, Ami.

    I mean, I know that somehow, somewhere, there’s an MRA reading my responses saying, “We’re putting down the feminazi whiteknights because the only people who suck up to females are those who want to get laid/political favors/money/anything other than their mouths on MY cock!”

    I mean, geez, have they ever heard of a concept called “ladyfriend”? Cause I have plenty of those, and I have folders on my desktop full of…er…stuff.

    It just baffles me.

  6. …well, I see EWME is as consistent as ever.


    Jeeeezus Keeeeriste on the holier than thou freakin’ cross!
    ARE you stupid and arrogant enough to think we believe that?

    So, what, exactly, are you critiquing about what she said?

  7. evilwhitemalempire

    “So, what, exactly, are you critiquing about what she said?”

    Females do not look forward to loosing their looks EVER.

  8. EWME, are you an example of a guy whose mother is cut from the same shitty cloth, and raised with her giving you whole creepy “you’re a beautiful snowflake” treatment so you could grow up to be the same old boring troll filth? Or do you think she’s a moral enough lady to be ashamed she ever had the misfortune of crapping you out between her legs in the first place?

  9. MRAL: Let me get this straight:

    People who are victims of the crime of battery, are supposed to just suck it up and drive on. Slaps, grabs, bruises, all are trivial, not worthy of mention. Those who suffer them and recall it are wimps and losers.

    But a young woman fails to say hello in the right way and you can’t forget it. In response to her not being effusive in the way you think you should have been treated you imagined hitting her, and gouging her eye out.

    That’s how bad the wrong hello is. But bruises from strangers; those are things only weaklings remember.

    That sort of two-faced, self-centered shit is why I said you are a spoiled brat. The whole world revolves around your puny little ego.

    I’ve pretty much had it. I’m running out of charity. Which saddens me. I dislike the idea that someone is insalvageable. I don’t really care that you ignore me (I just figure it means I landed a palpable hit; don’t bother protesting that I didn’t. I can compare the way you react to me to the way you react to others, and come to my decisions. You know if I hit home. Suck it up and drive on. Defending it only makes it worse).

    I don’t care if you don’t become a feminist. Really. I don’t give a shit. I know a lot of people who aren’t. I’m good friends with homophobes and non-feminists. The Army is pretty good at weeding out racists, and doing better at weeding out misogynists.

    In another decade homophobia will be on the skids.

    Really, I don’t give a rats ass if you never agree with feminism.

    But the self-centered misogyny… that shit pisses me off. Because I have female friends (some of whom live in Boston; I recommend you don’t piss them off. Sergeants Major don’t take that sort of crap well. Give her an excuse and she will spit on you, while you lie on the sidewalk and her husband laughs).

    The stuff I posted from Kant, and about what feminism means… I believe it. If you can accept that (that you aren’t special, and women are people too) all the rest is unimportant.

    But right now, you are failing that, and if you keep failing that, then women ought to treat you as dust beneath their wheels.

  10. It isn’t just the bruises, it is the psychological damage of being constantly under threat and of having your bodily autonomy constantly attacked.

    For example, before my health took a rapid downward spiral in my mid-teens, I used to do a lot of horseriding. When I was thirteen, I often rode a quarter horse thoroughbred cross. She has a fairly good disposition in general, but she used to have issues with a fear of certain sounds the wind would make on windy days. So, one day, the wind picked up suddenly, made a noise, she reared, I fell, except one of my feet caught in the stirrup. I was dragged a good fifteen feet at least, with the hooves of a 16 and a half hand tall horse inches from my head. Not only did I still hand untacking the horse, I finished her exercise regement for the day. Needless to say, I spent weeks covered in bruises. But, I got over it pretty quickly. It wasn’t a huge problem. I rode that horse hundreds of times afterwards.

    But sexual and other harassment and abuse isn’t like that. It isn’t a random accident, it is an attack, and is is a constant threat against certain groups of people. It wears you down. It is every day and you can’t escape. It is dehumanizing in a way that accidental injury is not. Almost being trampled once by a paniced horse was not a fraction as bad as having to walk past a house full of frat boys who would yell homophobic slurs at me. Having to feel as if I could be attacked, verbally and/or physically, at any second at least twice a day was a million times worse than the bruises from that horse riding accident did. It does not matter how much you try to ignore it or how aggressively you react, being made to feel unsafe in your everyday life, in your own skin, is fucking brutal, with or without physical bruises.

  11. evilwhitemalempire

    “-do you think she’s a moral enough lady to be ashamed she ever had the misfortune of crapping you out between her legs in the first place?”

    Political correctness is YOUR morals and values. Not mine and sure as hell ain’t mom’s.

  12. “l correctness is YOUR morals and values. Not mine and sure as hell ain’t mom’s.”

    Dumb troll response is dumb.

    So I guess we can put you in the entire: “You’re my special wittle boy, and can do no wrong, and no one else can love you but me,” camp of maternal upbringing.
    Huh, a lot of keyboard bad boys such as you self tend to share the same childhood.

    Be honest now, mom is in the house with you right now isn’t she?

  13. EWME: “I sacrifice two monster cards to summon…MY MOM, IN ATTACK MODE!”

    Ooooh, shit. Things are gonna go down.

  14. I know right redlocker? The Mrs. EWME Sr. is probably one bad dame. And by bad dame, I mean a tired and harried old woman who’s likely sick of delivering Cheetos to her ne’redowell son as he types sweatily at the computer.

  15. I don’t wanna lose my looks (what of them I had) but can I please have grey hair like NOW? That would be GAINING looks. I’ve been waiting for grey hair literally since the age of 4. Utterly unfair I don’t have it already. My mom had grey hairs by the time she graduated from high school. I’m 35 and I think I might have maybe found one a couple of years ago but I accidentally pulled it out while trying to verify if it was grey (I was so excited to finally find one!) and nary a once since.

  16. evilwhitemalempire

    To MRAL (if your still reading)

    The females at this site want you to think they are the same females that tell you to buzz off in person but they are not.

    Most of the females here are wallflowers.

    Females aspire to bitch-goddess-destroyer-dom the way dudes aspire to be Rambo.

    So when you say stuff like “You feminists are a bunch of stuck up cock teases, don’t say hello, etc.” you aren’t hurting them or shamming them in any way.

    You are only flattering them.

    Don’t give them that kind of satisfaction!

  17. Ok, I am kinda a wallflower in a sense – I’m an introvert. But apparently I’m also a slut ’cause I read earlier today in another post that cut cutoff point for being a slut is sleeping with like 9 guys and I am so way past that. I guess there are a lot of guys out there who like walls😉

  18. EWME: Flatter yourself. Presume you know what the people here are like.

    I don’t give a rat’s ass for “political correctness”. I do care about treating people as people.

    For what it’s worth… you are nothing more than anyone else here. A person at a keyboard. All your posturing is just that. I don’t pretend to be more than that. If I want to I can be an assholish jerk. Why? What does it get me?

    I don’t need to insult people I’ll never see face to face to get my pecker up.

  19. “To MRAL (if your still reading)”

    How adorable, EWME is trying desperately to snag himself a little bro.

    Quick! Get some money out of mom’s purse while she’s still sleeping and hope on the nearest train to Maine!
    Or have you already packed?

  20. God, another fucking moron. First of all, dipshit, Nobinayamu is a Japanese word. I know there’s been some confusion on this thread as to this exact point, so let me help you out: there are many other languages in the world besides English. One of those many languages is Japanese. Japanese words are different from English words. Also, I’m sure you built up a big head of steam fantasizing about whatever sort of stereotypically “ghetto” name you think I have but rest assured, it is completely race and class neutral. My folks are engineers; they thought ahead.

    Secondly, everyone is well aware that you’re the kind of paste-eating dimwit who runs around the threads saying “You’re all ugly! Neener, neener!” I’ve yet to see you make a single substantive comment and so, along with most other posters, I ignore you. You’re the kind of guy who laughs loudest at his own jokes and doesn’t notice other people rolling their eyes and changing the subject.

    On topic, the “…magical age…” comment was sarcasm; not to be confused with satire. Am I typing slowly enough for you?

    As for the rest of it: yes, I am Black and yes I can be kind of a bitch. I’m sure you got a hard on typing that since you’ve probably never had the stones to call a Black woman a bitch in real life but I honestly don’t give a shit. I hate to knock the wind out of your sails because you’re feeling really witty and self-satisfied. But I’ve been called a Black bitch to my face. As for pompous – nothing that I’ve written on this or any other thread can be considered pompous by any reasonable or objective measure. Are you sure you know what the word means? Entitled you just pulled out of your ass because you’re a bigot who probably thinks all Black people are entitled.

    And self-important? Maybe, probably, a little. Everyone who contributes to these kinds of discussions is a bit self-important otherwise they’d just lurk and not post. Whatever self-importance I do have pales in comparison to yours though. What on earth could be more than self-important then telling a bunch of people you can’t see that you think they’re ugly. Day after day, after day. So funny. Maybe you can break out another fat joke. Stop. Stop. My sides are splitting.


  21. Nobinayamu don’t get to steamed up about this guy, he’s just the live action version of this:

    They’re a dime a dozen and they’ll inhabit basements across the globe till Ragnarok. They just type the same tired crap on the internet cause they know IRL they wouldn’t do so hot spouting off against people like you face to face.

  22. evilwhitemalempire

    “Maybe you can break out another fat joke. Stop. Stop. My sides are splitting.”

    Are you sure it’s not you’re pants that are splitting?

    There! Another fat joke.

  23. Mr. Kobold -love the name by the way- I appreciate the sentiment. But I’m not steamed. I’m an insomniac. I liked the picture by the way.

  24. evilwhitemalempire

    “they wouldn’t do so hot spouting off against people like you face to face.”

    I wouldn’t count on that.

  25. Oh no! I haven’t heard a burn that sick since the 7th grade.

    Honestly sport, I’m friends with some legit trolls, and you ain’t no troll kiddo.

  26. Jesus, you call that a fat joke?

    The Pharcyde

    Awwwwwwww, ya mom is so fat (how fat is she?)
    We rode up on her back to get some burgers from Wendy’s
    and her skates went flat; I got stuck in her butt crack
    They thought I was lost but I was caught by the G-strap
    Heaven forbid a giant fart would give way
    Cause that would blow me round the world in a day
    We drove into the drive-in and she didn’t have to pay
    because we dressed her up to look just like a Chevrolet

    That’s a fat joke.

  27. I propose we call evil ‘Ew’ from now on. I think that’ll create a great double meaning for all of our responses to him that immediately implies disgust. E.g. ‘Ew, that’s not a fat joke’

  28. I propose we shun him.

  29. evilwhitemalempire

    Almost forgot.
    Consider the title “The Gropes of Wrath”.
    Surprising Futtrelles insensitivity for the victims of such a war crime as groping. Next thing you know he’ll have a title like “Planet of the Rapes” or something.
    Thought I might point that out about your hero.

  30. Sometimes shunning is hard. Particularly when people say dumb things.

  31. *gasp* That’s… that’s true! Oh my god… I just realized…. the truth!


    You finally really did it. YOU MANIAC! YOU BLEW IT UP! Damn you David. GOD DAMN YOU TO HELL!

  32. “Surprising Futtrelles insensitivity for the victims of such a war crime as groping.”

    Divide a conquer fail. You have to be smart to use that move.

    And he isn’t really a hero, he has stated himself that he’s just a guy who pulls a few comments dumbasses like you type out on the internet and just posts them here to make fun of. All you do is cut out the middleman.

  33. David is awesome ’cause he makes me LOL. Doesn’t make him a hero. Just, ya know, a kewl guy.

  34. Having read his responses & thinking about this when my toddler wouldn’t sleep last night…I’m reasonably certain that MRAL is a narcissist. I’m not sure if he actually has narcissistic personality disorder, although I wouldn’t be surprised. There’s no point in trying to have a reasonable conversation with someone like him because they never get beyond the infantile belief the world revolves around them. My 2 year old has more empathy and awareness of others.

    Thankfully, most narcissists don’t physically hurt people (although there definitely are some & given MRAL’s violent fantasies, he seems on the road to being one), they just make the lives of everyone who care about them miserable.

  35. Beware the feminist! For she is the Devil’s pawn. Alone among God’s females, she marries for sport or lust or greed. Yea, she will marry her brother to possess her brother’s land. Let her not breed and become fat, for she will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun her, drive her back into her cat ridden apartment, for she is the harbinger of bankruptcy.


  36. Dr. Futrelle: I see you’ve bought the sexbot of your fantasies. I didn’t realize that men could be technoamorous.

    Hero MRA: On this forum, it’s easy.

  37. Ah, yes – the young MRA with the funny eye. I hear you’re planning another trolling expedition. MRAL, a friendly word of warning – as you dig for sympathy, be sure you don’t bury your reputation.

  38. What’s wrong with me?

    I think you’re crazy.

    I want a second opinion.

    You’re also lazy!

    Can I date hot girls anymore?

    Of course you can!

    Well I couldn’t before!


  39. Captain Bathrobe

    It’s funny. Earlier in this same thread I got called a “white knight” for being too charitable towards MRAL. Now I’m a “white knight” for stating that men should call other men on their shit. It’s hard to get these things right…

    Fortunately, I won’t run that risk with EWME, who is just a garden-variety Internet Tough Guy-all bluster and no balls.

  40. Eh, these MRA paste-eating titty babies may call my story white-knighting, I call it everyone there looking out for everyone else. They won’t believe I wasn’t just using the oodles of female privilege at my disposal, but I can assure these nerds that if shit was started with ANYONE on staff, male or female, the bouncers were all over it. It was by far the most egalitarian place I’ve ever worked.

    Captain Bathrobe, you’re right, guys do need to be aware and call bullshit on other men when they’re being misogynist tools.

  41. PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

    Futrelle will only be a hero to me if he dresses up in a cape and tights. It is required. He can have a big giant F on his cape though.

    Yesterday some dipwad in Yuma shot up a bunch of places and killed five of them. Since it appears to be from an acrimonious divorce, I am not looking forward to the stupidity that will flow from the MRAs running around the Spearhead claiming this guy was justified. *sigh*

  42. Captain Bathrobe

    Beth, I thought they’d be celebrating V.S. Naipaul’s latest bit of douchbaggery:

  43. Aw, man, VS Naipaul IS one of the most brilliant writers on the earth at the moment. It’s too bad he’s also one of the biggest assholes as well.

    Elizabeth: I’m wearing a cape and tights right now!

  44. Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant

    Hey nobinyamu, I’ll like Toni Morrison if I damn well want to, just as I’ll enjoy Malcolm X’s autobiography if it fucking pleases me to like it. As a member of the thought police feminist brigade I’m sure that gets your panties in a twist, but that’s too bad.

  45. Hey fuckwit, I didn’t say that you couldn’t like Morrison or Malcolm X. Frankly, I’m impressed that a chowder-head like you reads at all. I said, essentially, that your inability to understand them frustrates me.

    When I began reading Morrison I didn’t think to myself “Oh, woe is me. I’m Black and 13 years old and sometimes my life is really hard because I feel like no one understands me. Ohmigod! I’m just like Pecola! Feeling misunderstood by my parents, and anxiety about my looks, and hating algebra is exactly like being an abused girl in the dustbowl who is constantly called ugly and eventually gets raped and abandoned by her father. My life is soooo hard! Sniffle.”

    In other words, through Morrison’s exquisite prose I was able to gain real insight into some of the issues surrounding self-image both as a young Black woman and as a human being. Just as importantly, I was able to see quite clearly how incredibly privileged my own life was in comparison to Pecola Breedlove’s. And I was 13 years old at the time; not an age known for introspection.

    But you, you’re such a whiny ass titty baby that reading about real hardships, fiction or not, feeds your persecution complex. Because you’re a soft, spoiled, dumbass.

  46. Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant

    What makes you think that I think I’m anything like Pecola or Malcolm X? Because I sure as hell never said anything like that.

  47. How is that you read as much as you claim to and don’t understand synecdoche, the concept of the corollary, and metaphor? Also, you did say way back when you first started posting on these threads that you identified with Malcolm X. If you want, I’ll go dig through threads and pull up the quote.

    My larger point, and I’ll try to use smaller words, is that you fundamentally lack the ability to comprehend the larger themes in their work and I find that frustrating. You also have a persecution complex the size of which is completely unsupported by the facts of your life as you present them and I find that irritating.

  48. PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

    David: My hero! *hands you bacon*

    CB: While I am not a fan of Ms Austen’s work, it makes little sense to claim that no woman ever has matched him in writing if for no other reason then it is impossible for him to have read every work by every (English writing) woman ever written.

  49. Aww, thanks Ami! *hugs for you too*.


    I think you’re liking Malcom X and Toni Morrison is a crock of shit. I know you hate them.

  50. thefemalespectator

    The Guardian has a “Naipaul Test” in which you try to identify whether a passage is written by a man or a woman. I’ve never read any Naipaul and actually identified his passage as written by a woman. FWIW.

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