The Withered, Cunty Heart of Darkness. Or, Roissy does feminism.

The icy wasteland of discredited ideologues. With penguins.

Ladies, watch out! Over at the Chateau, the (He)artist(e) formerly known as Roissy has taken a good look at that thing we call feminism, and it seems that he doesn’t like it very much.

[F]eminism is, right down to its withered, cunty heart, a grotesque ideology mounted on a dais of lies. My goal is to mock it so ruthlessly that its practitioners and sympathizers, all of them, find it ever more difficult to pronounce in public life that they are feminists, to drive the true believers so far underground that only their raspy-throated, dusty-muffed sisters-in-arms are willing to entertain their insipid nostrums.

Woah, dude! Slow down for a moment and take a breath.

This is total war, and in total war where the weapons are words, the goal is utter destruction through social ostracism. The icy wasteland of discredited ideologues and crackpots mumbling self-medicating catchphrases and hitting themselves in the forehead is feminism’s inevitable destination.

Wait, let’s do that last sentence again.

The icy wasteland of discredited ideologues and crackpots mumbling self-medicating catchphrases and hitting themselves in the forehead is feminism’s inevitable destination.

Yeah, I thought that’s what he said.

Some other observations:

Marriage and kids are no amnesty from man-hating. Some of the worst ideological feminists are lantern-jawed fuzzfaced quasi-dykes married to mincing beta schlubs who confirm feminist prejudices by their mere existence, not to mention by their sycophantic suckuppery.

Oh and this:

Feminism’s leaders and spokeshos are, almost to a bitch, man-hating termagants who loathe male desire and cheer on third trimester vacuumings.

Nothing more charming than a PUA dickbag who’s against abortion.

Having dispensed with feminism, Roissy goes on to wax pompous about the future of the whole human race. Naturally, he thinks like a PUA version of Hitler.

Thanks to technology, diversity and cognitive stratification, America is entering the period of The Great Culling, a process which will create not only new classes, but even new races, broadly a snarky Eloi and a medicated Morlock, and slowly, as the government cheese runs out, the losers in this culling will begin to procreate less and less, until they are discarded by the invisible crotch of evolution as failed human experiments unable to adapt to the new reality.

The “invisible crotch of evolution?”

I cannot help but think of a certain memorable phrase from one of Man Boobz’ greatest trolls. I am referring, of course, to Arks’ description of the human vagina as a “slobbering crotch-maw.”

Is Arks … Roissy? Is Roissy … Arks?

I don’t think so, but it makes me wonder once again if this whole Chateau Heartiste thing is nothing more than an elaborate hoax.


Toysoldier offers a withering critique of this post.

Wait, did I say “withering?” I meant “withered.”

About David Futrelle

I run the blog We Hunted the Mammoth, which tracks (and mocks) online misogyny. My writing has appeared in a wide variety of places, including Salon,, the Washington Post, the New York Times Book Review and Money magazine. I like cats.

Posted on January 14, 2012, in antifeminism, armageddon, beta males, grandiosity, misogyny, PUA, TROOOLLLL!!, vaginas. Bookmark the permalink. 349 Comments.

  1. Actually I think he’s complaining that it’s manipulative of the women to expect and respond positively to PUA tactics?

  2. Oh, I see. The PUAs are trying to lying and cheat their way into a quick fuck, but it’s the women who are manipulative. Asshole.

  3. *to [lie]*

  4. Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant

    I’m saying women who expect that are just as manipulative as PUAs. Let’s bash everyone who deserves to be bashed, not just the men.

  5. Oh by the way, just so we’re clear, I’m not saying women can’t be manipulative. I’m merely pointing out that you’re giving these guys a pass for acting like assholes.

  6. actually I read a study that said that the women who respond to game are sexist themselves. Makes total sense. Like attracts like.

    Here it is

    Completely explains the few female commentors on Roissy’s blog who basically agree with him that they are inferior to men. All I can do is pity them.

  7. Well, you know – MRAL. It has to be the women who are most at fault, or at least equally at fault, because…something? This particular case of underpants gnomes logic is not quite clear to me.

  8. @MRAL

    I don’t doubt that they become convinced. However, how is it that they are so far removed from women that they don’t know that women, as part of the people package, are varied and diverse? Also, even if it was true that women are attracted to assholes, PUA adherents are then willing to be an asshole just to get sex. Therefore, they are hardly just some misled nice guys.


    I can see it working on women with low self esteem, or just women attracted to assholes. I just have no desire to exploit the former or deal with the latter:)

  9. I wonder about women who hang out on Roissy’s blog the same way I do about our trolls here. What’s in it for them? If they buy into his system then it’s not like they think that they themselves need any “game” to get laid, so what’s in it for them?

  10. So, because some women can be manipulated through their emotional insecurities, that somehow makes them manipulative? This doesn’t even resemble logic.

  11. Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant

    Shadow, the idea is that it’s just playing the odds. If a good chunk of women do like this stuff (unsure about that, but PUAs sure think they do), you’ll have a higher percentage of successes than any of that being yourself stuff. Secondly, if women like assholes, being an asshole really isn’t being an asshole, now is it? Just fulfilling a demand, I’d say.

  12. validation from assholes? the same type of women who like to get their asses kissed from misogynists because they “aren’t like those icky feminists who hate men!”

    or just because they are sexist themselves like that study suggests.

    also this study must have been based off of MRAs and PUAs

  13. Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant

    No, I said women who EXPECT assholish and other mindgamey, demanding, or abusive and contradictory behavior, and reject people for not engaging in that, are emotionally abusive themselves. Or, at least, I think they would be.

  14. Being an asshole is always being asshole. If you pretend you’re one, you are one.

  15. I’m going to keep following you and posting this, MRAL (Man Ringing A Line) until you make the call.

  16. Nice to see you blaming abuse victims, by the way. Real classy.

  17. The thing is, PUAs aren’t suggesting that women like something that men consider assholish. They are saying that you need to BE an asshole to them and they will respond well to it because they’re dumb as bricks. For example, in order to neg someone I have to be willing to deliberately cause insecurity within my “target” so that I can have sex. That makes me an inconsiderate asshole.

    Playing the odds by being asshole, is BEING AN ASSHOLE. It requires actively performing assholish actions. A non-assholish way to play the odds is to find out what type of woman is more likely to be attracted to you, and then approaching those women in particular.

  18. MRAL, I am willing to concede that being yourself is not a good way to get girls.

  19. Seriously, pretending to be an asshole by treating people like shit is like pretending to be a murderer by killing someone.

  20. If a good chunk of women do like this stuff (unsure about that, but PUAs sure think they do), you’ll have a higher percentage of successes than any of that being yourself stuff.

    That depends very much on what constitutes “success.”

    If “success” means “just sticking your dick in someone, anyone, so you can brag about it later” then perhaps following a stupid script might bring you “success.” If, however, “success” involves, say, “having sex that’s at least somewhat fun and enjoyable” or “meeting someone you like being around” or even just “actually having a good time in any way,” then I really can’t see how PUA tactics could conceivably do any good, since you even say that you wouldn’t like or respect the sort of woman you imagine they’d work on.

  21. (And that’s not even getting into how stupid and repulsive the PUAs’ script is, or how bizarre the idea that women are routinely demanding that men insult them and act like dicks is.)

  22. I’m with Dracula–if you act like a dick, you are a dick.

  23. You also have to be a (sexist) asshole to start with to think that women want to be treated like shit, and believe it when someone tells you so, so there’s that too.

  24. ” A non-assholish way to play the odds is to find out what type of woman is more likely to be attracted to you, and then approaching those women in particular.”

    Which is why smart men learn how to ask leading questions in order to figure out what kind of men a given woman likes.

    (It’s particularly funny when you know that they’re doing it, and they know that you know that they’re doing it, and you have a moment of mutual acknowledgement of what’s going on.)

  25. Which is why smart men learn how to ask leading questions in order to figure out what kind of men a given woman likes.

    Ah yes, the subtle art of discerning a woman’s views through carefully-crafted questions such as “Are you a feminist?”

  26. Is the MRAL version “Are you an elitist bitch? Tell me, what do you think of Russell Brand?”?

  27. MRAL doesn’t need to ask, since he already knows that all women are elitist bitches.

  28. That does make things easier, doesn’t it?

  29. Oh hai MRAL can I help?

    If anybody’s curious, my two besties from jr/sr high had a lot of trouble with girls when we were young. One of them was the classic Nice Guy TM, and we had a number of clashes over that as the years passed. The other one was just really shy. We were all pretty nerdy, and pretty awkward. Both of them confessed to me at one point or another that they were too ugly/short/awkward/shy/weird to ever find a girlfriend, and I told them about my various romantic confusions, and we just generally did the “nobody will ever love meeeee” thing that high school students tend to do.

    We’re all 22 now. One of them has been with his girlfriend for the last 3 1/2 years, the other one is getting married this summer. If I were to identify what changed for us, it breaks down into 3 major things: 1) Guy #1 gave up on the “if I’m nice enough to you you’ll owe me sexifyin’, right?” bullshit. 2) We grew up and learned about ourselves. 3) Time passed. More time since you started thinking about dating = more opportunities to date. Obviously. I suspect when I’m 32 I’ll have a heck of a lot more success in sex and love under my belt than I do now.

  30. Of course, it’s possible I won’t have any more successful relationships in the next 10 years or ever, and I’ll be disappointed about that; but I won’t assume it’s because I don’t meet some universal criteria for looks and then resent everybody not sleeping with me for it.

  31. But you will! You know that you will, really! Admit it!

    We’re so cruel to deny MRAL the gotcha that he was hoping for.

  32. I don’t know whether or not PUAs are really successful, but let’s assume they are. Saying they have more sex/girlfriends is like saying a guru as more friends than I do. Maybe so, but don’t expect me to be jealous.

  33. More like saying that a proctologist has touched more butts than I have. Well, yeah, I’m sure he has, but I think that the butt-touching I’ve done has been a lot more fun for both me and the other people involved…

    (For “me” feel free to substitute “any person of any sex and/or sexual orientation who actually sees sex as a fun thing people do together rather than a means of keeping score of how manly you are”.)

  34. Honestly PUA for these men is like the fashion industry for women, only with no social pressure to enforce it. Their whole shtick seems to be “You’re a loser, but if you pay me you might not be. And if you’re still a loser with my help then you’re going to die a loser (and only your fleas will mourn you).”

  35. Alpha Asshole Cock Carousel

    “Being an asshole” is just shorthand for acting like an asshole consistently. See “intent: it’s fucking magic” for a thorough takedown of attempts to dodge taking responsibility for one’s actions.

  36. And Genderbitch, author of classic intent it’s fucking magic lays into PUA from the perspective of somebody who IS interested in people hacking and socially conserved behaviours, as well.

  37. MRAL’s still around? That flounce failed.

  38. @Hellkell: He carefully informed me that he INTENDED to leave that thread, and while he’s PLANNING to leave manboobz, the post was so interesting he just had to chime in.

    My eyes rolled.

  39. hellkell, he’s determined to break the laws of entropy by bouncing back and forth from flounced to unflounced, perpetually!

  40. Raving Researchere here!

    Results of Google Search for Megan Fox “ugly thumbs” About 4500 results,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=202c716ad1e48c82&biw=1024&bih=475

    #1 hit is to a actress archives with link so New York paper that did ‘medical’ analysis of her “ugly thumbs”:

    Several of follow-up sites are various entertainment blogs and there’s references to earlier discussion of her ugly thumbs.

  41. True, most great scientific minds have said such was utterly impossible.. However let us not forget this, from one of the greatest-

    “One day man will connect his apparatus to the very wheelwork of the universe and the very forces that motivate the planets in their orbits and cause them to rotate will rotate his own machinery. Also, a little shitstain named MRAL will not fucking stick his flounce. He of course, was going to, but then he found out somebody called him a shitstain. See, look, there he goes again. See, it works! Also, the Alaskan Death Ray I made is responsible for chemtrails” – Nikola Tesla

  42. There seems to be a “Megan Fox Has Ugly Thumbs “facebook group as well.

    I… yeah, I got nothin’

  43. Putting “ugly thumbs” in quotes is deceptive since it wouldn’t return, say, “Megan Fox’s thumbs are ugly.” Removing the quote gives you a whopping 6.82 million results.

    Oddly, removing the quotes from “Brad Pitt acne scars” actually reduces the results to 133,000…not sure what to make of that.

  44. It’s impossible to tell gender of commenters–but a quick scan of the top/most linked sites show that Pitt is talked more about in more in the context of being a role model for people with acne. He’s also been around longer than Megan Fox — Pitt’s first role on IMDb is a film released in 1987, Fox’s first in 2002.

    I’m involved in a digital humanities project that’s working with developing new programs and methods of analyzing text downloaded from the internet (public sites only), but I doubt even that type of work could do enough of a granular analysis to satisfy MRAL that a double standard about women’s appearance exists! But at least I’ve shown him more than one blog that comments on Fox’s “ugly thumbs” with a different take than on Pitt’s acne (she’s not talked about as a role model for the 1 in 1000 people who apparently have this problem).

    I would hazaard a guess that acne which afflicts a LOT more people than 1 in 1000 is going to get more interest in a wider range of contexts than Fox’s thumbs.

    MRAL: next time you’re in a grocery store, look at all the magazines racked by the cash registers. Count how many feature women’s bodies (even the magazines for women) compared to men’s bodies. There’s GAZILLIONS of research articles on the way women’s bodies are MISrepresented in mass and popular media/culture, both academic and general, including Jim Hines recent entry on his blog showing what it was like to try to mimic the poses of women characters in fantasy novels.

  45. Love the Tesla “quote,” zhinxy! He’s perpetually indignant, so I guess perpetual flouncing isn’t far behind.

    Seriously, he should be banned for his own good.

  46. @Katz: I tried it without the quotes first — but got some ‘fake’ positives — still, you’re right, the results are probably more accurate without the quotes. I kept the quotes on “acne scars” as well–but I didn’t put either of their names in quotes.

    Thanks–that does make a huge difference.

    Goes to do some comparative searches.

  47. Re; Google results for data

    This is why we need to develop new programs to use in gathering and analyzing data from the internet (which is the largest corpus of natural language in writing evah):

    Megan Fox ugly thumbs
    6,830,000 results

    Brad Pitt acne scars
    133,000 results

    Megan Fox “ugly thumbs”
    4,510 results

    Brad Pitt “acne scars”
    622,000 results

    “Megan Fox ugly Thumbs”
    299 results

    “Brad Pitt acne scars”
    59,400 results

    “Megan Fox has ugly thumbs”
    852 results

    “Brad Pitt has acne scars”
    61,200 results

  48. KristenMH: I did forget about codpieces! Pecunium, since you’ve worn one, maybe you can tell me – did/do men pad their codpieces like some women pad their bras? Enquiring minds, etc.

    I’ve never worn a codpiece (I’ve word decorative plackets, but never a formed cod). By their very nature, they are padded. To make them project/stand out, they need to be stuffed.

    As a means of display some men had, “pumpkin slops”, which were hugely padded. This was, oddly, a fashion that moved from the middle classes in (late Elizabeth I) where it was a way to engage in conspicuous consumption without violating sumptuary laws, to the upper classes (Charles I).

    With those, to make them seen at all, codpieces could be really large.

    Some men did, however, have really large codpieces. They looked stupid, IMO, unless they were in some way proportional to the shorthose to which they were attached.

  49. There’s also the fact that “Brad Pitt has acne scars” is, if correct (I’d honestly never noticed), simply a statement of fact. “Megan Fox has ugly thumbs” is a criticism (what would an objectively ugly thumb even look like? are we having thumb beauty contests now?).

  50. *headsdesk* Sorry, html fail. Oh, well, it’s ONE big link back to MRAL’s challenge.

    BTW, challenged him to write four posts about certain topics, and he thought he could get away with a few numbered lines in one post, and changing “issues women face” to “women have issues” (which is ambiguous and could mean something entirely different than noting actualtrufatcct discrimination women face).

    He failed to answer my challenge–amazing how the Trolls so often fail the actual challenges.

  51. For fairness, the numbers need to be normalized against how often each celebrity is mentioned overall.

    Brad Pitt: 306mil

    Megan Fox: 191mil

    Not a huge difference, but you’d have to multiply the Fox results by about 1.5 to compensate for it.

  52. @Katz: Makes sense–this is why the sort of research I’m doing is done by teams because I have no training in quantitative analysis. I keep telling the psychologist we need to get ourselves a statistician sometime soon.

  53. Oh for fuck’s sake. Really, MRAL? Really? No one makes fun of Megan Fox’s thumbs beyond pointing out that they’re weird but she’s still amazingly hot?

    Do me a favor. Google “Megan Fox thumbs.” Go to any blog/newspaper articles (because clubbed thumbs were somehow NEWSWORTHY what the fuck is the world coming to) about Megan’s thumbs and read the comments. You will be treated to countless statements along the lines of “her thumbs are disgusting I would throw up if she touched me with her nasty thumbs,” “I used to think she was hot but that’s just fucking sick,” “Why the fuck doesn’t she get plastic surgery.” “ugly bitch,” and “No wonder they used a hand model why would anyone want to look at those hideous thumbs.”

    On a related note, I have clubbed thumbs. I have had multiple people stare, comment, or even grab my hands to get a better look at my creepy-ass thumbs.

    So in conclusion, people are dicks about everything, including the appearance of female celebrities. Quit pretending that your gender is the cause of your many, many problems. Get offline and get help.

  54. In all the wall of ME MY PROBLEMS FUCK EVERYONE ELSE WHAT ABOUT ME that MRAL has posted on this thread the bit that really sticks out as particularly weird is the comment about me “fawning” over Quackers.

    Fawning : present participle of fawn (Verb)
    Verb: 1.(of a deer) Produce young.
    2.(of a person) Give a servile display of exaggerated flattery or affection, typically in order to gain favor.

    OK, so…in what way is expressing sympathy and going “you can do it!” servile? In what way were any of my comments to Quackers about her romantic woes exaggerated, or theoretically being done to gain favor? Why would I want to try to be servile to gain favor from Quackers, or the commentariat at large? Nobody here is mad at me except MRAL. So, in context, what does his use of that particular word mean?

    I really think that he finds any display of niceness, friendliness, or any sort of positive attention given to women/girls enraging. That’s why he keeps badgering us to “bash” various groups of women, like the women who PUA’s pick up. It’s really wierd. Anything nice said to a woman seems to be interepreted by his twisted little brain as exaggerated, unreasonable, over the top, unjustified, and unfair both to him personally and men as a group. And I think that’s what he wants – for us to treat him the way that he perceives us as treating women.

    Which would already be ridiculous enough given how warped his perceptions are, but he also expects us to do so after having spend months trolling and saying awful things to people here, then briefly promising to change, and then going right back to saying nasty, abusive, sexist things to the female commenters here.


  55. I can’t believe no one’s said anything about Megan Fox’s pointy knees.

  56. MRAL: And sex is about two people. For it to be any good they have to be each thinking about the other having a good time. That’s why Heinlein’s comment in The Notebooks of Lazarus Long that, “Sex should be friendly, otherwise stick to mechanical toys” is all about.

    If you don’t like them, don’t treat them as a human being with legitimate wants and desires, then it’s just wanking with a partner.

  57. While we are discussing female poses, I really like this Lj post. Male vs. Female images on covers, which has comparisons of how males on covers look when someone tries to emulate them, compared to women; as well as some interesting takes on the relative takeaway from the postures.

  58. @Pecunium
    That post was quite awesome, thanks for the link.

  59. Feminism’s leaders and spokeshos are, almost to a bitch, man-hating termagants who loathe male desire and cheer on third trimester vacuumings.

    Why do these idiots keep booing things that make their supposed hunt for pussy easier? Why would you engage in slut shaming if you actively desire sex? Why would you want to make abortion sound terrible? Does he protest birth control despite wanting to eliminate child support?

    Is the answer the simple “Because they’re idios” I think it is?

  60. Rutee: You see, abortion lets women ignore their “natural” gatekeeper function in favor of having sex with people they want to have sex with. Men are horny beasts who can’t be expected to control themselves and will go as far as women “let” them. Therefore, civilization depends on women having huge incentives to not want sex.

    …yes, really.

  61. @MRAL

    No, I said women who EXPECT assholish and other mindgamey, demanding, or abusive and contradictory behavior, and reject people for not engaging in that, are emotionally abusive themselves. Or, at least, I think they would be.

    Exsqueeze me? Baking powder?

    Put someone in a box. Have person with red hat hit person in the box with a stick, twice a day for a month. Get different person with different red hat to hit person in the box with a stick twice a day for an additional month. Ask person afterwards how they feel about people with red hats.

    The moral is: Compassion. Get some. Especially if you expect other people to have compassion for what you’ve had to go through, or the issues you think are important.

    I don’t think it’s necessarily rational for someone to reject all people with red hats because they had bad experiences with a couple. But would I take it personally if they reject me because I’m wearing a red hat, and not because of anything I have or will do to them? No. Because it’s not about me. Instead of blaming someone who avoids people who wear red hats, speak out against red hat abusers. Listen to people who are fearful. Try to understand. Believe it or not, not every reaction someone has to you is personal, or controllable.

  62. Crumb: “Is Roissy someone who is “well respected” (term used lightly) in the PUA community? Or does his brand of misogyny just stand out more than other PUAs’ misogyny?”

    No. He’s virtually unknown in the world of PUA.

  63. Feminism is like a smoke in the air, it is not practical at all. But stupid men are promoting and protecting it.

  64. Between the above and the

    Homosexuality cannot be accepted at all. Homosexuals are not innocent too. They want to complicate the natural sexuality. Today they are misusing the law and human rights as well.

    from the other thread, I’m starting to think that Explore Nature is the MRA Magic Eightball or a MGTOW Fortune Cookie. Do you in fact get your posts from an online generator, EN?

  65. @ MRAL

    MRAL, you will continue to be an embittered, angry loser until you form some relationships with women. You need to explore your sexuality with a woman and stop being so afraid. This will not happen so long as your obvious fear of women continues. There are many, many women who want to explore their sexuality. They have personal fears and personal desires. I imagine in real life you are shy and sensitive – why not try, really hard, to meet a woman, don’t bring your MRA baggage with you. Just treat her how you’d like to be treated yourself. Keep in mind that she probably just wants someone to have some fun with.

    Your current, sad, argumentative, typical MRA lifestyle is going nowhere. You are a pathetic figure. Look 10, 20 years into the future. Do you want to be like one of the bitter clones on AVfM or do you want to be able to look back on this year and last and the phase in your life when you eventually dragged yourself out of the attention seeking quagmire you’re in and addressed your wants and fears.

    There’s two obvious paths. Right now, you’re walking down the one marked “MRA” and glancing at the other one enviously.

    Women frighten you because you view yourself as pathetic. You are pathetic. Stop being pathetic. Start treating others with consideration and be honest with yourself.

    To those manboobzers who will object to what I write, I agree with you, to some extent. MRAL doesn’t deserve any sympathy or anyone’s time. He’s obviously got severe issues and projects them onto women in general. This will continue until he realizes that they are normal human beings like him.

    If he doesn’t realize this, well, he’ll fit right into the MRM and live a very sad and lonely life.

    It’s up to him.

  66. @Sorka

    It really does seem a bit like his posts consist of randomly generated, uh, “insights”.
    I think it makes his posts somewhat endearing.
    He’s just trying so hard, I actually feel a bit bad for not getting upset by his comments ):

  67. Another late arrival, but… Does Roissy… actually have any clue what he’s referencing? The Eloi started off as the beautiful, cultured elite, and the Morlocks as the ugly slaves, yes… but the Eloi became utterly mindless and useless due to not actually doing any work for themselves, and the Morlocks took over, raising their one-time oppressors as cattle and devouring their flesh.

    I mean, characterizing himself as useless and mindless is pretty accurate, but I don’t think it’s what he was going for.

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