Elam: Take My Male Privilege, Please!

Paul Elam, head ranter at A Voice for Men, has a new video out called “You want privilege? You got it!” The thesis: if women really did have the so-called privileges that men have, they’d hate it and want men to take them all back. Because all of these so-called privileges are really giant burdens. Or, as Elam puts it, somewhat more melodramatically, these privileges have “begun to more resemble an anchor around your neck than the helm of a great ship that everyone tells you that you are captaining.”

Here’s the video.

Well, all right, that’s not really Paul Elam. But that little clip does capture pretty well the tone of his latest post, which is indeed about how male privilege is really a terrible burden.

I mean, this is his opener:

I swear by everything holy that the next time I hear some fembot caterwaul about “male privilege,” I am going to find something to break, turn it into shards, and drag the broken pieces across my chest just to distract me from the pain of their increasing stupidity. Just picture me like Martin Sheen, collapsed in a heap of bloody, tearful insanity on the floor of a cheap hotel in Saigon.

Heck, compared to that, Mr. McDuck’s reaction to the news about his “ice cream” was, if anything, rather restrained.

The rest of Elam’s post is, as is typical for him, a rather trite recitation of a number of standard Men’s Rights talking points about male “disposability” written in some of the most ridiculously overblown prose ever seen outside of an Ayn Rand novel.

Elam complains that he hasn’t seen much benefit from his privileges:

Mind you I still don’t know what that privilege is. One time when I was young and very poor I was late on my light bill. I showed the electric company my balls, but they cut my power off anyway. …

Yeah, as someone who’s also had his power cut off, I’m pretty sure they do that with everyone. I’m also pretty sure that no feminist has ever or will ever argue that male privilege means you won’t get your power cut off for nonpayment.

Here’s Elam addressing women as if they’ve traded place with men:

With your privilege comes the right to work on crab boats, drive trucks, work on electric lines, walk into burning buildings and sink into the bowels of the earth digging out coal and other things people find useful.

Apparently having greater occupational choices is scary and bad.

When a ship goes down, or any other life threatening disaster strikes, you have two choices. Be a real woman and die, or treat your life like it has value and have the world shit on you as a coward who refused to perish on cue. There is also the possibility of third option, either die from the disaster so that men can live, or have another woman blow a fucking hole in your face with a pistol because you tried to save yourself.

Yeah, I believe we may have addressed this earlier. Oh, but there’s more:

Like noticing the emperor has no clothes, it may hit you one day when you decide not to offer your seat to a man; when the stares at you from all around seem to come down people’s noses. …

You must learn not to say a word. Not to anyone else, not even to yourself. You must learn to see flames, coal dust, icy saltwater, death and sacrifice for the trappings of power that the world around you thinks them to be.

Says a dude typing out his manifestos on an expensive laptop he conned nagged his followers into buying for him.

And you must be willing to hang your head in shame over that power, even as the world chews you up, spits you out, and gets ready to take its turn with your daughter.

Elam’s rousing conclusion:

So, that is it, ladies. You want my privilege, it is yours. I will gladly hand it over to you this very minute. I am just waiting for you to meet the pre-requisites of disposibilty and an utter lack of self-value. I am waiting for you to woman up to the job, take off your fucking make up and be ready to bleed, blah blah blah look at me I’m mad!

I paraphrased a little at the end there. But, yes, the world champion at seeing male “disposability” everywhere did in fact misspell the word “disposability.” That was all him. And so, believe it or not, is the following:

I, like a Jew gone weary of being called a chosen one, am completely ready for anyone else, and in particular, you, to be chosen.

Personally, I have had about all the privilege I can stand.

Yep. He went there.

Also, I don’t know if you all knew this, but when women serve in the military these days it’s “like a day care camp for them.”

Also, not to pat myself on the back or anything, but my headline is much better than his. Maybe he should get me to write all the headlines on A Voice for Angry Duck Plutocrats Men.


About David Futrelle

I run the blog We Hunted the Mammoth, which tracks (and mocks) online misogyny. My writing has appeared in a wide variety of places, including Salon, Time.com, the Washington Post, the New York Times Book Review and Money magazine. I like cats.

Posted on May 3, 2012, in a voice for men, antifeminism, grandiosity, hypocrisy, I am making a joke, I'm totally being sarcastic, irony alert, misogyny, MRA, narcissism, oppressed men, paul elam, reactionary bullshit, shit that never happened, the fucking titanic, victimhood. Bookmark the permalink. 494 Comments.

  1. You know I personally don’t believe a word you are saying but it’s utterly irrelevant because you know what? Your story is pretty damn irrelevant too. If a few bad incidents with women is suppose to be proof that all feminists are bad then you fail to prove anything. I could share stories of bad feminists or all the bad things men have done to be but that wouldn’t prove much of anything. I used to go on this one forum and this guy was a complete racist and used his bad experiences with poc as a reason for hating them. It’s a shit excuse only a shitty person would use.

  2. Antz: Don’t tell us. Tell a therapist. Tell your wife. Get help, seriously.

  3. Antz, I mean this seriously, if your stories are true, you should be talking about all this with a therapist, not with people on a message board who you continually try to antagonize. And I guarantee you that hanging out on AVFM (and believing the shit Elam et al are shoveling there) isn’t doing you any good either.

  4. William Walter Bingham

    Anthony…. Christ. I’m sorry. I don’t even know what to say. If you ever want to talk, you can reach me at directorblog@gmail.com.

  5. I know Antz’ latest delusion is highly interesting, but I just wanted to re-rail a bit and point out that there’s already a government entity that looks after men’s health issues; It’s called the Department of Health and Human Services. And that’s the male privilege that he and Elam seem to miss, men don’t get a special department, because the main department takes care of them.

  6. Antz, oh boy. When I asked for more details I didn’t mean “was the 17 year old HOTTTTTTTT?”

    But he already mentioned that she never falsely accused him of rape. What else is important about a woman besides her hotness?

  7. William Walter Bingham

    Chibigodzilla, that’s why prostate funding is a tiny fraction of the friggin’ trillions and trillions for breast cancer research. Your misandry denialism is showing.

  8. “Misandry denialism,” William? HAHAHA, OK.

    Tell me, do you have an evening height and a morning height?

  9. Unimaginative

    William, all forms of cancer research are a tiny fraction of breast cancer research. Breast cancer research is a freakishly well-funded phenomenon. People (including men) who develop breast cancer have access to resources that just don’t exist for people who develop, say, ovarian cancer, cervical cancer, throat cancer. The relatively smaller amount of money spent on prostate cancer than breast cancer doesn’t mean misandry, no matter how hard you try to spin it that way.

  10. Zarat, if any of this is real, I’m sorry for what you’ve been through and I hope you seek some kind of counseling to deal with it. But since you’ve repeatedly stated that Antz/Zarat is your “war name” for picking fights with feminists and you feel justified in lying to advance your anti-woman cause, I hope you understand our reluctance to believe you.

  11. Last I heard birth wasn’t a disease in need of a cure.

    Polycystic Ovary Syndrome and endometriosis are diseases, you douchebag. Ones that require treatment with birth control pills.

    I notice Antz hasn’t answered me about his lie about Sandra Fluke’s testimony. Convenient that he and Slavey never address me when I point out the massive flaws in their crap.

  12. @Anthony Zarat: Let me get this straight. On looking back at a young girl you tried to help – a girl who, according to you, seemed well intentioned by accepting your help to improve her grades w/ nary a false accusation, attending AA meetings, not even inconveniencing you w/ the phone bill since she was underaged – you considered it “disgusting,” a pathetic mangina move on your part.
    However, on looking back at a seemingly unstable woman who, according to you, threathened you w/ false rape and suicide, willingly went to the police under false pleas of help, and even threw a lawsuit in your face and weaseled payment out of you, you have “no ill will towards her, and I wish her well”??
    And how convenient is it that that disgusting dropout you opened up was immensely obese, and the woman who tried wreaking havoc on your life was a Freida Pinto clone with a bangin’ bod?
    Yeah, no wonder no one’s buying it, buddy.

  13. AntZ- you were groomed to be sexually molested and raped and also psychologically tortured at the hands of your mother.

    So was I. And I’m female.

    These are not things that “feminists” do- these are things that predators (who can be female as well as male) do to their victims. You are channeling your rage and trauma at an entire group of people based on what is between their legs- is that any less messed up than what you accuse “feminazis” of doing?

    Get some help for your problems- at the very least, you probably have PTSD, and you’ve internalized a lot of anger in your feelings of powerlessness to stop the abuse. Don’t let it eat you alive and cause you to make poisonous decisions about how you treat other people.

    Telling people is the first step. From there, you have to work through it- one step at a time so YOU can be healthy and happy.

  14. *opened up TO
    It’s late, everybody.

  15. MRAL, you know you’re not fooling us, right?

  16. “I guess I have lived an interesting life:

    1) At 13 my professional academic feminist mother gave me to her feminist friends as a sex toy.
    2) At 28 I attempted to help a 17 year old homeless girl. This happened largely because of (1). My mother used sex, guns, and more to train her children as good little manginas. During the drive home, I realized there was a danger of a false rape accusation.
    3) To protect me from (2), I agreed to a sexual relationship with a hot woman who agreed to move in with me on the same day. She then fell obsessively in love with me.
    4) The hot woman used many threats, including false domestic violence, to force me to have sex with her.
    5) When I finally left her, the hot woman called the police and accused me of domestic violence. She was not believed because I had an audio recording of the whole thing.”

    You sound like a pathological liar. I dated one for a few months. It was an interesting experience. They always have a bigger and better story to drop.

  17. Unimaginative

    Last I heard birth wasn’t a disease in need of a cure.

    Pregnancy is a preventable medical condition that not everyone wants to, or should, undergo. A diabetic woman should probably not get pregnant if she can avoid it. A woman who has nearly died of pre-eclampsia in previous pregnancies should probably not get pregnant. A woman who does not want to have children shouldn’t be forced to get pregnant, or stay pregnant.

    Even wanted pregnancies lead to a GREAT MANY, potentially VERY EXPENSIVE medical interventions. Any sensible insurance company would rather spend $ on contraception than $$$$$$ on unwanted pregnancies.

  18. Antz;

    You would need a strong man to carry 134 eggs…”

    Not really. You could get 144 eggs in a dozen egg cartons, which would be awkward, but light enough for most grown people to carry.

    When feminists have no argument, they question the legitimacy of the opponent, or cry “raaaaaaap …”

    Actually, we don’t yell “raaaaap…”, which would be an invitation to restate your arguments in rhythmic verse. We usually yell “Craaaap!” which your arguments usually are.


    What the hell is “buglary”? Sounds dirty. Tell me more.😉

  19. Antz is telling us he has no idea what the laws of his own state are-five years for felony statute of limitations.

  20. Chibigodzilla, that’s why prostate funding is a tiny fraction of the friggin’ trillions and trillions for breast cancer research. Your misandry denialism is showing.

    Very few cancers have the PR that breast cancer does. Actually none of them do. And yet in the line of the cancer research funding numbers, prostate is #2 (a distant one to be sure but still number 2) for funding.

    Of course save the cock is not as nice as save the tatas, that might have something to do with it.


  22. Last I heard birth wasn’t a disease in need of a cure

    Well, in the best case bringing a baby to term is a lot more expensive than birth control, so covering prevention is more sensible for the insurance providers.

    Chibigodzilla, that’s why prostate funding is a tiny fraction of the friggin’ trillions and trillions for breast cancer research. Your misandry denialism is showing.

    1) Way to completely miss my point. *Slow Clap*

    2) “Misandry Denialism” is the name of my Berlin cover band.

    3) As I mentioned earlier, men can get breast cancer too.

    4) There is a significant amount of money for breast cancer research that comes from private donors, not government.

  23. Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III

    Strange; the usual line from MRAs is that false rape accusations are so devastating that even if there are precisely zero legal consequences it still destroys the life of the accused.

    If that’s the case, why should it matter whether or not the statute of limitations is up?

  24. Chibigodzilla, that’s why prostate funding is a tiny fraction of the friggin’ trillions and trillions for breast cancer research. Your misandry denialism is showing.

    Actually, there are a lot of possible reasons why. If you’re looking at federal funding, prostate cancer is funded at the second highest rate per death — only slightly less than breast cancer. And although that’s likely at least partially due to outreach and publicity from breast cancer survivors’ groups, it’s also likely because breast cancer is a faster moving cancer, kills younger people than prostate cancer does, and kills more people than prostate cancer as well.

    This topic always grosses me out, though, and leave it to an MRA to bring it up. Frankly, if you really cared about people with cancer and not about trying to make a quick point about gendered body parts, you’d be complaining (or better yet — actually fucking doing something) about the lack of funding for lung cancer. Highly deadly. Very fast moving. Affects about as many people as either breast cancer or prostate cancer. Funded at a little over 10% of what prostate cancer is funded at, on a per-death basis. And yippie! if you’re an MRA, you’ll be overjoyed to know that slightly more men than women are diagnosed with this horrible disease.

    Anyway, thanks for bringing it up, fuckwit. Nothing better than turning a very real, horrible disease that kills lots of people and ruins families and lives into a cute little point on your imaginary scorecard that tells you how much society is out to get men because chairs are hard or whatever.

  25. I’m just here to say that all those eggs can be neatly pachaged in a small box and are easily portable even for five years olds. What can I say…I work in restaurants.

    Also, Anthony…you are handing out incredibly personal and painful details to people who have no particular love of you. If you’re doing this you must have a driving need to talk to someone. That someone should be a person who truly cares and hopefully also has the training to support you. Please, talk to a doctor or a therapist, your wife a pastor or priest. You don’t have to go it alone and you don’t have to suffer with it so much for the rest of your life.

    For everyone else here…how many times have we spat bitter words over the fact that victims and violence and rape are not believed? Yes, I know Antz is not here in good faith, that he’s lied before. But think about it, not one of us can be sure that he isn’t telling the truth. Not all victims of rape or abuse are the kind of people we can all comfortably stand behind. And it seems to me sometimes that those are the very people who make the best victims.

  26. 2) “Misandry Denialism” is the name of my Berlin cover band.

    I should have gone with “Dixie Chicks cover band”…

    Not really. You could get 144 eggs in a dozen egg cartons, which would be awkward, but light enough for most grown people to carry.

    That one was weird for me too, I mean 144 eggs (jumbo per the USDA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_egg_sizes) would be about 22.5 pounds, which (I think) is not generally considered to be “very heavy”.

  27. Ummm, why do MRA’s conveniently forget that men also have breast tissue as well, and can get breast cancer as well?

    Also, there’s a big difference between the amount of research and money going towards research on cancer and “organizations” that spend a BUTTLOAD OF MONEY ON “awareness” and making money off of pink ribbons and crap.

    Also, cancer research is NOT a linear, easy thing. See below:


  28. @Bee

    I read a comment on youtube the other day, a guy complained to his school that there was no prostate cancer merchandise in his bookstore. He said the next time he went in it was all gone. He considered this a win. So basically if prostate cancer doesn’t get funding, neither should breast cancer. Nothing but zero sum bullshit that makes everyone suffer.

    Here’s the thing about all this pink ribbon shit you keep seeing that I’m surprised no one has even mentioned before because it’s so damn obvious. IT’S TO MAKE A PROFIT FOR GREEDY CORPORATIONS! they know many women spend a lot of money and they use this as a way of tricking them into thinking they’re donating to a good cause when they are actually just buying pink ribbon junk. Feminists generally are critical about the pink ribbon stuff because it doesn’t do much to prevent cancer and it could be selling products with carcinogenic materials. Its nothing but advertising targeted at women and consumers in general. Don’t be fooled by it thinking they care soooo much more about women. I also have a hunch that if they plastered prostate cancer ribbons on all the stuff as they do for breast cancer, many men won’t buy it.

    Cancer funds should be spread out equally and used to actually find a cure, not pedal useless merchandise (I still regret buying those pink pens dammit)

    But I will mention the death rates for breast cancer are also slightly higher for women, just sayin’.

    And yeah, I’m not comfortable calling AntZ a liar either, no matter how he’s behaved here. Victims should always be believed regardless until evidence says otherwise. And you know Toysoldier is just going to be using it to make us look bad too.

    AntZ, I’m sincerely sorry that you had to face such horrible things and I suggest you seek professional help as well to aid you.

  29. Helping her was supposed to be a badge of honor that I would have worn my whole life.

    Barf. Disgusting.

    Indeed! Using real people as living props for your ego is pretty barf-worthy. I’m glad I don’t believe a word of your story.

    But of course, as others have said, if it is true you should see a counsellor instead of divulging your painful past to a group of people who a) you’ve already said you have no problem lying to if you feel it would further your cause and b) don’t like you at all.

  30. oh Nanasha mentioned the pink ribbons…my bad

  31. Here’s my very cynical, jaded, not terribly nuanced opinion regarding, breast cancer charities and breast cancer research (note:not the actual disease itself; that’s srs bisnz):

    Who likes boobs? ~50% of the general population (Assuming there are some ladies who quite like boobs, and some gents who don’t)

    Who really, really likes boobs? Like, enough to donate money? I don’t know, but those who don’t [donate money] don’t matter.

  32. Crumbelievable

    Sometimes I just wish women would stay away from me entirely

    I’m guessing that happens a lot already.

  33. @chibigodzilla: I just read my comment- total satire fail. Point being that men (allegedly) like boobs, and there is a cultural definition of what a boob should look like, and donations tend to go towards causes that make all boobs look like that.

  34. captainbathrobe

    Using my psychic powers…I now predict that there will be outrage–outrage I tell you!–in the manosphere that Antz, a self-professed rape victim, was ridiculed on Manboobz. Our MRA chums will obsess about it until the next outrage. Yawn.

  35. captainbathrobe

    And, jeez, NWO? So 2011. All the cool kids are into other trolls now.

  36. captainbathrobe


    I agree that we shouldn’t assume that Antz is lying about being raped. What baffles me is the notion that he had to allow a crazy woman to move in with him in order to squelch totally hypothetical false rape accusations from a17 year-old alcoholic–as if having said crazy woman in residence would grant immunity from false rape accusations from all other sources. Logic, how does it work?

    Still, who goes out of their way to describe their rapist/abuser as being totally hot? I mean, really? Are we supposed to be jealous, sympathetic, and ashamed of ourselves–all at the same time?

  37. “Are we supposed to be jealous, sympathetic, and ashamed of ourselves–all at the same time?”

    My guess is yes, since Antz is as transparent as a freshly washed window.

  38. Dear God, that was one of the most hilarious cartoon tantrums I’ve ever seen!

    The video was funny too.😀

  39. Regarding the Elam drivel, I kept thinking of this routine. I know Paul didn’t say “white” but this whole thing is about being a white male (which last time I checked, so is Paul Elam, the one complaining) , and how it’s grrrreat.

    I know this is just comedy, not 100 percent, but it’s got chuckles in a couple of places.

    And am so sick of these guys saying that males have to put out fires, so where’s the privilege? They do not have to do those jobs because they are male, and for that discussion I would ACTUALLY LIKE TO TALK TO A MALE THAT DOES ONE OF THE JOBS HE MENTIONS to get his opinion on oppressed-as-a-gender-class perspective.

    Paul Elam is not oppressed or privilege stripped because some other dude does something hard. On the other hand, women in the highest most privileged places can still feel the gender second class, the limitations, the being a WOMAN and not a person squeeze. That’s what this is about. Privilege is actually defined by the people Paul is screaming about, as bring able to have their kind as the default setting in society. Not that life is never hard.
    Privilege means the defaults are yours.

    I grew up with a morbidly obese friend. She explains to me that when she walks into a room, she has to see, not if a chair is available, but if one will fit her, will she break it, etc. I have had the PRIVILEGE of never ever having those thoughts cross my mind unless I walked into a preschool. That is the example I give for privilege. It’s when the default is you and you don’t have to think about stuff. The concept might have a limited scope, but the interpretations of it and complaints about these skewed interpretations are limitless it seems.

  40. Oh and I talked of privilege regarding women at the top, and how they can still be second class, well conversely I hate to break it to Paul, but coal miners have experienced male privilege.

    Now regarding this cancer stuff. The reason breast cancer gets more attention is because one of the groups if effects is young moms. When mothers are dying prematurely, society seems to care. The demographic that prostate cancer effects mostly are much older men that might already have a laundry list of health problems. Not always, of course, but the visibility of a problem and if it effects young children is going to matter. I have no idea why that does not get talked about more in these discussions. But no help for men is being held back, and no feminist conspiracy is advancing or sabotaging either one of these issues.

    Older men need to get check ups when there is NOT a problem and you will see the death rates of prostate cancer go way down. No matriarchy, no feminist conspiracy.

  41. “To protect me from (2), I agreed to a sexual relationship with a hot woman who agreed to move in with me on the same day. She then fell obsessively in love with me.”

    This is what I find the hardest to believe.

  42. I just read Antz’s story. I’m probably just repeating what others said (I read the comments diagonally) but:

    – If your story is true, why would you tell it to a bunch of people you seem to believe to be evil and to whom you’ve already admitted – several times – to be here to troll. Go tell it to your psy.

    – that must have been an epic phone call : “hi, xxxxxx, remember when you told me you wanted to sleep with me? Well I would like you to move in with me, if you don’t mind. Great. Oh, and completely unrelated, but I’ve got a new roommate now, it’s a homeless underage girl I met a few hours ago. Don’t worry, the CPS said it’s cool.”

  43. Tulgey Logger

    Interacting with our trolls gets less and less satisfying the more it looks like they’re doing it for ridiculously sick reasons rooted in abuse. If Antsy is not lying, the reason he’s telling us is he can re-enact antagonism between himself and women, just as he did with the 17 year old by inviting her to live with him and then suddenly deciding jesus christ she’s going to false rape accuse me so I better invite another woman in here and start up a fresh sexual relationship with a strange teenager around the place.

    I’ll assume everything you say is true, Antsy: therefore, quit trolling the internet and see a therapist. Also think critically about things like your obamacare conspiracy theories, they are not healthy.

  44. Zarat, dude, you’ve alluded to the evil feminist mother before, but one would think you’d have brought up the rest of this MRA fairytale previously.

    Like Elam, you have a host of apocryphal stories that prove “MRA theory”. This entire story reads like a Reddit hoax.

    Personally, I think you’ve constructed an entire persona and justify the lying by saying that you’re at war. I think your lies go far deeper than these latest stories.

  45. Antz:

    If half of what you say is true you need help from a psychiatrist. We can’t help you and I’m not at all sure why you ‘re telling us.

  46. I’m sorry, when was the last time he worked a coal mine or ran into a burning building? Oh, right, never? Oh, ok. The second we start talking about things that happen to a huge percentage of men in this society and not just a couple of dangerous job choices, I might be inclined to listen.

  47. Regardless of whether DSK’s encounter in New York was rape or not, his fondness for sticking his cock into just about everything that moves (provided it’s human, female and alive) has been notorious for decades. So if you’re trying to come up with a definitive example of a poor innocent victim of evil womanly wiles, he’s not the most obvious candidate.

  48. Yeah, I heard that on the radio this morning, though without the details.

  49. Here’s the thing about all this pink ribbon shit you keep seeing that I’m surprised no one has even mentioned before because it’s so damn obvious. IT’S TO MAKE A PROFIT FOR GREEDY CORPORATIONS! they know many women spend a lot of money and they use this as a way of tricking them into thinking they’re donating to a good cause when they are actually just buying pink ribbon junk. Feminists generally are critical about the pink ribbon stuff because it doesn’t do much to prevent cancer and it could be selling products with carcinogenic materials.

    DingDingDing!! Komen was recently exposed to be doing just that. They spend a tiny fraction of their money on research, pay their president half a million dollars, spend millions of dollars suing other groups who dare use the “for the Cure” phrasing or pink ribbons, and the organization is run by anti-abortion activists. I sent $100 to Planned Parenthood after recently learning this.

  50. Alpha Asshole Cock Carousel


    Yep. I don’t know how much more aware Americans can be of breast cancer. Seems like the whole raising awareness thing has been achieved many times over, and so now instead of buying pink crap we should be, you know, making sure people with cancer have access to affordable care.

  51. Of course save the cock is not as nice as save the tatas, that might have something to do with it.

    Personally, I would totally donate money to a “SAVE THE COCKS” initiative. Not only would it help, imagine the fundraising calendars!😀

  52. Alpha Asshole Cock Carousel

    Personally, I would totally donate money to a “SAVE THE COCKS” initiative. Not only would it help, imagine the fundraising calendars!

    Without the cocks, my carousel would just have benches, so I have a personal interest in saving the cocks.

  53. I’ll agree that accusing Zarat of blatantly lying doesn’t really sit well with me either. However, his story does have a “feminist witch trial” ring to it. If we believe him, it’s because of course all feminists believe stories of rape and that’s how feminists win their feminist badges of honor. He himself complained in the same thread about women always “crying rape”. If we don’t believe him, it’s because we’re misandrist feminists who think all men are lying liars and we really don’t care about his suffering anyway because we’re all horrible people who only care about certain rape victims. If you swim you die, if you drown you die.

    However, I’ll assume his story is true. Dude, I don’t know what you hope to accomplish by telling people you antagonize on a weekly/daily basis about this. You need help. You need to talk to a therapist or your wife. Whatever it is you are looking for by unloading, you are not going to find it in a bunch of strangers on the internet. And quite frankly, if your story was meant to be a “so there!” to our arguments, you failed quite miserably. All you have proven is that sometimes women are bad people. I’ve been abused by women too. Sexually, physically and emotionally I’ve been taken advantage of by both women and men. I’ve had men and women take advantage of me financially. By your standards, I’d have license to hate the world. But I don’t. Some days I want to, but I don’t.

    I’m not going to play the “I’m a better victim” game, because really, it’s never easy getting over shit like that. Judging someone for their healing process doesn’t sit well with me. However, I am going to tell you that you are not going to find the help you need in the MRA movement. They have proven they don’t really care about rape victims or victims of domestic violence, and only give lip service to caring about those things when they effect men. You aren’t going to find healing in the MRM. Only more hate.

    Last, I’ll add that taking a total stranger into your house only to be taken advantage of by said stranger, again, proves nothing. As I and several others have mentioned several times before, having privilege is not a guarantee that nothing bad will ever happen to you. And only a privileged jackass would think that’s what having privilege means.

  54. “SAVE THE BOOBIES” is terrible because breast cancer treatment usually doesn’t save the boobies. It saves the woman.

  55. RE: Zarat

    As a male survivor of sexual abuse, Zarat’s story makes me D: like mad. Dude, for the love of god, GET HELP.

    And away from us! Seriously, it’s creepy as hell to antagonize and be a dick to people and then whiplash around and divulge uber-personal trauma stories like that. I don’t know what you hope to acheive, but it won’t be anything good for your mental health, because you do not like us, and also WE DO NOT LIKE YOU. As a human being, I want you to be happy and healthy, but you’ve been a douche to me and I don’t feel personally responsible for your trauma.

    Like, I know the long-rippling effects of sexual abuse. I was abused by a man. And yet somehow, I have not been tearing apart books in stores, or inviting homeless boys into my house. If you find yourself reenacting these behaviors, you need help, dude. GET IT. I promise you, it does in fact exist and despite my distrust of the mental health system in general, there ARE male-sympathetic therapists for sexual violence. Just… gaahhh!

    RE: Cliff (why the new name, by the way?)

    I’ve always found “save the boobies” gross, myself. It’s like, wtf, when my pop-pop had lung cancer, it wasn’t about saving his lungs, it was about saving HIM. (We didn’t. RIP, Pop-Pop.) To flatten him to his affected body parts is just… insulting and creepy!

    Of course, I happily paid someone to hack off my boobs with a knife, so perhaps I’m biased against the cause of boobery.

  56. pillowinhell: Since we are talking about the draft… Take a look at the US stop loss program

    Yeah, stop-loss is a passive draft, sort of. It’s more used as a lever. When one is stop-lossed one has two choices, extend/reenlist, or be stuck.

    I say this because when one’s active duty contract is expired, and one is kept in uniform by stop loss, things like promotions, schools, etc. are prohibited. Since stop loss is by job, not individual soldier, this means a lot of people in mission critical jobs are kept in.

    Extending is a gamble, because stop-loss orders are time limited, and have to have a 24 hour gap between re-issuance. If you are willing to forgo promotions, you can wait out the order. A stop-loss can’t keep an Active Duty service member in the service for more than one year.

    One of my fellows was stop-lossed for nine months, and we were getting ready to deploy. A few weeks before the deployment order there was a gap in the stop-loss for his specialty.

    Civvie-street for him.

    Where there is a more problematic passive draft is the rules on reserve component soldiers and deployments. A deployed reservist is stop-lossed for the duration of the deployment. As a result I know someone who was stop-lossed, and was nine-months past his contract expiration when we deployed. We were deployed for 14 months, so he was kept in the Army for more than two years after his contract expired.

    That doesn’t happen to active duty soldiers.

    . Also, once you’ve finished your enlistment, you’re polaced on the reserved list. Which means you can be called back to active duty on a moments notice. That’s what has US MRAs so angry.

    That’s not quite true. All enlistments are for eight years. They all have an “Inactive Ready Reserve” time of passive participation at the back end.

    So contracts are “X by Y”. I, for example, did a “6 by 2” to get better benefits. I’ve seen recruiters hide a lot of things, and lie about others, but I’ve never known one (nor of one, though it’s possible; and the troops in question didn’t know, and so didn’t complain) to not mention that aspect of the contract.

    Once those eight years are up, there is no further obligation.

  57. Oh, and Antzie… I’ll be away for a while, I have IMPORTANT work to do, and it doesn’t allow me to peruse the internet while I do it.


  58. Anthony Zarat, the sexual abuse that you endured sounds awful. The civil servants that were supposed to help you failed at their jobs abysmally. The people that victimized you, both when you were a child and as an adult committed evil acts, and if the world were just they would be called to account for the suffering that they caused you. No one should have to go through what you went through, no one.

    Now, I cannot tell you best how to recover, but the path you are on does not seem to be helping you. You seem to want people that are the same gender as the individuals that hurt you to suffer by proxy for the harm that was done to you. Your desire to see harm come to people that superficially resemble the people that abused you has led you to join a movement that pushes the myth of wide spread false accusations of rape, a myth that harmed you personally when the police refused to investigate the crimes committed against you. The MRM also puts forth the idea that men are naturally sexually aggressive and women passive, a myth that most likely influenced the officers refusal to investigate individual that raped you.

    You turn the anger at being abused on the very people trying to fight against sexual abuse, based solely on the gender of your attackers, this is counterproductive.

  59. AntZ:

    Predictably, some were baffled and clueless, and began the tired citation drumroll (instead of thinking for themselves):

    A page from NWO’s book! “Be an independent thinker, don’t look to reality to back up your opinions.” Or by “think for yourself” does he mean “don’t ask me to do the research to support my own arguments”?


    Naturally, I was confused by the intensity of your hostility, on a day when I have been (mostly) civil and upbeat

    I know, right? It’s almost like people remember you from before.


    Oh, AntZ, do you have that story in a Word doc ready to deploy? It’s so cute. Too bad it never happened.

    Eh, something like it might have happened, in the sense that it doesn’t violate any yet-discovered laws of physics. But I’m not sure what point it’s trying to make. Whatever it is, I suspect it doesn’t actually make it.


    Cliff, I’d prefer to focus on the Duke case, because that, to me, is a classic false accusation case.

    So even you admit DSK probably did it.


    At 13 my professional academic feminist mother gave me to her feminist friends as a sex toy.

    That doesn’t prove feminism is evil when you report it either.

    I mean, I’m trying not to even address the truth of this. I’m still scarred (not really) by going through this with TS last year. “A feminist did something horrible and claimed feminism as zir justification” =/= “feminism is horrible”. Plain and simple.


    That one was weird for me too, I mean 144 eggs (jumbo per the USDA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_egg_sizes) would be about 22.5 pounds, which (I think) is not generally considered to be “very heavy”.

    Don’t forget the styrofoam, though.

  60. You can buy twelve dozen eggs packed in a cubit foot box, no styrofoam. They use recycled cardboard to layer the eggs in. Light and easy to carry, and nicer to the enviroment.

  61. @Kakanian, I don’t know that viagra is fully covered. To my knowledge most health insurance companies will cover part of it, and I think even medicare does, but not all. Because, again, it’s not preventative. That’s why I feel it’s bad to compare the two. Viagra isn’t preventative, and in some cases can be hurtful. BC is preventative and (most of it) is relatively safe.

    The only reason I compare the two is because it illustrates our society’s mentality towards male and female sexuality. It’s totally reasonable for a man to not only have sex, but to have coverage for something that helps him have more/better sex. Meanwhile, a woman who simply wants access to preventative care in the event that she might have sex is called a slut on a national radio station.

    @Antz I would really hate to see an MRA do a college term paper. “WHAT DO YOU MEAN I HAVE TO CITE MY SOURCES?”

    Women can also trade sex for food and shelter.

    I love how you treat this as if it’s a privilege. When we discuss dangerous jobs, this is an incredibly dangerous job which puts women at a huge risk of rape, abuse, assault, STDS, pregnancy, slavery (yes, there are sex slaves who have absolutely no freedom), and murder. And if this was an easy job you wouldn’t hear of all the prostitutes addicted to hard drugs and alcohol just to get through it. Then we can talk about the toll having repeated sexual intercourse, all day, every day, takes on a vagina, especially when you aren’t actually aroused.

    And then there’s the issue that not all prostitutes are women. There are male prostitutes. So you do have that “option” if you really want it men. I don’t think you do though. Sex as a job is not fun and care free. It’s not like having sex with your boyfriend or a guy you met at the bar. And no, you’d probably have to have sex with men if you wanted to make some money off it. Not gay? Well, do you honestly believe that the women prostitutes are attracted to the men they’re sleeping with? FFS dude.

    This is what I find so damn galling about a lot of the feminists. The fact remains that a woman can essentially ruin a man’s life at any time with a false accusation, a social phenomenon that the feminists are mostly responsible for. And yet they expect men to be receptive to them? It makes no sense!

    What I find galling is that you treat the actions of a few as if they are the actions of all of us. You don’t think that men lie to police officers? What about the rapists who lie and say they didn’t actually rape and put the victim through hell in court, lying, saying there was consent involved and bringing up the victim’s sexual history as a defense? You think I should hold the fact that mostly men do this to women in court all the time against you personally? You think this doesn’t ruin women’s lives?

    A woman’s life can be “essentially ruined” by a rapist at any time. A woman’s life can be “essentially ruined” by a man spreading rumors about her sexual history to her friends, family, the internet, other men, who will then openly mock, harass, and degrade her. Then sometimes the other men who hear said rumors think it’s ok to “take” what she “wanted” based on her “sexual history” and treat it like that history gave them consent. You don’t think this happens at least as frequently as false rape accusations?

    If you want to lump the actions of bad people in with the actions of everyone else that’s your own problem. But I don’t see you complaining about the lives that are ruined by false accusations of murder, theft, assault, etc. You just hone in on the option that allows you to be as misogyinistic as you possibly can be.

    Bostonian. Come on now. Duke. Strass-Kahn. Many, many, many that I know personally, though their names will mean nothing to you.

    Sometimes I just wish women would stay away from me entirely, or at least, women I do not trust implicitly. Anthony can vouch for me here.

    So your buddies were accused of rape but told you that they didn’t do it so you believe them?

    Sometimes I wish the men who grab my ass, try to force me to take potentially roofied drinks at the bar, and catcall me would stay away from me. Sometimes I wish I could live my life freely without the fear that I might wind up getting raped and later get blamed for it due to my “lack of responsibility.” You treat it as if women are the only ones capable of hurtful behavior, manipulation, lies, etc.

    I’m not gonna even go there with Antz’s story. It’s not fair for me to say that he was never raped just because he regularly trolls here. I just do not think venting this here is doing anyone any favors. Not your cause and not your mental health. Being angry at other feminists for the actions of one sick feminist is not going to change what happened, or make anything any better. Just as you don’t want women to see all men as rapists, all women should not be held responsible for the actions of a few.

  62. @EEB, I wish you could leave that comment about birth control stuck at the top of every comments section on the internet that even touches upon the subject.

    And for every guy who complains that they don’t get free condoms so blah blah blah,

    1. Planned Parenthood will give those to everyone. They’re just there for the taking to PREVENT babies and STDS. They aren’t gonna kick you out because you’re a guy. And so when people attack Planned Parenthood, they’re also attacking your access if you’d dust the cobwebs out of your brains and head over there for some.

    2. I would fully support condoms under health insurance. I support anything that gives people more power, more easily, over their sex lives. That argument only matters if people are opposing your access, which I have yet to see a feminist do.

    Sometimes it is amazing to me just how many MRA problems, made so much worse by straw-feminism, would be fixed by… actual feminism. *headdesk*

    No no no, feminism is all about tricking men in to child support, didn’t you know that? You’re obviously not taking the right women’s studies classes.

    There’s barely no place in world were you can be 100% sure you’ll have no natural disaster, man or not. And people can’t always afford, for a multitude of reasons, starting with money and family, to chose a risk-free place to live. Same thing for dangerous jobs: when you need the money, the choice isn’t always very big. And even for people who do choose the dangerous jobs, they still have a fucking hell of a right to complain if their work place’s safety is neglected. And least and most obvious: paying bill isn’t easy. “Just sell some shit to pay them” is an insulting and idiotic answer to a serious issue people face.

    I get where you’re going with this but he treats these things like they’re male-only problems. As if I have never worried about paying a bill just because I’m a woman and my “vagina money” covers all that shit. Plenty of women hold dangerous jobs as well that they got stuck with due to a lack of options. But he wants to act as though all/most men are forced to this type of work just because they’re guys. Most men have pretty reasonable expectations of safety in the work place. I mean, if he is concerned about the danger of these jobs he needs to speak out about finding safer ways to do them, not complain that the evil feminists are forcing men into jobs that are dangerous. That’s the shitty economy doing that. And now that women CAN joing the military some are. Women face just as much financial turmoil that leads them into a life that endangers them. This is a class issue, not a gender issue.

    But, you know, that’s the nature of privilege. You can afford to be clueless because none of it has any impact on you personally.


  63. I always laugh when this happens:

    1. Guy says douchey thing
    2. I explain why thing is douchey
    3. Guy condescendingly accuses me of hating men (usually adding in a pet name like “sweetie”)

    I don’t hate men. I hate dealing with douchey people. It’s sick how they twist my protests against their douchiness as “hating men.” Last time I checked, I don’t hate any of my male friends. (Though of course MRAs would suggest these men are “manginas” and are head-nodding what I say so they can sleep with me and “win.” Not a one of them has ever nailed me, thanks.)

    My male friends stay my friends mostly because they fully understand how to just be people, treat me like I’m also just a person, and do everything they can to not exploit their privilege. They can’t help that they’re privileged for being male in most important areas of life, just like I can’t help that I’m privileged for being white. What a person does in this situation is recognize that privilege exists, understand what keeps it there, and do the best possible job to not support the status quo that makes the world unequal. For anyone.

    As for Mr. “I don’t understand why people think I’m privileged because I totally can’t see it” Elam: EXACTLY. It’s invisible to you because you’ve always benefited from it. And all the ranting you’ve done regarding the burden of the man in our society? IT’S WHY THE PATRIARCHY IS BAD FOR MEN TOO. We know that. Feminism is not women against men, wanting to be better than men, wanting to steal their privilege for ourselves. Feminism is about LOOKING AT THE INEQUALITIES and TRYING TO MAKE THEM GO AWAY. We don’t want the world to be unequal in the ways that it punishes you (or that you perceive that it punishes you) either.

  64. Also, AntZ? “The new Obamacare institutions directly discriminate against men”? Which you support by mentioning that departments for women’s health care exist, as if that fact makes an anti-male sentiment self-evident? The existence of a GENDER-based research program is interpreted as FOR WOMEN? Male is a gender, you know. Assuming that the word “gender” refers to “women’s issues” is suggesting that male is the default. Which is a problem because anything that actually is for women only is treated like it’s withheld from men, when the only reason that’s going to be true is when men physically don’t have the body parts to get treated for those specific issues. The fact that there is no “women’s prostate cancer” organization is not misogynistic, so all the fields of study and programs that treat and nurture ladyparts are not out to punish you.

    “Asking for citations is a feminist trade-mark.” Last time I checked it’s the way people suggest that they didn’t just shit an idea out of their heads. It’s your own fault if you do that and people complain that it stinks.

  65. Elam said:

    With your privilege comes the right to work on crab boats, drive trucks, work on electric lines, walk into burning buildings and sink into the bowels of the earth digging out coal and other things people find useful.

    David said:

    Apparently having greater occupational choices is scary and bad.

    So if a man is coerced into choosing a high-paying job over his health and lifestyle, he actually is enjoying his greater occupational choices. It seems a man can get a bayonet through his chest and David will still find some roundabout way to paint that as privilege.
    That being said, I do appreciate you having the courage to allow dissenting views on your site, David. That openness is common in the antifeminist, but quite rare in the prickly feminist.
    The feminists may now scream about how smart they are and how dumb everyone else is. It’s on a little blog, it’s just a little game.

  66. Oh look, its Cant Fact Finder


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