Elam: Take My Male Privilege, Please!

Paul Elam, head ranter at A Voice for Men, has a new video out called “You want privilege? You got it!” The thesis: if women really did have the so-called privileges that men have, they’d hate it and want men to take them all back. Because all of these so-called privileges are really giant burdens. Or, as Elam puts it, somewhat more melodramatically, these privileges have “begun to more resemble an anchor around your neck than the helm of a great ship that everyone tells you that you are captaining.”

Here’s the video.

Well, all right, that’s not really Paul Elam. But that little clip does capture pretty well the tone of his latest post, which is indeed about how male privilege is really a terrible burden.

I mean, this is his opener:

I swear by everything holy that the next time I hear some fembot caterwaul about “male privilege,” I am going to find something to break, turn it into shards, and drag the broken pieces across my chest just to distract me from the pain of their increasing stupidity. Just picture me like Martin Sheen, collapsed in a heap of bloody, tearful insanity on the floor of a cheap hotel in Saigon.

Heck, compared to that, Mr. McDuck’s reaction to the news about his “ice cream” was, if anything, rather restrained.

The rest of Elam’s post is, as is typical for him, a rather trite recitation of a number of standard Men’s Rights talking points about male “disposability” written in some of the most ridiculously overblown prose ever seen outside of an Ayn Rand novel.

Elam complains that he hasn’t seen much benefit from his privileges:

Mind you I still don’t know what that privilege is. One time when I was young and very poor I was late on my light bill. I showed the electric company my balls, but they cut my power off anyway. …

Yeah, as someone who’s also had his power cut off, I’m pretty sure they do that with everyone. I’m also pretty sure that no feminist has ever or will ever argue that male privilege means you won’t get your power cut off for nonpayment.

Here’s Elam addressing women as if they’ve traded place with men:

With your privilege comes the right to work on crab boats, drive trucks, work on electric lines, walk into burning buildings and sink into the bowels of the earth digging out coal and other things people find useful.

Apparently having greater occupational choices is scary and bad.

When a ship goes down, or any other life threatening disaster strikes, you have two choices. Be a real woman and die, or treat your life like it has value and have the world shit on you as a coward who refused to perish on cue. There is also the possibility of third option, either die from the disaster so that men can live, or have another woman blow a fucking hole in your face with a pistol because you tried to save yourself.

Yeah, I believe we may have addressed this earlier. Oh, but there’s more:

Like noticing the emperor has no clothes, it may hit you one day when you decide not to offer your seat to a man; when the stares at you from all around seem to come down people’s noses. …

You must learn not to say a word. Not to anyone else, not even to yourself. You must learn to see flames, coal dust, icy saltwater, death and sacrifice for the trappings of power that the world around you thinks them to be.

Says a dude typing out his manifestos on an expensive laptop he conned nagged his followers into buying for him.

And you must be willing to hang your head in shame over that power, even as the world chews you up, spits you out, and gets ready to take its turn with your daughter.

Elam’s rousing conclusion:

So, that is it, ladies. You want my privilege, it is yours. I will gladly hand it over to you this very minute. I am just waiting for you to meet the pre-requisites of disposibilty and an utter lack of self-value. I am waiting for you to woman up to the job, take off your fucking make up and be ready to bleed, blah blah blah look at me I’m mad!

I paraphrased a little at the end there. But, yes, the world champion at seeing male “disposability” everywhere did in fact misspell the word “disposability.” That was all him. And so, believe it or not, is the following:

I, like a Jew gone weary of being called a chosen one, am completely ready for anyone else, and in particular, you, to be chosen.

Personally, I have had about all the privilege I can stand.

Yep. He went there.

Also, I don’t know if you all knew this, but when women serve in the military these days it’s “like a day care camp for them.”

Also, not to pat myself on the back or anything, but my headline is much better than his. Maybe he should get me to write all the headlines on A Voice for Angry Duck Plutocrats Men.


About David Futrelle

I run the blog We Hunted the Mammoth, which tracks (and mocks) online misogyny. My writing has appeared in a wide variety of places, including Salon, Time.com, the Washington Post, the New York Times Book Review and Money magazine. I like cats.

Posted on May 3, 2012, in a voice for men, antifeminism, grandiosity, hypocrisy, I am making a joke, I'm totally being sarcastic, irony alert, misogyny, MRA, narcissism, oppressed men, paul elam, reactionary bullshit, shit that never happened, the fucking titanic, victimhood. Bookmark the permalink. 494 Comments.

  1. So if a man is coerced into choosing a high-paying job over his health and lifestyle, he actually is enjoying his greater occupational choices.

    Yeah. “I can choose to work a dangerous, well-paid job or a safe minimum wage job” is one more choice than “I can work a safe minimum wage job.”

    If a woman is from the same area and socioeconomic stratum as a man who’s working in a coal mine (firefighting, electric line repair, and crab fishing are all really good jobs that I’d love to have so I’m not including them here), then she’s not working a cushy office job herself, you know? She’s probably waitressing or something similar, and if she could choose whether to be a waitress or work in the mines, it wouldn’t be great options but it would be one more option than she has now.

    (This is of course in the alternate universe where women don’t work in coal mines, while in our universe, they do. So it’s all sort of a moot point.)

  2. Hi Factless: Can you explain how exactly men are coerced into, say, going into fishing or logging? Is it a different kind of coercion than women experience to go their jobs, or are women entirely free of coercion of any kind in the job market? So curious to hear your no doubt interesting theories.

  3. Seriously, someone who thinks “firefighter” is a painful job that men hate being coerced into is so disconnected from reality I can’t even.

    Firefighter hiring (in areas that use professionals rather than volunteers) is ridiculously competitive because it’s a glamorous job with tons of loaf time and high pay and government benefits. Guys don’t tearfully sign up at the firehouse to keep the debt collectors at bay, they volunteer and train and schmooze to get in because it’s a great goddamn job.

  4. Crab fishing is dangerous and extremely difficult, but it’s also a ton of money for a few weeks’ work. Living in Seattle, I knew a lot of guys who went up to Alaska to work in the crab season, not because they were coerced out of desperation, but because if your boat does well you’ll earn enough to buy a nice car in less than a month. (And most of them did buy cars and fancy TVs and such when they got back, regardless of whether they were supporting a kid or not.)

    Poor men, having the option to do that.

  5. Fishing (maybe not crab fishing) is the most dangerous job in the U.S.:

    Fatality rate per 100,000 workers: 116
    Median wage: $27,880

    I’m just trying to figure out how that coercion works, and how feminism is to blame for it.

  6. Ah Cliff, is that median wage misleading because it’s seasonal? I got it from CNN, maybe not the most reliable/thorough source.

  7. (Oy, now I’m posting too much, but anyway.)

    The sad thing is, this idea of industrial or extraction jobs as the jobs of desperation is largely a thing of the past in the US. These days, the shit jobs that you take when you’re behind on your child support are much more likely to be some variety of customer service.

    The idea of a guy taking a factory or fishing job out of sad desperation is almost charming lately. Those are good jobs and there aren’t nearly enough of them. “Sad desperation” is when you sign up to wear a silly vest and try to get everyone who checks out at your lane to go for the Extended Warranty.

  8. Cloudiah – I don’t know about fishing overall, just Alaskan crab fishing, because those were guys I knew personally.

    The Alaskan crab fishing is stupid dangerous, those guys absolutely get injured all the time because they’re out on rough seas working heavy equipment on about an hour of sleep. But they only do it for a few days or weeks at a time, and then they come home with up to $50-100K if their boat does well.

    (source: http://www.businessweek.com/careers/content/sep2006/ca20060914_736742.htm)

  9. Pervocracy:

    Firefighter hiring (in areas that use professionals rather than volunteers)

    The fact that there are volunteers is revelatory. People aren’t doing it for free because it’s so awful or the only other option is to starve in the streets. If the only draw of firefighting were the paycheck, no one would do it without one.

    And the silly-vest jobs don’t seem so sad because they’re indoors and relatively safe, and the damage to your health is slow and invisible. But I suspect there’s some circular reasoning going on: it’s not a shitty job, because if it were, women wouldn’t deign to do it.

  10. You’re not posting too much unless all 10 Recent Comments are you! (Is my theory.)

    I wonder how women are coerced into fishing, when they are. Or do women choose it freely, and only men are coerced?

  11. Of course, it is true that men (and women) (and children) are coerced into working, but somehow I don’t expect that is what Factless is talking about. Not just adults, but children too. So what makes men’s coercion special?

  12. Hershele – Volunteer firefighters do get paid. But they get paid much less and often they get paid per-call so it’s unpredictable.

    Which doesn’t really change the situation–that people are doing it because they find firefighting fun and glamorous and fulfilling, not because they’re desperate to make their next child support check–but FYI.

    …And by the way I know this because a very close female friend is a volunteer firefighter.

  13. RE: Pervocracy

    $50-$100K? Holy crabcake, that’s like, 4-10 years of my wages! And this is the best job I’ve ever had. (The only injuries I’ve gotten are papercuts. DID narrowly miss getting crushed by a very large, very heavy filing cabinet though. Thank god for that; that thing would’ve caused some major damage.)

    Also, I’ve worked some grimy agricultural like jobs before. Weeding, working with cows (shit EVERYWHERE), scrubbing toilets. I have to say, horrible as the toilet scrubbing was, it was a way different kind of misery than the customer service jobs I’ve also worked. Like, sure, scrubbing shit isn’t fun, but at least I’m not being screamed at by people for things I have no control over and forced to smile all the time. The toilets and the cows don’t care about the look on my face!

    If things went bad, I’d do menial cleaning before I did fast food stuff again.

  14. Kendra, the bionic mommy

    My uncle is a volunteer firefighter. I ought to ask him if he feels oppressed by there being more male firefighters than female ones. I’m pretty sure he’d just laugh at the question, though. He volunteered because he likes helping people, and it was not a choice made due to coercion. MRA’s live in a different reality than the rest of the world.

  15. Unimaginative

    I grew up in Fort McMurray, home of the dirty, dirty tarsand mines, and worked at one of the mines for 10 years. All of my siblings still work for mines. About half of the haul truck drivers in all of the mines are women. I don’t know the exact percentage, but huge number of the engineers, chemists, technicians, and technologists are women. There are lots of female welders, electricians, heavy equipment technicians, blasters, and trades of every kind. It’s really no big deal. EXCEPT when these lady workers get a new (male) co-worker or supervisor from somewhere else.

    My SIL has been an electrician for over 30 years, and the last 10 she’s been dual-ticketed as an instrumentation mechanic. She has a lot of industrial experience, and by all reports, she very good at what she does. A couple of years ago, her company hired a new supervisor for her shift from a less-economically-blessed area of Canada, and he Did Not Approve of uppity bitches thinking they could work alongside the menzzz. He was so insulting and condescending she quit a couple of months later. Not so she could sit around eating bon bons; she took one of the couple of job offers she gets every other month.

    Most of the women who encounter sexist bullshit on the job (which happens much less these days than 20 or 30 years ago) seem to be getting it from men who are from someplace else. Local guys grew up knowing women can and do excel in any field that exists in the oilsand industry, because their sisters, mothers, and grandmothers have all done it. Anyone who wants to parrot misogynist bullshit has to pretty much own the misogyny and be blatant about it. Stupid arguments like Elam’s just fall apart as soon as they’re spoken, and everyone in my hometown knows it. Except the assholes who come from elsewhere, where women are edged out of good-paying jobs to make way for the men who are “supporting families”.

  16. I’m just trying to figure out how that coercion works, and how feminism is to blame for it.

    Feminism is designed to pass resources from men to women. It does that through child support and alimony. Additionally, governmental social organizations frequently favor women, especially single mothers, and will tax individuals and corporations to provide those handouts. These governmental social organizations are frequently endorsed by feminist organizations, and many feminists will rush to the organizations’ defense during more austere times. In order to obtain a given standard of living or financial security, men will have to earn more money and hence take on jobs they normally would not.
    Now, I am all for social investment, but I want investment, not money that people can spend however. If a man pays child support, put some of that into a fund so it actually goes to the kid, etc.

  17. As I said before, little brother is a volunteer firefighter, and dying to be a full-time one. The volunteers of the village all put together the money they earn each time, plus the money from the calendars, to buy things like nice vacations on a sunny beach. They can afford it, because they all have a day job, except for the young ones, who live at their parents’. That’s how much they don’t need the money.

    On a related note, I will refrain to mention to him that there are adventurous (aka dangerous) jobs in which you can earn 50K in a few weeks of summer work, or he’ll be in Alaska before we have the time to say “be careful”. (he doesn’t do fire-fighter for the money, though he’d like to live on it, but video games don’t buy themselves ^^)

  18. 1. Feminism invents the fact that children need money to survive.
    3. Men are forced to become firefighters despite their weeping objections.

  19. @swankivy
    “They can’t help that they’re privileged for being male in most important areas of life, just like I can’t help that I’m privileged for being white.”

    Perhaps you could rattle off a few of these male privileges.
    Are there quota’s for employment for men dictated by the State?
    How about men only scholarships?
    Men friendly spaces in the workplace?
    Do men have any reproductive rights?
    Maybe business start up funding for men only?
    An all mens lawyers association?

    How about white privilege?
    White quota’s?
    White business opportunities?
    White scholarships?

    Apparently our defintion of privilege differs.

    Ahhh the patriarchy conspiracy. A personal favorite which seems to always consist of women recieving entitlements above men. To which the response is, if men treated women equally, women wouldn’t be getting all those State, Charity and Corporate yum yums. It is therefore mens fault that women recieve more in every realm of society, due to men not treating women equally. Women are blameless for recieving more of everything.

    Is that why every womens group and the media pretty much calls everything this election the war on women? Someone on here said the massive slush fund called VAWA was reauthorized. More patriarchy, apparently. Since women were already equally protected under law, VAWA is way extra. Why’d all the gals lobby so vigorously for VAWA?

    VAWA is the epitome of patriarchal thinking. Women are physically, emotionally and intellectually less than men, they therefore need extra protection for being so weak of mind and body. That is what women wanted. You are less by your own admission. So any patriarchy that exists, is because women demand more patriarchy. Women are 100% to blame. Patriarchy hurts only men and women demand more of it at all State, Corporate and Social levels. Women just adore their State run patriarchy. Women’s law.

  20. @ideologuereview: “Feminism is designed to pass resources from men to women. It does that through child support and alimony.”

    No, feminism is designed to address incongruities that are unfairly sex-based. The perception that this requires “taking from men to give to women” suggests that the men are entitled to having more resources. In other words, if making things equal results in a feeling that something has been unfairly taken from you, you thought you deserved to have more in the first place just on the basis of who and what you are.

    Obviously there are specific cases in which a man has something taken from him to give it to a woman, like in alimony. (But alimony = the dependent party getting resources from the breadwinning party, so in cases of the woman making more, it does indeed go the opposite way.) That is not what is happening when women are given *equal* access or treated as though they are *equal* under the law. Feminism is not about redistribution of wealth or trying to make women entitled to men’s resources when they didn’t earn them. It is about giving equal access. That’s it.

    It’s common for people who are sexist to be unable to see equality as just. For instance, in a discussion that happened at a college, students were polled on how they feel about women changing their names to the man’s surname after marriage. “Would you be opposed to marrying a woman who wanted to keep her name?” One young man answered that yes, he would be opposed to that. When asked why, he replied, “Because if she kept her name, then everyone would know who REALLY was in charge in THAT relationship.”

    In other words, if they’re both exactly equal, it’s perceived as unequal. If a woman doesn’t lose part of herself, submit, blend her identity into the man’s, it’s not “as it’s supposed to be.” Despite being equal, the woman is being seen as in charge–in a way that is unbecoming or appalling. This guy actually saw it as an inequality when the man and the woman both keep their names in the marriage. If equality looks to you like male subjugation just because he is denied his “right” to “be in charge,” you don’t have to look any farther to see where the problem is.

  21. If a man pays child support, put some of that into a fund so it actually goes to the kid, etc.

    How would this work in practice? Either you’re setting up a trust fund they can only get to at age 18 (lots of help when they need diapers today) or you’re… having social services dole the money out cent by cent so that if a mother, say, buys food for herself and the child to share, she only gets 50% out of the child support fund, I guess? That kind of thing?

    Boy, that wouldn’t be expensive and obnoxious at all.

    And like it matters to the guys anyway. $250 a month is out of your pocket regardless of whether she spends it on manicures or formula. Who cares? If the child isn’t well taken care of, that’s a CPS matter; if they are, well, the fact that the mother is spending money on herself doesn’t mean it costs you any more.

  22. “Feminism is designed to pass resources from men to women. It does that through child support and alimony.”

    (A) queer people exist, which make this factually incorrect
    (B) feminism is not in charge of collecting child support or alimony
    (C) Sometimes, people don’t want to pay child support – these people are NOT forced to have children. In the event that something happens and they have children anyway,, then children cannot be ethically penalized

    “In order to obtain a given standard of living or financial security, men will have to earn more money and hence take on jobs they normally would not.”

    (A) For what it’s worth, the poverty line in my state for a family of four is below the average cost of one year of undergraduate university life.
    (B) If I’ve interpreted this incorrectly feel free to explain in-dept, but this statement looks like men will *have* to take jobs they don’t like, but *only* if they have children… why this is not correct should be self-evident.

    “If a man pays child support, put some of that into a fund so it actually goes to the kid, etc.”
    As opposed to all of those women who take child support payments and do… what with them, exactly?

    Maybe it’s just because the laws in my state are different, but idk where some people get their ideas about alimony and child support.

  23. @Unimaginative
    “I grew up in Fort McMurray, home of the dirty, dirty tarsand mines, and worked at one of the mines for 10 years. All of my siblings still work for mines. About half of the haul truck drivers in all of the mines are women. I don’t know the exact percentage, but huge number of the engineers, chemists, technicians, and technologists are women. There are lots of female welders, electricians, heavy equipment technicians, blasters, and trades of every kind. It’s really no big deal.”

    Your name is perfect considering the total lack of imagination going into your comment. Being a working man I can say with complete self assurance I’ve met precisely 1 female electrician. And I’ve met 100s if not a 1000 over the years. Been all over the country on all kindsa jobs and you are full of manure. Welders, heavy equipment techs, blasters and trades of every kind, I’ve met zero women doing those jobs. I’ve been to every state except alaska and hawaii. Is that where they all work?

    I deal with truck drivers all the time, I’ve met zero women truck drivers and I’ve met thousands of them. As far as the ebgineers, chemists and so forth. Big Daddy does demand those quota’s, doesn’t he? I see it in every damned plant I go to. Every now and then they venture out into the dirty factory where the mooks slave away. They get the cushy middle management jobs and the human resource jobs, (a make believe profession to fill a quota). Spread you propaganda on the disney channel.

    Speaking of the disney channel, ever watch it. Usually it’s a bunch of little girls in short, tight, colorful clothing hitting and belittling boys. Followed by an uproarious laugh track while the boys meekly cower before their superiors. Teach em young, that’s the motto. Feminist TV.

  24. I would assume most women who get child support payments put the money in their bank account and can’t really say “which” money they’re spending on any given transaction, anyway. If someone gets child support (but also has other income, because come on, $250 a month, you’d have to) and gets a manicure, saying she’s getting the manicure with the child support money is kind of goofy.

    Obviously she’s spending some money on the kid, almost certainly more than $250 a month (and if she isn’t, that’s a CPS matter), and whether any specific transaction is using her money or the child support money is impossible and unnecessary to separate.

  25. Child support should go directly to the 1-year-old, who can buy his own diapers!

  26. Yeah, I think it’s really disingenuous to suggest that men are the only ones who have to take terrible jobs to support their families. Women could just as well suggest that they “had to” become sex workers just because that’s a job many people think of as low and demeaning (THOUGH I SHOULD HASTEN TO NOTE that plenty of people do sex work because they choose to!). No gender, however, has the monopoly on work sucking. Work often sucks. Representatives of every gender sometimes have few options available to them due to location, education, or ability.

    And considering how often MRAs whine about men being pushed into physically dangerous jobs, go ahead and look at how the military is handled. Men can’t say women should “have to” be in dangerous and thankless situations like infantry grunt work and then also say women can’t do it because they’re not as well suited for it.

    As some other commenters have noted, women absolutely do take physically demanding and dangerous jobs, but unlike men, authority figures (up to and including those in the government) often decree that they are not allowed to occupy positions men can occupy (e.g., no women in combat in the infantry, officially–though they go unofficially into combat on the front lines consistently without getting the sort of pay you’re supposed to get for that). For every type of job that men are socially encouraged to do which is dirty, demeaning, and difficult, there are women who put themselves in the position to do it as well. Not to mention men less often become low-paid “cleaning ladies” and lots of other chump change female-dominated positions. We all have our dirty, dangerous, unpleasant jobs.

  27. This moderation crap is really annoying, Dave. My knees are a tad beat up from a lifetime of manual labor, so kneeling before the altar of womanhood wouldn’t be condusive to my good health. Don’t fret though ladies, being a man, I’ll die long before I collect social security or use up too much of your health insurance.

  28. About the whole alimony thing.

    Childcare is a valuable service. If you were hiring a live-in nanny, you’d be paying her quite a few thousand a year as well as room and board.

    Cooking is also valuable. A live-in chef would be probably even more expensive, and of course they’d want you to cover all the expenses of their ingredients and tools as well.

    Cleaning is also valuable. A live-in maid: not cheap either.

    If a woman provides these services for you, she is not “not working.” She’s working for you. Which means that you owe her. Which means that when you stop sharing assets, her portion of the assets isn’t a theft or a gift or a luxury. It’s money that she earned, and compared to buying those services any other way, dude, you got a bargain.

  29. You’re right, Cliff Pervocracy. My mom and dad are divorced, and my mom often expressed frustration over how rarely it was recognized that her child-rearing, cleaning, and cooking were WORK. My mother also worked sometimes at traditional jobs, but the child-rearing, cleaning, and cooking were always her domain no matter what. In their case, their marriage was pretty happy and cooperative throughout my childhood; they understood that THEY were running a household and raising a family. Spouses who are “only” taking care of the house, cooking the meals, and raising the children are not freeloading. The children the working spouse is “providing for” are also being “provided for” by the main caretaker.

    My grandfather was mostly a house husband for my father and his older sister, by the way. My grandmother was a successful singer and had a number of Broadway tours throughout her younger years. This meant that my grandfather did his job of raising the children and feeding them, and keeping the house. He only worked on Sundays, and he took the kids with him. My grandmother would have had to pay for those services had she had no husband.

  30. @ideologuereview “Feminism is designed to pass resources from men to women. It does that through child support and alimony.”

    Always with the child support and alimony! You know, if you’re so against women seeking child support and alimony, perhaps having equal access to high paying jobs may diminish that a bit.
    Yet you think the privilege of having those opportunities amounts to a burden. Please, burden me! I want your privilege! It’ll help us both!

  31. @ideologuereview also! Feminism is not about taking hard earned money from men to give to women. Feminism is about the right to have equal access to the job so women can make their own hard earned money – in a nutshell, it’s about equality, not free rides.

    Feminists want EQUALITY – which means equal opportunities for men and women, which is why they are proponents for stay-at-home dads and other non-traditional or parochial forms of organizing a household. Which by extension would make child support and alimony claims more equal (custody, child support and alimony would be awarded to both sexes and less disproportionately to women.)

    You can’t speak from both sides of your mouth! Do you want women to succeed and do well financially or don’t you? If we have EQUAL opportunities, then there are fewer disproportionate amounts of women seeking alimony.

  32. @Cliff Pervocracy
    “If a woman provides these services for you, she is not “not working.” She’s working for you. Which means that you owe her. Which means that when you stop sharing assets, her portion of the assets isn’t a theft or a gift or a luxury. It’s money that she earned, and compared to buying those services any other way, dude, you got a bargain.”

    Yes, I’ve seen the break down of the supposed cost of the cleaning/cooking/laundry thingy. Of course it’s total crap. I think the last, “estimate” for the last study put it at around 135K a year for a woman’s domestic work. If you minused the child care it came out to around 80K. Which means every single person does around 80K of work at their home or apartment.

    If it’s such a bargain, why doesn’t everyone have someone cook and clean and do their laundry? Probably because so few of us make 80K a year. If it’s this fantastic bargain, I’ll gladly cook, clean and do the laundry for anyone of you for a mere 75K a year. Any takers?

    Since everyone who is on their own does all these things in their spare time, (it really takes very little time or effort). The value for those tasks is minimal to non-existant.

    Even with a child, whose usually tossed out the door at the age of five into preschool, it’s not hard at all, nor is it time consuming. If it was this massively time consuming job, no one who had a child could ever work at any other job. It wouldn’t be possible to both work and keep a house, let alone a child. Since that’s what lot’s of people do, all those tasks you claim are so difficult, expensive and time consuming are somehow done in everyones spare time.

    How can something done in a persons spare time, which is far less then even a part time job be considered this monsterously hard and invaluable, time consuming job? The answer of course is, it’s not.

  33. I just let through a bunch of comments from NWO; scroll up to see them. (They’re all on this page of comments.)

  34. Don’t you live alone, slaveboy? What the fuck would you know about cleaning up after a family?

  35. Unimaginative

    NWOslave. Adding geography to the vast breadth of things you apparently know shit about. Canada isn’t a part of the US. It’s actually a whole separate country.

    I’m sure it’s theoretically possible that you’ve worked everywhere in the world and not run into a female tradesperson, but it’s more likely that they saw you coming and went out of their way to avoid you.

    You have never worked in Fort McMurray, obviously. If you had, you wouldn’t whine so much about working long hours at hard jobs, and make ridiculous statements about women not being able to do either, because in the dirty, dirty tarsand mines, EVERYBODY does precisely that, including several thousand women. For which they get paid at the same rate as men, because no company is going to waste resources setting up separate pay schedules based on gender.

    Wow. One misogynist asshole has only ever met one female electrician, therefore thousands of female professionals don’t exist. What a fuckwad you are.

  36. NWOSLAVE…yeah sorry but I call Bullshit on YOU! housework and childcare take up quite a bit of time…and since you are single with no children you have no right to even comment on how long it takes to do these things

    BTW I have a friend who is a trucker and he says he has met many many women truckers….of course there are more men but yes women truckers are not even really that rare…also the freaking show Ice Road Truckers has two women on the show. Also I have met a few Cable ladies and female electricians…THEY EXIST! So do female mechanics! BTW I got in n arguement with a troll on the imdb IR Truckers board who was like Women should stay out of mens jobs!!! and this women need to stop acting like men trope is all over imdb…soooooo maybe thats one reason why there aren’t too many women doing those jobs

    also love how you are trying to make everyone feel sorry for you

  37. This moderation crap is really annoying, Dave. My knees are a tad beat up from a lifetime of manual labor, so kneeling before the altar of womanhood wouldn’t be condusive to my good health. Don’t fret though ladies, being a man, I’ll die long before I collect social security or use up too much of your health insurance.

    If being put in moderation is sooo tiring like manual labor why do you still post here and other feminist sites?

  38. heh yeah being on moderation=oppression!!!!eleventy!! and just like doing manuel labor

  39. NWO, you exquisite shithead, Unimaginative is from Canada. You know that communist space north of us?

    If you don’t like moderation, maybe you shouldn’t be such a snarling, evil, wrong assbag. Give you enough slack and you get nasty.

  40. LOL “assbag”


    And I thought my personal inventions “pervalope” and “penis kitten” were inventive. . . .

  41. I like “pervalope.” definition, please?

  42. About what it sounds like. A pervert, except the kind that isn’t at all skillful or subtle at what he does. A pervert who delivers pervish comments so ham-fistedly that you wonder whether you are talking to a parody of a person.

    a.k.a. about 20% of the guys who try to talk to me on OKCupid.

  43. Hey slavey, up here in Canada, we even have women who serve on the frontlines in places like Iraq and Afghanistan as soldiers! And they take the same risks and get paid the same money!

    Geography and politics dude, learn some. Also, if you paid more attention to what women are doing than you do to their tits you might realize that women are in the same jobs as men.

  44. swankivy, thanks. I was picturing perverts bounding across the digital plains like antelope. I was kinda right.

    pillowinhell, if the info doesn’t come from a 1911 Britannica, NWO is impervious to it.

  45. You know, that’s exactly the mental image I had. And you know, the 1911 brittanica would be an excellent place to start at least. I’m sure they have a decent map showing the Canadian border for starters.

  46. Usually, when NWO shows up, I reprint the Book of Learnin’, just so people remember with whom they’re dealing. But today’s my birthday, and my birthday should be all about love. Therefore, for the rest of the day, I will respond only with Jonathan Richman lyrics.

    If I were to walk to the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston
    Well, first I’d go to the room where they keep the Cezanne
    But if I had by my side a girlfriend
    Then I could look through the paintings
    I could look right through them
    Because I’d have found something that I understand
    I understand a girlfriend

    That’s a girl friend
    Said G-I-R-L-F-R-E-N
    That’s a girlfriend, baby
    That’s something that I understand

    I walk through the Fenway, I have my heart in my hands
    I understand a girlfriend

  47. captainbathrobe

    Though not a parent, Slavey imagines he knows all there is to know about parenting–more even than actual parents.

    I will now expound on the finer points of milk machine repair, since, by slavey’s standards, I am eminently qualified to do so.

  48. NWO

    “How can something done in a persons spare time, which is far less then even a part time job be considered this monsterously hard and invaluable, time consuming job? The answer of course is, it’s not.”

    Suppose all you have to do is throw away some tissues and rinse out your fleshlight.

  49. gotta love how in NWO land(well misoginist land really) what women do is completely worthless…yep jobs that are dominated by women which usually include childcare or working with people are completely disgarded as worthless while male oriented jobs are all awesome and women don’t belong there! ITs why sometimes I feel really bad on going on the defensive about hey I know women engineers, doctors, truckers..which I DO and as far as I know they are all competant but most of my female friends and relatives are nurses or teachers or social workers, and I myself do tutoring and work at the college I graduaated from and well I DO do pretty much all the housework…BTW NWO Slave it takes much longer then 10 min to do laundry and Vacuming can take awhile as well as well as cleaning counters ect

  50. Oh goodness. The magical universe inside NWO’s head gets more terrible every day. Today, we learn that children are “tossed out the door at the age of five,” and then they never come back home. (Or, at least, if they do come back, they apparently no longer require any form of parenting. Also, the five years before any given child turns five do not count as requiring parenting work, either, because…well…um…look! Behind you! A three-headed monkey!)

  51. Polliwog-eyp! There was a post awhile back saying women would be replaced by advanced AI….apparently MRAs think parenting(well the parts women mostly do anyway) that they can be replaced by robots! I’ve even heard other MRAs say men are better at everything! Including what women do!!! yeah and they have the audacity to wonder why women want nothing to do with them

  52. errr is so easy that they will rplaced

  53. NWO: Of course most crimes are committed by men. Those with the least privilege, or options, have the least choices for survival

    Are you arguing then that men have always been oppressed by women? Because men have always been the majority of criminals.

    By your, “logic”, that means the natural state of things is for women to be in charge.

    So why are you so opposed to the natural order of things?

  54. Fembot: Soldiers know about stoploss when they sign the contract. And they are placed on reserve for eight years, I believe, not indefinitely.

    The first, maybe they knew about it when they enlisted, maybe not. It’s not something which gets a lot of attention, and; prior to 2003/4 many people had not heard about it.

    Even now, when it’s more well known, it’s quite possible for someone to enlist and not know about it. 18 year olds are not known for their worldly knowledge.

  55. Fembot/pillowinhell: re credit.

    So long as you aren’t massively in debt, they’ll take you. A poor credit score/a little more debt than normal can be a bar to a clearance; as it creates potential levers for Foreign Intelligence Services to gain some control over the servicemember.

    ozy: Stop-loss was not a Bush II policy. It’s a legal mechanism, and it has limits (I was stop-lossed several times. It didn’t matter because I wasn’t trying to get out; but had I been, then I’d have been forced to stay). It’s been around since I don’t know when; to cover shortages in critical specialties.

    It’s not been a big deal since the end of the draft (though I think it was used some in the early stages of Vietnam, when they hadn’t ramped up the draft, and needed to retain some people).

    Bush I issued a blanket stop-loss to the Nat. Guard in the Gulf War.

    pillowinhell: Still, stop loss is a vile way to get around recruitment issues.

    It’s not just recruitment issues. My MOS was stoplossed a couple of times; sometimes it was more specfic, so that it wasn’t 97E, but specifically 97EAB (I was a (97ERU). Because training a 97EAB takes 28 months, for a new recruit, and 20 months for a requal of a generic 97E. One also has to take into account that there is a, roughly, 40 percent failure rate in the training of 97E soldiers.

    So it’s not just a recruiting problem (though it’s a lot harder to recruit a qualified candidate for anything in Military Intelligence, so that for every 10 people who express an interest 7 are usually denied the chance).

  56. “Perhaps you could rattle off a few of these male privileges.”
    Certainly, if it will help.

    “Are there quota’s for employment for men dictated by the State?”
    None that I could find.

    “How about men only scholarships?”
    Yes, some quick googling turned up the following:
    Phi Kappa Si Men of Excellence Scholarship, The Franklin Scholarship, Lax Scholarship Fund for Gay Men, Alpha Tau Omega Distinct Advantage Scholarship, Sigma Phi Epsilon Balanced Man Scholarship, The Mabel and Lawrence S. Cooke National Eagle Scout Association Scholarship, Hall/McElwain Merit Scholarships, Chuck Hall Star of Tomorrow Scholarship,

    Men friendly spaces in the workplace?
    Yes, my workplace has many men friendly spaces, in fact I have not worked anywhere that did not have a men friendly space.

    Do men have any reproductive rights?
    Yes, men have the right to engage in or not engage in reproductive acts with consenting adult partners.

    Maybe business start up funding for men only?
    While I could find many sources of business start up funding for men, I did not find any for men only.

    An all mens lawyers association?
    Again I found many lawyers associations for men, but none for only men. I did however find many law firms where all of the partners were men.

    How about white privilege?

    White quota’s?
    I have not found any white quotas

    White business opportunities?
    The country is teeming with business opportunities for white people. My neighborhood can’t be so far out of the norm that all of the white business owners I see around me are an aberration.

    White scholarships?
    There are far too many scholarships that white people can receive to hope to list them. Here are a few:
    HOPE Scholarship, Fulbright Scholarship, Coca-Cola Scholars Program, SMART Scholarship, Bright Futures Scholarship Program, Healthy Lifestyles Scholarship, Big Dig Scholarships

  57. Unimaginative

    Teehee! I read that last one as “Big Dick Scholarships” and just about died laughing. Wouldn’t that be something? A scholarship for white males only, called a Big Dick Scholarship.

  58. @pecunium

    Thank you for clarifying. I am not an expert, I’m just married to one : D

  59. WWB:“Citations” are vulnerable to spin; “facts”, simply speaking, are not.

    You, I can see, don’t work in a field with a whole lot of facts.

    Because facts, absent context, are pretty much useless.

    So facts, simply speaking, are very vulnerable to spin.

    Bostonian. Come on now. Duke. Strass-Kahn. Many, many, many that I know personally, though their names will mean nothing to you.

    Really? He’s in France, enjoying his life. They are where? They graduated and no one remembers their names.

    The accuser in the SK case also seems to be a false accusing scumbag.

    Care to present the facts which prove this? Not that the spin made it impossible to support the charge to a level sufficient to convince a jury, the actual proof of the claim of fact you are making.

  60. Antz: You little vulnerable and dependent dearies would wilt in an instant under the kind of “privilege” that men must endure.

    So… you are a chemist, of some sort. Tough life that.

    I’ve been a machinist, a ditch digger: in Phoenix, in the summer, worked pizza, done security, been homeless and spent 16 years in the Army; to include a combat tour.

    I’ve lived the shit you say I can’t take for an instant.

    You sit in a lab and pretend you are going to build an artificial womb so men and women can be separated completely.

    Which of is it who is the wilting flower?

  61. Woo, Jonathon Richman/Modern Lovers! Also happy birthday Shaenon, though I suspect I’m late.

    …I have nothing more to add except that Fatman and Cliff are fantastic here (and most places!), and that I’ve not disappeared or anything.

  62. I like how NWO’s evidence of female privilege is all the jobs women aren’t hired for.

    Apparently the only thing worse than men being denied jobs is… men not being denied jobs?

    Poor men just can’t win.

  63. As long as I’ve known oil workers, I’ve known that females do those jobs, too. My ex husband’s step mom worked on the rigs, not in peripheral jobs in oil.
    Currently I’m researching North Dakota because some family members of mine
    might go up there. On every video I see, there are women posting, “are there opportunities for women?” and in many of the videos they talk about the women working up there.

    There is a housing problem up there so they build camps to house workers, and one separate one was built for women. They’re there. I think it’s sad that they have to ask on the videos if they will be hired, but the guys making the videos answer sure! You have to pass the physical test, but the answer is yes.

    The latest Ultimate Fighter episode is one I wanted to make a video of, but UFC is very copyright protective. Rhonda Roussey showed up in this episode to train the other male fighters on the show. It’s a shame UFC wants to segregate the sport, but oh well. I know that many will not appreciate that violent sport at all, and I understand that. It took me awhile to be able to watch it. I look into UFC for reasons I won’t get into here. But evaluating UFC outside of wishing people never hurt each other, and in terms of gender can be quite interesting. The Rhonda Roussey episode was fascinating, it’s this weeks, if you look for it.

  64. Well, David, Antz took the bait. Happy now? And who was it who said, “If you’re going to make shit up, make up shit that corroborates your other bullshit assertions”? Whoever it was, I blame you for this jacked-up band camp story.

    The 17 year old was called Melissa. Melissa is one of the most obese women I have ever seen…. When the 4 year statute of limitations on rape passed, I silently felt very relieved.

    The grad school buddy who I started a move-in relationship with to protect me from a false rape claim is a stunningly beautiful woman with a perfect body, and I mean PERFECT. Maybe in part because she was surprised by the odd act of kindness, she fell insanely in love with me. I tried everything that I could think of to get her to forget me….

    The police never even listened to the audio tape, told me “coercion is not rape”, and never investigated her story either. All of this is contrary to Florida law.

    Cool story, brah. Srsly.

    Sometimes I just wish women would stay away from me entirely

    Yeah, bummer when the strippers in the club you’re frequenting keep offering you lap dances and won’t just let you drink your watered-down jack and coke in peace.

    Or when you troll a feminist site and women are just there all over the place. Worse, they keep responding to your asinine posts.

  65. Well, clearly women should leave men alone unless they have super model airbrushed flawless appearances and your penis is feeling a need to give her an update on its change in status.

    Otherwise, women should just fuck right off because they aren’t worth the risk of sperm jacking or false rape accusation, amiright?

  66. Feminism is designed to pass resources from men to women. It does that through child support and alimony.

    Wow, that’s a pretty dumbass way to get resources. Median child support is, what, a few hundred dollars a month, and then you have to take care of the kids by yourself? I have to say that a high-powered traditionally male job is a MUCH better meal ticket.

  67. @NWO: “Perhaps you could rattle off a few of these male privileges. Are there quota’s for employment for men dictated by the State?”

    This just demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of what privilege is. Privilege isn’t “this quota is reserved for you.” It’s “this institutional and social preference is geared toward supporting you.” And if you have it, you’ve probably had it your entire life. It’s invisible to you when you already have it, and you think that’s just “normal” and “how the world is supposed to be” when people like you are the ones in power. Quotas (no need for the apostrophe to make it plural, btw) of the Affirmative Action type are also of course not perfect (partly because they cause whining from people who believe THEIR jobs and whatnot are being taken and given to people who do not deserve them). But they serve two purposes: 1. countering the disadvantages that an underprivileged group has experienced throughout life, and 2. making members of the majority see and get used to a member of a minority in that role, making it easier for everyone to have an equal shot in the future.

    If you think that “privilege” is about you getting special offers, yes, our definition of privilege does differ. Because in the case of male privilege, it is not something that has to be spelled out and offered to you and packaged with a “for men” sign. Because it already was “for” you, as everything is as a default “for” you unless it is earmarked for someone else, and you were raised in a society that expected you to receive it – a society that was organized to privilege you – a society that made it normal for you to think it was owed to you. What a gross misunderstanding you have of what we’re even talking about here.

    Your privilege is still invisible to you. You haven’t even gotten to the point where you can listen to other people who are having an experience that is not yours and understand that they are not accusing you of oppressing them deliberately. I’m white and I like to think I haven’t taken any deliberate steps toward keeping black people poorer in my country or blocking their success in education. I do, however, recognize that most of my black friends came from families with a lower socioeconomic status and therefore have to try harder, work more, and overcome expectations against them just to get where I started from, not even to mention equaling me. It’s not “because they’re black”; it’s “because black people are in this situation, raised in it, trained to expect it, and get treated like they’re violating understood boundaries if they fight it or overcome it.” I see it! Because people who had that experience showed me and told me about it, and I acknowledged that across the board they had to try harder to get things I was simply given. You’d rather just insist that there is no such thing as male privilege – by pointing out that sometimes women do get things! The first step to equality is understanding another person’s experience and agreeing to stop contributing to the systems that oppress them. Feminists aren’t against men. But we will be against anyone who continues to behave as though any concessions to women are stolen from men–the rightful owner.

  68. As usual, “people NWO has personally met” = “everyone”. HIS ANECDATA IS JUST BETTER, OKAY.

    Personally, I suspect that he has met many, many women who were electricians, engineers, truck drivers, etc., but because none of them were attractive eighteen- to twenty-four-year-olds, he failed to notice. Good old MRA goggles.

  69. @Kyn: Personally, I suspect that he has met many, many women who were electricians, engineers, truck drivers, etc., but because none of them were attractive eighteen- to twenty-four-year-olds, he failed to notice.

    Total agreement here!

  70. @Kyn: “Personally, I suspect that he has met many, many women who were electricians, engineers, truck drivers, etc.”

    That’s the problem: if you meet people outside the context of their jobs – which, to be fair, is how we meet MOST people – we don’t know what they do for a living unless they tell us. Just because you don’t know a woman is working in a male-dominated field doesn’t mean you haven’t met a woman who does that. It’s the same as how people assume the guy who is out of the closet at work represents how “gay people act,” when the guys who are not out of the closet are being assumed heterosexual. Women who are not actually driving trucks etc. are being assumed to NOT be able/willing to do these things. Same as people are straight until proven gay in a lot of people’s minds.

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