Heartiste: Funny like a clown

Heartiste: A sad clown

Always hilarious: painfully unfunny dudes explaining how women just aren’t funny. Over on Chateau Heartiste, the Heartiste formerly known as Roissy drops some (pseudo) SCIENCE on us all:

[C] hicks dig male status, dominance and personality as much as, or more than, they dig male looks. Men, on the other hand, dig beauty first and foremost, and a woman’s comedic timing, however it might make a man laugh, won’t stir his schnitzel if she’s a dog.

Since women don’t see a benefit from humor in the competition to attract men, their sex, on average when compared to men, has not evolved a strong cortical humor module. Women are better equipped to appreciate humor than they are to produce humor.

Apparently, if you use the same words that scientists use – like “cortical” and “module” – that makes it true!

But there is more to this Old Misogynist’s Tale. As Heartiste explains, it’s cruel humor that women appreciate most of all — in their lady regions. In other words, chicks like dicks:

[W]omen become sexually aroused by men who expertly wield the soulkilling shiv of sadism. …

Cruelty that is delivered with supreme confidence, bemused detachment, and eviscerating precision is catnip to women’s kitties.

Get it? Kitties = pussies = VAGINAS.

Ba-dump-tssh! Heartiste is on a roll.

So let’s see some examples of the sort of masterfully eviscerating humor that makes the ladies weak in their knees and gets their “kitties” excited. (Note: By kitties I am, like Heartiste, referring to vaginas. Exciting a woman’s actual kitties is better done with shiny objects and mouse-shaped toys.)

Anyway, here are some of Heartiste’s examples of cruel humor at its most exquisite, which he has helpfully rendered in dialogue form:

Me: Sweetcheeks, look. That bum just winked at you. He wants to take you back to his cardboard box. [waving at bum] Hi, bum!

Her: [struggling to conceal a grin] Shh, stop that. Stop waving. You’re horrible.

Truly, bum-mockery at its finest.

But he’s only getting started:

Me: You want to take a bus? Forget it. [nodding in direction of obese woman] She ate it.

Her: [looking heavenward] Oh my god, I can’t believe you just said that.

Aw yeah. Suggesting that a fat person has just eaten something comically large: comedy gold!

After some further jests on the topics of male boobs (hmm), the size of black men’s cocks, and raping the disabled (yes, really), our hero is in like Flynn, well on his way to all-caps “TRIUMPHAL SEX.”

The way it will usually go down is like this: You revel in your cruelty. She reacts with manufactured disapproval, often stifling laughter. Her vagina moistens. A wave of hidden shame releases a continuous flow of blood to her vaginal walls, maintaining her in a semi-aroused state all day long. Later that night, the floodgates open and you slip in like a lubed eel.

Yipes. That is about as erotic as Gilbert Gottfried reading from 50 Shades of Grey.

I’m pretty sure the only reason Heartiste can maintain his belief that women can’t do cruel humor themselves is that he’s never heard what they say about him once he leaves the room.

About David Futrelle

I run the blog We Hunted the Mammoth, which tracks (and mocks) online misogyny. My writing has appeared in a wide variety of places, including Salon, Time.com, the Washington Post, the New York Times Book Review and Money magazine. I like cats.

Posted on July 12, 2012, in alpha males, bad boys, douchebaggery, heartiste, I'm totally being sarcastic, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, PUA, rape jokes, that's not funny!. Bookmark the permalink. 344 Comments.

  1. Yep, no men I know would enjoy Slavey’s company – working class or otherwise. My husband is a working class guy from Castlemilk and he doesn’t have much interest in gender politics lke I do. However he does have a commitment to social justice, is a solid Labour Party voter and believes in a fair and equal society. I remember showing him the Book of Learnin’ a while ago – he absolutely pissed himself laughing.

  2. Ooh, ooh! NWO! Call me a filthy jew next! (Or “jewess,” if you prefer.) I’ve got a great comeback I want to try out!

  3. Cassandra and Cliff: I am so glad I’m not the only one who’s tried to picture this. I mean, I imagine the Mellertoad as a kind of shut in so I don’t really worry about him trying to interact with other people.

    But NWO… There’s just no way. No fucking way.

    I don’t know how he manages family dinners during the holidays, let alone casual conversations with other men.

    Different regular guy 1: So I just walked up to her, right, and I’m like “Excuse me, I know you don’t know me but I just had to tell you that I think you look really nice tonight and I-”

    NWO: Oh I bet she looked nice, that bitch! Like a dog in heat! She’s arousing you on purpose! That’s sexual assault, man!

    Nope. Can’t picture it.

  4. “I let everyone here call me personally every name in the book.”
    You don’t LET us. You just can’t STOP us, so you lash out instead. (Even when the “insult” isn’t even directed at you.) You sure as hell don’t turn the other cheek.

    “Is it too much to ask to respect everyones religious beliefs?”
    …Apparently, yes?

  5. Also like hell am I clicking that link, NWO, but if “looking 20” is consent to sex, than…

    …I got nothing. Not even a snappy joke. That’s just so goddamn horrible. That’s one of the reasons even other misogynists don’t want to deal with you.

  6. Y’know, some people look 20 because they ARE 20 and that still doesn’t mean they want sex with literally anyone who can see them.

    Mind-blowing, huh?

  7. I seem to recall NWO getting nasty to someone who used the term ‘gods’ or ‘god and goddess.’ So it’s fine when it’s someone else’s religion, but no one has the right to say anything uncomplimentary about yours? Shocking.

  8. I would love to see Thanksgiving with NWO’s family. I’m sure there’s lots of eye-rolling and furtive whispers in the kitchen about his behavior.

  9. Have I ever done it, Dave? I let everyone here call me personally every name in the book. Is it too much to ask to respect everyones religious beliefs?

    Why don’t you start by respecting Christianity. I also come from a long line of Christians, NWO. The religion is a part of my family and thus my identity. And I don’t like having it maligned and misrepresented by the likes of you.

    Unless there’s some translation of the Good Book that says “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven… and I’d like to wave my erection in their faces.”

  10. And, NWO, while I’m completely unsurprised that you can produce an undoubtedly bookmarked and often clicked link to site full of underage girls, I stand by what I said.

    I have known, worked with, loved, and lived a number of “working class” men and they are not universally obsessed with 12 year olds. Nor do they find capri-pants and the exposure of the shins to cause them uncontrollable sexual arousal. And they would, almost to a man, find you as sad and repulsive as I do.

  11. I’m morbidly curious as to what it makes me to NWO, due to being engaged to a Jewish guy. Particularly, given that he seems to be slinging “filthy Jew” with all the accuracy of a coked out chimp flinging feces.

  12. Oh Owly, is this how you always act, god damn you are a strange one. I’m still curious to see how your mind works, write me an essay about a day in the life of nwoslave.

  13. Unimaginative

    Jesus Tapdancing Christ!!!

    I made up my own religion, and I’m the only one in it. (We have a commandment against evangelizing.) There really aren’t any slurs against it, so NWO can go to town.

    Especially if he takes that literally, gets off the internet, and goes to an actual town, and interacts with some live humans in person, just to see what that’s like. As long as they’re neither women nor children, because public safety.

  14. I’m a Discordian, I worship Eris, the greek goddess of chaos, except I’m also an atheist, so she doesn’t exist. I also enjoy occasionally to partake joyously of a hot dog on a friday. So Owly, does this make me one of your “filthy jews”?

  15. By the way, how do I embed youtube videos in the comments, I still fail at basic wordpress based communication.

  16. Unimaginative

    I just copy and past the address of the youtube page and it embeds itself.

  17. Hmm, I tried that earlier, maybe I’ll just try the embed link and see if that works, I’ll just try to find a semi-relevant video to use.

  18. Ok, let’s see if this works.

  19. Crisse d’osti de tabarnak.

  20. HUZZAH, Shortlinking it is then.

  21. aworldanonymous: Hail Eris! And her blessed Son on earth, Norton I, Emperor of America and Protector of Mexico!

  22. @KathleenB

    I am a noob at discordianism and not completely familiar with the lore.

  23. If only because I have trouble reading scanned books off of a screen and haven’t managed to find a hard copy of the principia yet.

  24. Hail Eris and Her chosen Saint Stephen Colbert!

  25. CassandraSays

    @ Unimaginative

    It’s funny, that song made me think about how much religion is tied up with culture. I’m a lifelong atheist, but my family are Episcopalian, Presbyterian, and Catholic, so that song makes me think of family gatherings, my granny humming in the kitchen as she cooked, and all kinds of other warm fuzzy memories. It’s one of the reasons that even though I am an atheist I hate aggressively negative commentary on religious rituals, because for a lot of people those rituals are tied up with a bunch of positive stuff that doesn’t actually have much to do with religion at all. There are a lot of cultures where you just can’t cleanly separate the two aspects.

  26. Unimaginative

    @ CassandraSays

    I’m with you. I went through a militant atheist phase, but it got very tiring, and then I felt the presence of gods. So I’m a theist, but I don’t believe that god is a person, and I don’t believe in the personification of good and evil. And I certainly don’t believe that if you just figure out the right secret code of behaviour, you get saved. (Jew! No, Christian! Okay, Christian, but only this denomination! No, no, Hindu! etc.)

    My non-religious uncle died a few years ago, and we had a get-together to bury his remains and remember him, but it was specifically non-religious and mostly involved telling stories about his life and crying.

    A month later, the young son of one of my co-workers was killed in a car accident, and we all went to his Catholic funeral to support her.

    Even though a lot of the sermon sounded like a commercial for joining up with the church, I found the whole thing very comforting, and it gave me some closure over my uncle’s death.

    In short, I agree. There’s a social and cultural aspect of religion that you can’t logic away, even if the religion itself has the same spiritual impact on you as a fairy tale.

  27. aworldanonymous: Joshua Norton was a trader in San Francisco in the late 1840s. He schemed to corner the rice market in the city, managed to buy everything up… And a steamer full of rice pulled into the bay. He was ruined. After losing a lawsuit related to the rice, he disappeared. As as far as anyone can tell, he let his mind off the hook for while. He returned declaring himself Emperor of America and Protector of Mexico, and issued decrees ordered that bridge be built , and even printed his own money. That shopkeepers gladly accepted. He is considered a saint or possibly an avatar of Eris herself among some Erisians.


  28. I’m an agnostic, the way I see it there’s no real way to prove that any gods exist or that any gods don’t, and I’d rather focus on my life the way I want to pursue it rather than debate whether god exists or not, and what god it is specifically.

  29. CassandraSays

    I found the ritual aspect of my mother’s funeral very comforting in its familiarity, even though I’m not a theist at all. I sometimes miss singing Christmas carols too, and feel like it’s a shame that only the silliest ones rather than the beautiful ones (which are mostly more overtly religious) are part of my life now since it’s the silly jingles that you hear in stores, on the radio, etc.

    My favorite Christmas carol, which I enjoyed singing as part of a choir even in my militantly atheist teenage years.

  30. Unimaginative

    That’s lovely.

    I was trying to find a song I heard years ago about a bunch of former Christians turned Buddhist who missed gospel music. I couldn’t find it, but this is good too.

  31. Hey, nwoslave? I consider myself a Christian. In fact, I’m seriously starting to believe that God has called me to be a feminist and help combat the kyriarchy.

    Most of what you post here is ridiculously disrespectful of my spiritual beliefs, let alone the spiritual beliefs of people here who don’t identify as Christians. They’re not persecuting you for your faith, they’re just laughing at your blatant hypocrisy.

    Jesus freaking Christ on a pogo stick.

  32. I’m surprised he hasn’t come up with an “oh so well thought out” retort to this onslaught of mockery yet. What’s the matter owly, can’t formulate a simple argument?

  33. Psh, you Discordians. Bunch of hippie pansies.

    “Bob” beats the crap out of Eris mofos. Time to join the winning team!

    PRAISE “BOB”!!!!!

  34. @Molly moon- As a fellow part-Jew, I’d like to welcome with you with open arms to filthy Jew-dom. The weather’s fine here; we have eggnog and latkes and Manishevitz!

    On a more serious note, I am, as I said, a part-Jew, with a Jewish dad and a mom who was raised Presbyterian. I’m also a future rabbi (starting rabbinical school at the beginning of September. Whee!) I have the unique blessing of being surrounded in my blood and chosen family by atheists, secular Jews, religious Christians, a minister’s daughter, someone who half-believes in the Fey, and a Jew by culture and family who is currently Wiccan (Cliff I wish you could meet her; I think you’d get along). And OWLY, your hateful ignorant bullshit offends every last one of my relatives and myself. The world is full of so much grace and beauty, and it has been my experience that worship with humility and a keen sense of justice can add immeasurably to one’s brief time on this planet. God wants us to live together with humor, love, and understanding. It is entirely possible to do so, no matter what religion (or lack therof) you are. And while you think that you are attacking the evil dirty Jews, I think you are doing the most damage to your fellow Christians, who actually follow Christ’s example in devotion and humility.

    And so, since I am not yet clergy and my religion does not necessarily believe in turning the other cheek, FUCK YOU.

  35. I’m actually a Discordian Pastafarian SubGenius, because I can be.

  36. And it’s no more or less contradictory than many other religious texts out there.

  37. … on a lighter note, I’m glad to see that I am not the only non-Christian on here with a serious familial/ cultural based love of Christmas carols. Oh Mendelssohn, you are brilliant.

  38. Fucking Roissy…. thanks for making posts about him David. This guy is big with internet toolbags, but I don’t feel like wading in the septic tank he calls a blog.

    soulkilling shiv of sadism.

    Wow, Fartiste sucks at sadism too. Sadism is about drawing out suffering, not killing. I can only conclude that he’s a necrophile.

    Something like “The biting whip of sadism” or “The nipple-twisting needle-nose pliers of sadism” would have worked better. This isn’t rocket science.

    Me: Sweetcheeks, look. That bum just winked at you. He wants to take you back to his cardboard box. [waving at bum] Hi, bum!

    Making fun of the homeless huh — at least he’s not actually “shivving” them like Patrick Bateman, who is obviously this creep’s role model.

  39. Wow, I went out with a few friends for drinks, and look at what I missed! Strangely enough, before this I never considered tap dancing a slur; I thought it was a talent.

    That was a pretty serious meltdown for Owly.

  40. Roissy is a hack. I rarely read him. RooshV is more interesting, though equally douchey.

  41. And Roissy writes like a romance novelist. I can almost see the frills coming off the page. Roosh is more straight forward.

  42. Not a carol, but England’s unofficial national anthem is another religious-based piece that hits on a gut level if you grew up with it (the Blake lyrics help, but it’s the music too). With just one person singing it sounds rather boring, but when it’s a big crowd it’s gorgeous.

  43. That was a pretty serious meltdown for Owly.

    Yeah, he saw an opportunity to talk shit about Jews and just lost it. It was his lucky day, I guess. What an asshole.

    Funny how quick he is come up with this stuff when the chance arrives. It’s almost like it’s in the back of his mind, all the time.

  44. ursula fitzmartin

    When is somebody going to present the roissy-ite clan with the plethysmograph evidence from a study a few years ago that indicated that women are actually aroused by a wider variety of sexual stimuli than men are (and they get aroused just as quickly)?

    Would the cognitive dissonance cause his head to implode, or would the walls of delusion just grow thicker in response?

  45. I’m not a Christian in any way, but I do like Christmas. I’ve been tempted to start calling it Hogswatch.

  46. @NWO

    What about me? What about me? (raises hand)

    I want to be called a filthy Jewess too! (even though I’m an atheist)

  47. @Cassandra- That was lovely. Thank you.

  48. Apparently I’m on a music/nostalgia roll! Here’s another one that’s an example of how religion and culture are woven together in ways that can be hard to separate in terms of people’s feelings.

    For non-Brits, it makes more sense if you know the story behind it. First time I heard it I sat through the first and second verses going “patriotism and military recruiting, blech”, and then it got to the third verse and I was all “…oh”.

    “The origin of the lyric is a poem by diplomat Cecil Spring-Rice which he wrote in 1908 whilst posted to the British Embassy in Stockholm. Then called Urbs Dei or The Two Fatherlands, the poem described how a Christian owes his loyalties to both his homeland and the heavenly kingdom. The lyrics were in part based upon the motto of the Spring family, from whom Spring-Rice was descended.[1] The first verse, as originally composed, had an overtly patriotic stance, which typified its pre-first world war era.

    In 1912, Spring-Rice was appointed as Ambassador to the United States of America where he influenced the administration of Woodrow Wilson to abandon neutrality and join Britain in the war against Germany. After the Americans entered the war, he was recalled to Britain. Shortly before his departure from the US in January 1918, he re-wrote and renamed Urbs Dei, significantly altering the first verse to concentrate on the huge losses suffered by British soldiers during the intervening years.

    The first verse, and the rarely sung second verse, refer to the United Kingdom, and particularly to the sacrifice of those who died during the First World War. The last verse, starting “And there’s another country”, is a reference to heaven. The final line is based on Proverbs 3:17, which reads in the King James Bible, “Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace.”

    (This is the only hymn that makes my Dad cry. It seems to do that to a lot of stoic older Brits, because of the association with all the people who died in the two World Wars.)

  49. I like Christmas carols, presents, tree, the whole shebang too. We kind of joke about how we always have awesome Christmases even though it’s a whole house full of atheists. (A Christian friend of ours got a lecture from her mother about how she had to be careful because she was going to a godless house, which kind of tickled me, like we were the Den of Corrupters or something).

  50. Hey, one of the most Christmas-loving people I know is a Japanese Buddhist who has no ties to Christianity at all in terms of family or religious affiliation. She still drags me to see Christmas trees and makes me take her picture standing in front of them, and knows all the words to every popular Christmas carol. Admittedly her much more devoutly Buddhist mother finds this rather baffling.

  51. I celibrate Christmas as a purely nonreligious holiday (I know, that’s kind of contradictory). But I love having a tree, and decorating it, hanging the stockings, preparing a feast, and wrapping presents. We just leave out the religious aspects. It works for us.

  52. Christmas is just fun. I think it’s as much a secular holiday as a religious one, and I think it’s important for people who live in wintery places have a big ol’ party in the middle of winter. Most of the traditions that are the most fun are pre-christian anyway.

    In my circle of friends, we have several atheists and pagans, some nominal christians, a jew, a buddhist, two muslims, and a sikh. (And me, I haven’t settled on a name for my religion. I don’t know if I want to, because then I’ll feel obliged to come up with a doctrine or something. So far, I’m calling it a new-agey, pagany, quantumish, pantheistic kind of thing.) We all celebrate christmas.

  53. I always find it humorous when someone says that X “always works” and then they ignore all the situations where it absolutely does NOT work, where it only partially works before failing miserably and the situations where they don’t even try because they go all “sour grapes” about it.

    So apparently all women are the same, except for all the women who aren’t.

    Wow, stop the presses.

  54. Is it too much to ask to respect everyones religious beliefs?

    Of course it is! I can avoid mentioning them when people don’t bring them up, but the idea that a guy got up again after being dead and didn’t start eating brains is downright ridiculous. That’s right: ridiculous, as in, deserving of ridicule.

    You might as well try telling me that homeopathy is an effective form of medicine.

    (I’ll believe any and all of these once I find evidence, natch.)

  55. How this would work out IRL…

    Him: Sweetcheeks, look. That bum just winked at you. He wants to take you back to his cardboard box. [waving at homeless man] Hi, bum!

    Homeless guy: What the FUCK did you say to me you skinny little yuppie PUNK?

    Her: Shh, stop that. You’ll get us mugged.

    Him: Ha, ha, it’s ok honey-hi bum…

    Homeless guy: I’m gonna KICK YOUR ASS into the next CENTURY you silver-spoon ASSWIPE, hey fellas – this DOUCHE just called us BUMS!

    Homeless guy 2: The FUCK he just say?

    Her: (Walking in other direction) I don’t know him, I don’t know him!

    Him: Hey babe, where you going…

    Homeless guys: Where YOU going PUNK?

    Him: Hi..ah, sir…sweetcheeks, where’d you go to? Help….

  56. @ religious discussion-

    I respect your right TO your beliefs (as far as they do not affect other, non-consenting individuals). I do not have to RESPECT your beliefs.

    There’s a very crucial difference there.

  57. Of course it is! I can avoid mentioning them when people don’t bring them up, but the idea that a guy got up again after being dead and didn’t start eating brains is downright ridiculous. That’s right: ridiculous, as in, deserving of ridicule.

    Come on. It’s cool to say “I don’t believe in the resurrection of Jesus.” Neither do I. (Neither, in fact, do a large number of Christians.)

    It’s really not cool to get all “LOLOLOL ZOMBIE GOD MAN HAW HAW” about it. That just puts you in “even if you’re right, you’re still a jerk” territory.

    You know how we bury people in nice clothing and fancy coffins under pretty flowers even though they can’t tell what’s going on and wouldn’t care if you just threw them in a landfill? If you look at things from a purely cynical standpoint, it’s ridiculous. But it would be a total jerk thing to point that out in so many words at a funeral. You respect the intent of people’s irrational decisions, even if you don’t respect the content, and you realize the impact your mockery would have is out of proportion to the information it would provide.

    That’s why I really prefer to say “I don’t believe in Jesus” rather than “Jesus wasn’t real,” and much prefer either of those to “HA HA ZOMBIE JEW.”

  58. im a big fan of ‘jesus motherfucking christ’ but i dont use it on this blog because i know there are believers and shit, so…

    Speaking as one of the people you are probably referring to, a) thank you for being considerate, and b) use it whenever the hell you want. I know the difference between an interjection and a deliberate insult.

  59. I love singing religious music (from multiple religions) and as a choir person back in school, we did all manner of songs from Psalms to holiday music. It never bothered me, even though I am not a religious person and identify as atheist (and, for some weird reason, I always have since childhood even though I grew up going to Sunday school and stuff). For me, mythology is fascinating, and I like to see what it tells us about humanity rather than try and argue whether or not it actually exists FOR REALZ. For me, what is important is what it MEANS and how it affects people’s lives, not necessarily the beliefs themselves. That is generally why I tend to be very respectful of other people who practice their beliefs as long as said beliefs do not overstep the bodily integrity or legal rights of others.

    Maybe I’m a weirdo atheist for that, but I like to think that there is no reason I can’t enjoy ritual and mythos unless I am a True Believer (TM).

  60. That’s why I really prefer to say “I don’t believe in Jesus” rather than “Jesus wasn’t real,” and much prefer either of those to “HA HA ZOMBIE JEW.”

    I appreciate this so much. That’s why I don’t hang out at other feminist blogs, ever: Because, even if religion isn’t a topic of the blog at all, every one of them has someone who’s going to be like “Those stupid Christians think that when they die they’ll go swim in a river of yogurt with the invisible sky-daddy!”

    And then, when you point out “Um, it would be nice if you didn’t mock my beliefs,” they’ll actually double down and say “Well, that’s what you think, isn’t it?” (Yes, this is a real conversation I’ve had. At Slacktivist. A goddamn Christian blog.)

    So yeah, I’m just going to get all mushy and say that I’ve never actually seen religious tolerance play out anywhere as well as it does here.

  61. Argenti Aertheri

    NWO — “Well, what can one expect from the decendants of the very people who decided to crucify him for their amusement?” … Romans? For the sake of history, try getting that one right.

    katz — “river of yogurt”?! o.O?

  62. CassandraSays

    So Slavey is sticking with the “Jesus wasn’t Jewish because something, I don’t know, thinking about this makes my little anti-semitic head hurt” option, huh?

  63. A river of yogurt sounds SO delicious right now.

  64. I think I’d actually prefer soaking in eternal chocolate rain….without the side of chaos.

  65. NWO — “Well, what can one expect from the decendants of the very people who decided to crucify him for their amusement?” … Romans? For the sake of history, try getting that one right.

    Yeah, as far as I know I’m the only person here who fits that description.

    A river of yogurt sounds SO delicious right now.

    Um, ew?

  66. Christians who complain about atheists refusing to play along or mocking them should seriously get the fuck over it. The powerful majority that often uses its religion as an excuse to foist its beliefs on others crying crocodile tears about those meany meany unpopular minority groups when it comes to religious opinions elicits no sympathy from me. And calling out Christianity’s history of oppressive behavior and current trends in oppressive behavior is seen as being a mean meany and not “respectful”. Refusing to play “all opinions are equally valid” is not in and of itself out of line at all.

    Christians can say that their religion requires them to spend millions of dollars trying to deny me civil rights, but if I were to call their deities fictional and zombies, I’m the one who needs to be more respectful? People need to get their priorities straight.

    When atheists go after unpopular minority religions in a disproportionate way (which by and large tends to be no fucking more than the average Christian behavior on the matter) they deserve to be called out for their targeting, imperialism, racism, etc. not their mere refusal to pretend like religion is a legitimate thing in general. But as for white (or white coded branches of) Christians complaining about atheists not being “respectful”, smallest fucking violin in the world over here.

  67. I don’t see loving Christmas without being Christian as odd at all. Christianity took a pagan midwinter festival and co-opted it as a celebration of Jesus’ birth. Now a lot of people take the celebration of Jesus’ birth and co-opt it as a celebration of family and friends and being excellent to each other. The wheel turns.

  68. I would love to see Thanksgiving with NWO’s family. I’m sure there’s lots of eye-rolling and furtive whispers in the kitchen about his behavior.

    Worst Robert De Niro comedy ever. And that’s fucking saying something.

  69. You respect the intent of people’s irrational decisions, even if you don’t respect the content, and you realize the impact your mockery would have is out of proportion to the information it would provide.

    Intent’s not magic. I don’t generally like to mock religion because it can get pretty meanspirited sometimes and it’s usually an in-group morale boosting thing I don’t really want to participate in. But the fact that religious people “mean well” or are trying to “comfort” themselves or whatever is near irrelevant.

    I went to a funeral for my aunt a few weeks ago and I’m sure the pastor who lead it wanted to comfort us all. But he spent the entire funeral telling everyone to “go to Jesus”. He said that nobody should be sad because she’s in Heaven and said repeatedly that the only correct way to deal with your grief was to be “saved” and believe fervently that you were going to be reunited with her under Christ. He also spent time preaching against “false religions” and how no other religion had the message of salvation and therefore was useless. I’m not going to respect someone’s “intent” when they blatantly step all over the non-religious and the non-Christian and the non-evangelical-Protestant. If he intended to comfort us then he ought to have fucking sat down and thought really hard about death and grief and realized that dismissing everyone’s pain in favor of a bland message about Jesus (that everyone in the US has heard 9000 times) is a fucking awful thing to do.

    Also I know a lot of people here still love the cultural aspects and rituals of Christianity but I never really found any value in it even when I was a Christian, and a lot of people who deconvert from Christianity deconvert due to the culture and community. I hope everyone here realizes that the culture/rituals/community aren’t beyond criticism and that it’s not just the beliefs or tenets or doctrines of Christianity that do the work in oppressing people of other faiths or no faith. To some extent the actual doctrine of a religion is infinitely flexible (i.e. look at the difference between Catholicism, Mormonism, gnostic Christians and the Christian Identity movement) where it’s the culture that doesn’t budge and that determines the relative flexibility and content of beliefs. So someone’s “intent” is always going to occur within a certain context; for example, if a Christian Unitarian says they love all people under God it’s going to mean something completely different than if a white conservative evangelical Protestant tells me they love all people under God (because their idea of love includes “forcing me to stop experiencing same-sex sexual attraction” and “preventing women from having abortions”). You have to realize that even if you feel included and safe in a particular Christian or other religious context that not everyone else will. There’s this narrative that people like to perpetuate about religion that the ritual and the culture is awesome, or at least neutral and separable from everything else, and why can’t atheists join in or at least leave it alone and stop being such spoilsports?!?!?! Some people have been deeply burned or hurt by (a) religion, and they are not going to want to participate, and they have every right to speak out about this when they want to regardless of whether or not they harsh your buzz. There are more or less appropriate times to do this, of course, but you don’t get to shut their voice down just because they’re being critical (as DSC said, and being racist/imperialist/whatever is of course different). If you don’t want to see criticisms or mockery of your religion or your religious views you can always not read them or listen to them; this is what I did when I was a Christian.

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