A Voice for Men has 99 problems, and the word “bitch” is one.

Here’s JohnTheOther on A Voice for Men, complaining that Australian journalist Tory Shepard has unfairly accused “men’s rights extremists” associated with AVFM of using the term “lying bitches.”

“[L]ying bitches” might have [been] pulled from from a reader’s comment on one of more than 1200 articles on AVfM. But that phrase forms no part of this human rights movement’s standard rhetoric, which if Shepherd were a journalist, she would know.

Huh. Yeah, it’s probably just some sort of incredible fluke. Just one reader’s comment on one of more than 1200 articles!

Oops, I guess it was used more than once.

But it’s not like this sort of language is encouraged by JtO or his boss Paul Elam.

No, not at all!

To be fair, they don’t always refer to women as bitches. Sometimes they refer to women by the much more genteel “cunt.”

Like the time Elam described the CEO of the Good Men Project as “a disingenuous cunt that makes her living off trying to turn men into lap dogs.” And the time he referred to comedic actress Katherine Heigl as a “misandric cunt.” Oh, and that time he referred to a commenter on his site as “Ms. Cuntforbrains, or if you are male, Mr. Cuntforbrains.” And the time he referred to the feminist blogosphere as the “cunt-o-sphere.” Very witty!

I know, it’s unfair to cherry-pick comments from the guy who actually started and runs A Voice for Men. Clearly he isn’t representative of the site at all.

(Note: Yes, I did say yesterday that I wasn’t going to read that JtO post on general principle. And yes, I did read a little bit more of it. But I have not read the whole thing, and I never will!)

About David Futrelle

I run the blog We Hunted the Mammoth, which tracks (and mocks) online misogyny. My writing has appeared in a wide variety of places, including Salon, Time.com, the Washington Post, the New York Times Book Review and Money magazine. I like cats.

Posted on July 20, 2012, in a voice for men, antifeminism, evil women, hypocrisy, johntheother, lying liars, misogyny, MRA. Bookmark the permalink. 111 Comments.

  1. Who dictates who gets pwned? Someone who goes by the handle fembot?

    I am simply repeating something I heard on reddit. But I would say that, as a person with a firm grasp of reality who does NOT live in a hellish conspiratorial fantasy world, I am certainly more qualified to dictate pwnage than certain others.

  2. @NWO

    Those with glass handles should not throw stones😉

  3. Argenti: Scroll up, pecunium already explained libel laws, slander laws are the same thing

    They are similar,but slander is harder to prove. Speech has not the permanence of printed matter, and the ability of it to manifest outside the circle of those who heard it is less.

    Moreover the nature of the defamation is, usually, held to be of a lesser nature.

    So slander is a much less bothersome thing to be sued for.

  4. Had NWO vented his ire at Argenti?

    Well… does he thinks Argenti is a woman? Then yes.

    If Argenti isn’t cisgendered, than yes.

    If Argenti thinks feminism is a good thing, then yes.

    In short, yes.

  5. Argenti Aertheri

    “I’m not sure at all the Slavey understand what hate speech is, he seems to think that it’s saying anything negative about anyone. Like if I was to say “my last boss was an asshole”, that would be hate speech.”

    That would appear to be a correct reading of his usage of the term, yes.

    NWO — have you shown me any ire?! I can’t make a single damned comment without you bringing up irrelevant things, previous discussions, or, most recently, attacks on wtf you assume my gender to be.

    As for the feministe icon, I’m just going to paraphrase on friend here — she can’t use that without falling over, that’s hilarious.

    And cis is Greek, not Latin, so I can’t give too detailed a linguistic answer, but it means same. As in “your biology and gender are the same” — you are, I assume, a cis man. Your inability to understand trans* is a related problem, as trans is also Greek, and means across — which can imply either “crossing” genders (female to male or male to female) or “being across” genders, eg genderqueer, or genderfluid.

    …why am I attempting to explain this to Mr. “twig and berries”? (I really should’ve bookmarked that comment)

  6. Argenti Aertheri

    pecunium — I’m taking that question less as an honest question and more as baiting me not to ignore him, because there’s no fucking way he’d consider any answer besides mine valid (not that he actually gives a shit about anything I say).

    uncissed might be the worst thing I’ve heard today, but Ruby’s comment there is real competition, and it’s my damned birthday, I don’t want to figure out which is worse.

  7. Argenti Aertheri

    Oh and you’re right about slander, but he meant libel in context.

  8. Happy Birthday, Argenti Aertheri😀

    Are you having cake?

  9. Argenti Aertheri

    Fembot — seeing how that’d require me to make a cake, no cake…I am pondering breaking into the vodka soon though. And thank you!🙂

    Actually, double thank you, I don’t seem to have much to mix my vodka with, I should run out while cvs is still open. I’m thinking mango juice and vodka, since OJ will just piss off my stomach. Drinks anyone?

  10. Mango juice and vodka is yummy.

  11. CassandraSays

    Happy birthday! Fresh juice of the Odwalla/similar kind is usually good with vodka.

  12. Argenti Aertheri

    Ok Cassandra actually is as psychic as her namesake, I’ve just mixed myself up some Odwalla mango juice and vodka…nicely done there. And thank you🙂

  13. Happy birthday, Argenti!

  14. Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III

    Happy birthday!

  15. Happy Birthday!

    Party hard.

  16. Happy (possibly late) birthday from me too!

  17. Argenti Aertheri

    Meep, I didn’t mean to derail the thread with my birthday, but thank you all!

  18. No apologies needed. Happy times are better than NWO rants. I will pass on Mango, it is the sweat of demons, distilled and fermented, I abhor it.

    I shall have some pleasant bevande which pleaseth me, in your honor.

  19. Argenti Aertheri

    “I will pass on Mango, it is the sweat of demons, distilled and fermented, I abhor it.”

    Seeing how that’s basically how I feel about avocado, enjoy the bevande. To bad my best friend is in CT still or I’d have some Russian toasts, but I’m sure you know some yourself. (It isn’t mango vodka though, it’s mango juice and Gordon’s vodka, which was interesting to mix, the vodka hung in suspension for a bit, I wasn’t expecting that!)

  20. Happy Birthday! *much rejoicing*

  21. I abjure and renounce Mango: its acts, teachings, and works, in all it’s forms and manifestions. It anathema, a blight on the face of the earth. I declare it to be an abomination in the sight God and all right thinking people.

    Other people may, reasonably disagree (gustabus non disputandem, and all that), but only insofar as they don’t serve it to me; nor expect me to let them ripen in my home.

  22. CassandraSays

    What pecunium said, but with brussel sprouts.

  23. I love mango and brussel sprouts😦

  24. Happy Birthday, Argenti, i raise my cup of tea to your vodka glass *chink*

    (sadly,i am sworn off alcohol this month as part of “dry july” fundraiser for cancer survivors)

  25. @Argenti:

    —| HAPPY |—-
    –| BIRTHDAY|—

  26. Argenti Aertheri

    “I abjure and renounce Mango: its acts, teachings, and works, in all it’s forms and manifestions. It anathema, a blight on the face of the earth. I declare it to be an abomination in the sight God and all right thinking people.”

    Yeah well, we’ve already established that I’m nuts…and I can deal with dropping the de of de gustibus non est disputandem, but disputandem isn’t a proper verb without the est (then again, I guess dropping the to be verb would be the Pittsburghese of Latin?)

    Cassandra — seconding the ick, brussel spouts. (Sorry fembot!)

    And again, thank you everyone!🙂

  27. Argenti Aertheri

    BigMomma — that’s ok, it’s always time for tea (and now it’s time for my random EA song of the day!…this one is live, and probably NSFW, unless women in corsets and underwear is SF-where-you-W)

    Ithiliana — ASCII cake, D’AWW!

  28. Mango… distilled and fermented

    Would that be possible? Is there any particular reason spirits (as opposed to liquers or infusions) featuring larger/”fruitier” fruits aren’t really A Thing? I can only think of apple/pear/plum brandies, which aren’t very popular, and triple sec, which is from orange peels rather than the fruit itself, but that’s about it. It could have something to do with fruit being more expensive than grains/cacti/tubers as used for most of the popular spirits, but brandy’s still A Thing.

    Any distillation/spirits-savvy people here?

  29. Argenti: I defer to you, and blame my abilty to decipher it, rather than speak it; and futher the way “to be” isn’t used in Russian.

    That’s it… it’s the Russians’ fault.

  30. lowwuacks: Properly, the ferment is then distilled.

    As to why “heavier fruits” aren’t so much fermented… the other sugars, esters, and compounds tend to get really foul.

    That said, if it can be fermented, someone has done it (Orange wine.. bad. Grapefruit wine, worse).

    Cherries, peaches, apricots, have all been used as ways of getting a ferment to distill, but it’s trickier, and many of the things which are, “brandy” are actually infusions.

    Probably the most “interesting” of those that I am aware of is Cynar, which is distilled from fermented artichokes. It looks like Nyquil (that second letter is the same; coincidence… one has to wonder: I think not!), and it’s the only distilled beverage I have flat out refused to essay, the assay of my nose prevents me.

  31. doot doo doo doo doo dooooo
    doot doo doo doo doo dooooo
    doot doo doo doo dear Argenti
    doot doo doo doo doo dooooooooo

  32. Argenti Aertheri

    “That’s it… it’s the Russians’ fault.”

    Sure, why not! Simple version of how Latin handles the to be verb — usually it doesn’t exist, but when it does, it isn’t optional (helpful, I know). Est disputandum is a participle though, disputandum on its own would be some weird noun-verb-thing, it need the est to be a verb. So the actual simple version would be — were there’s an est, or a sum, you can’t drop it (that de though is medieval Latin, dropping that is fine by me…idfk why that’s even there, the -ibus ending covers of…)

    Cliff — lol, avoiding royalties on Happy Birthday?🙂

  33. And in russian… participles are different; the verb to be is implicit, even in future/past conditions.

  34. The real reason (of course) is I forgot the proper form of the aphorism. As to the intrusion of the “de”, it’s because medieval latin was spoken by people whose languages had stopped being declined (well, in the Romance language portions of the world) and so didn’t have the feel for the way “de”, etc. were redundant. Not wrong,per se, but not needed in all cases (save for emphasis, etc.).

  35. Argenti Aertheri

    You want weird? I’ve always thought of the two word participles as a single word, because the to be verb part is that much a part of the verb…but there is a space there, making it two words in English. As for the “de” yeah, but gustibus is declined, I mean, the redundancy makes sense in that context, but it’s silly (then again, I think all medieval Latin is silly).

    “The real reason (of course) is I forgot the proper form of the aphorism.”

    Google is your friend, wiki has a good list of Latin terms in common usage (which is nice for legal Latin, since few of those mean what they say)

  36. Yeah… but I am so familiar with it that I forget. Esp. as I recall it as, Non disputandum est; and I don’t know how the shift in position affects the subtleties of meaning.

  37. Argenti Aertheri

    disputandum est sounds more correct to my ear, but wiki says est disputandum — idk, maybe medieval Latin reversed it? Participles are one of the rare cases I thought word order actually mattered though.

  38. >Always the excuses abound. Little miss, crys-and-gets-160K gets a few insults directed soley at her

    I think it would take about… well at least a day to read out all the insults little miss 160K has recieved online just for that project. That seems like a lot of insulting directed towards a single person to me.

  39. Did you or did you not intentionally post the version of Time For Tea with the “I’m totally considering this my birthday party” line from the cameraperson in the intro?

  40. Argenti Aertheri

    whataboutthemoonz — that was accidental, I’ve got a playlist of the FLAG songs since the album isn’t out yet, that’s just the best version I could find the day after I saw that concert. Thank you though for reminding me that that album is coming out the 24th. *is a happy plague rat*

  41. @Kakanian

    That would be some great performance art. A woman stands and repeats every insult and threat Sarkeesian received online. How long would that show be?

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