Young women having sex with guys they’re attracted to: A dire threat to civilization itself

Aside from Men Going Their Own Way and others who have sworn off women altogether, the almost-exclusively straight dudes of the manosphere devote an incredible amount of time trying to figure out how to get into the pants of young, hot, “fertile” women in their teens and twenties, and complain bitterly about the terrible injustice they suffer when these women refuse to have sex with them.

And then they turn around and attack women in their thirties for actually wanting to have sex with them – because these women have committed the dastardly crime of having sex with other men when they were younger. In the parlance of our times the manosphere, this is known as “riding the cock carousel.”

Today we have a lovely example of this latter phenomenon, from prolific manosphere commenter “Deti,” who attacked  former “carousel riders” in this rant he left in the comments on The Woman and the Dragon. (There may be lots of equally horrible things in the comments there as well; I haven’t looked. I found Deti’s comment because it was highlighted as a piece of great wisdom on The Private Man, yet another terrible manosphere blog.)

Here’s Deti:

In light of the incalculable damage feminism has done, in light of our society being on the brink of irretrievable and total collapse, I think women need to ask themselves, individually and collectively:

Was it worth it?

Was the cock carousel worth it?

The sex, the occasional orgasms, the attention and validation, the rush, the feelings?

The drunk dancing on tables, the hangovers, the feelings of immediate regret, the knowledge that you’ve just been used as a semen receptacle (for the 14th time)?

We’re off to a rollicking start here. Apparently, table dancing and casual sex (with dudes who aren’t Deti) have brought civilization to its very knees.

Was it worth it?

The ridiculous thoughts to yourself that, no, THIS TIME it will be different. This time I won’t get f**ked over. This time I will get what I want. This time I will save it for a good man, a kind man, the right man — who never shows up.

Did you get what you wanted?

If what they wanted was casual sex with a guy they found attractive, then, uh, yes? (Whether it was good sex is another matter entirely.)

If they were looking for a longer-term relationship, and the guy did indeed turn out to be a jerk or otherwise incompatible, then, uh, no? I’m not quite sure why Deti assumes it’s the woman’s fault if the guy turns out to be Mr. Wrong. (Actually, scratch that: I do know why.)

Did the hot man, the rich man, the sexy man, the alpha, marry you? Did he give you the brass ring of commitment? Did he pledge his life to you? DId he promise to stay around for longer than just until he’s tired of f**king you and putting up with your bulls**t?

Or did you fall (again) for the player’s smooth line that “hey, I think it’s great that a woman like you can have sex with who she wants. That’s only fair. It’s a man’s world, and you should get to partake in it just like we do.”

Yep, that’s right, any man who thinks it’s ok for women to have casual sex with guys they find attractive is clearly an evil, manipulative player. And any woman who believes this is a sucker.

You get out of his bed. You’ve got to get to work this morning. You try to find your panties and put your miniskirt and 4 inch heels on to walk to your car and get an Egg McMuffin and some coffee.

Hey, come on man. Don’t bring the Egg McMuffin into this. Egg McMuffins are delicious.

You add another notch to your lipstick case (one you’ll have to come clean about someday to your therapist or drug counselor or ER doctor, if not your husband). He says “I had a great time. Let’s do it again. There’s some coffee downstairs. Help yourself. I’ve got a lot of things to do today so I need to get going. Sorry I can’t have you stay longer.” You reply weakly: “It’s OK. Call me, OK?” “Sure. You bet I will.”

Desi, worst slashfic writer ever.

LIttle do you know that he just infected you with genital herpes. You’ll find out in a week or so after the incubation period is up and you have festering blisters all over your pubic area. The pain is so excruciating you have to take the day off work, get some treatment at the ER, and stay in bed. You can’t wear panties because the weight of the fabric on the sores is too painful. You can’t walk because the skin on skin friction hurts. Oh well. I’m sure your future husband will understand.

I think we’ve just discovered a new kink: men turned on by the idea of women suffering herpes outbreaks so painful that they have to remove their panties.

In any case, herpes happens. Big deal. It’s a medical condition, not the act of an angry god. Nor is it spread primarily by sleazy players who don’t call women back. According to the CDC, roughly one in six Americans between the ages of 14 and 49 have genital herpes. And, as the CDC notes:

Most individuals infected with HSV-1 or HSV-2 experience either no symptoms or have very mild symptoms that go unnoticed or are mistaken for another skin condition.  Because of this, most people infected with HSV-2 are not aware of their infection.

Back to Detiland:

Tell me: does it occur to you that you did it again? Does it occur to you that you’ve f**ked up yet again? Are you getting it yet that the guy who blasted another load on your chest or in your hair last night has no intention of returning the texts you send him, unless it involves an encore performance?

I’m guessing that most women probably aren’t that interested in having any sort of ongoing relationship with a dude who “blasted a load” in their hair on the first date.

Does it dawn on you that maybe what you’re doing isn’t working and maybe you need to try something else? Does it dawn on you that the only things you really got out of last night were a couple of bottles of beer and bragging rights?

And sex, which may have been good or bad. Which is pretty much what the guy got.

It’s 6:45 am on a Sunday morning. You stumble through yet another Walk of Shame across the quad back to your apartment, with your hair and clothes reeking of Aqua Net and stale cigarettes and Old Style and semen.

Like I said: Worst slashfic writer ever.

You pray to God above that you don’t see any of your friends. He smiles on you and today, you are spared the agony of your good friends observing you in all your disheveled, deflowered ignominy. But you see mirror images. You pass by other girls in miniskirts and heels, some of whom lost their bras last night and couldn’t find them. You see other men on their way home, some of whom are hungover, some of whom have little smiles on their faces. You exchange knowing glances with both the men and the women, some of whom you kind of know, others you don’t — but the looks are the same.

“I know what you did last night”.

“I know WHO you did last night.”

Um, no, I’m thinking that most of those who see women walking across the quad on a Sunday don’t actually know who they had sex with, if anyone.

“That sex sucked. But he was hot.”

So again, if a man is crap in bed, women are to blame for not guessing this beforehand?

“I’m never doing this again.”

So as you get home, exhale a breath, disrobe and try to wash the stench from the oddly arousing yet horribly convicting things you did and you allowed another human being to do to you, on you and in you, do you ask:

Is this worth it?

I have a question of my own here: WTF is a “horribly convicting thing?”

Do you have anything more to show for your life than N>10, an STD, recurrent UTIs and probably an abortion in there somewhere?

If you assume that women are defined entirely by the bad casual sex they’ve had, then I guess the answer is “not much.” If you assume that women are actual human beings, like men, free to live the sexual life they want but not defined entirely by it, then I’m guessing the answer is yes.

Manosphere dudes complain (bitterly) when their critics describe them as dudes bitter because they can’t get sex. It’s hard not to describe them as such when they talk about this shit endlessly, and bitterly, on their blogs.

About David Futrelle

I run the blog We Hunted the Mammoth, which tracks (and mocks) online misogyny. My writing has appeared in a wide variety of places, including Salon,, the Washington Post, the New York Times Book Review and Money magazine. I like cats.

Posted on September 19, 2012, in alpha asshole cock carousel, alpha males, antifeminism, armageddon, bad boys, disgusting women, evil women, grandiosity, hypocrisy, misogyny, oppressed men, sex, shaming tactics, shit that never happened, sluts and tagged , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 530 Comments.

  1. As long as you’re here, NWO, I’ve been meaning to ask for a while: just what is your story? When you told us about your sister and your niece, some genuine warmth actually shone through. But unless I’ve missed an important thread somewhere, those are the only two relationships with women that we’ve heard about from you. Every other MRA or MGTOW is glad to tell us just when and why they started hating women. What’s your story?

  2. Why do you find it such a bloody imposition to avoid hurting your sex partners?

    You know how a lot of MRAs/MRA sympathizers don’t value the concept of consent? NWO doesn’t believe in consent. I’m not being hyperbolic; do a search on his comments. NWO truly does not believe in consent and truly does not believe that women have an independent sexuality.

    You know how a lot of men fantasize about a woman who loves sex and wants nothing more than to tear their clothes off? His fantasies involve sex slaves who are unwilling.

    NWO doesn’t believe in consent. He believes in obligation… maybe acquiescence. But not consent.

  3. (And for the record, hitting him or shoving back were the furthest thing from my mind, because they meant prolonging the body contact, and all I wanted was for it to stop. Let the “why didn’t she fight back?” crowd ponder that as well).

    This too. ALL the trigger warnings for molestation – I’ve not been raped, but I was coerced into touching someone’s privates for years when I was a little girl. Even at my angriest and most disgusted – when I’d have the most violent thoughts of horrible things happening to my abuser, I didn’t even want to spend time thinking about exacting any sort of revenge (which was very unlike me, as I was a kid with a pretty terribad temper) because it meant having to prolong my thoughts about the abuse, which meant acknowledging that the abuse was real. And my abuser knew how to exploit that as well. Each time, my abuser would promise me that it was the last time, they wouldn’t make me again, they’d leave me alone. And desperate to have them leave me alone, I’d do what they wanted because I didn’t think I could tell anyone – I thought I would get in trouble (which might not have been far from the truth, all things considered) and I just wanted it to STOP already.

    They KNEW what they were doing was wrong, that the only reason I let them do it is because they wouldn’t leave me alone, I thought I would get in trouble, etc. Most rapists and molesters know what they are doing is wrong, the problem is when other people call them out on it. They know what they do is wrong, but you can’t call them out on it because then they might look like bad people and that would be terrible!

    Given that even years later my abuser (who I do still see, given our relation) has voiced opinions that certain types of people “ask for it” a la short skirts, etc, I’m of a very firm mind that yeah, at least a good portion of the most vehement of apologists are probably apologists because they don’t want to have to accept that they have done horrible things to other people.

  4. Regarding sexual socialism – ick, that’s a horrifying idea. Do the fools who think up these ideas not realize that this means that even if they can get teh secks under the sexual socialism rule, the likelihood that they’ll be able to get to bone the supermodels they think they deserve is STILL very unlikely? Even if the people who think sexual socialism is a good idea don’t give a shit that it means that women will be forced to have sex with men they find unpleasant (gross) it also means that men will probably be paired with women they find less than desirable as well. Can the men then turn them down? Is it that women can’t turn men they are paired up with but men can? Or do both parties have to participate, no matter what? All options are disgusting to even ponder, but I often feel a lot of MRAs don’t seem to understand that not every guy can always be screwing a woman with a supermodel body because that body-type is very rare. I’m not suggesting that they have to lower their standards per se, but I am pretty sure that given that people’s attractions and preferences are so varied, the sexual socialism isn’t such a great idea for them either.

    Even assuming the bogus 80/20 theory isn’t just that, bogus, I’m pretty sure mandating that people have sex with people not of their choosing is a recipe for fail.

  5. Creative Writing Student


    At the very least, what if people with incompatible sexuality got put together?

    “Where’s the penis?” “WHY ARE THERE SO MANY PENISES?!” “You look pretty girly, wear the fake bra and I’ll pretend that you’re actually wearing a strap-on…”

  6. @Creative Writing Student
    But gay people don’t have any problem having sex, doncha know? So if you’re gay you become exempt from the system if you present two forms of valid gay picture ID.

  7. Have you read “we”? It was a big inspiration for George Orwell when he wrote 1984, but I like “we” better. In this dystopian future there’s a law that if a person requests that you come to zir apartment and have sex, you must oblige. The purpose of this law is to prevent sexual frustration. And it goes for men and women alike. Everybody just accepts this as they accept everything else in their society.

    Anyway, as the story starts our hero has a steady girlfriend, whose simultaneously the girlfriend of his best friend, and they’re all pretty… content with the way things are. It’s very undramatic. And then this dominant revolutionary woman whom he’s simultaneously attracted to, repelled by and scared of drags him into a relationship with her.

  8. “The purpose of this law is to prevent sexual frustration. And it goes for men and women alike. Everybody just accepts this as they accept everything else in their society.”

    That’s horrible. Why can’t we just have safe, legal, consenting sex workers take care of frustration? Maybe MRAs should be working to REMOVE the stigma against paying for sex, since it only contributes to their sexual frustration.

  9. Right – that’s not even figuring that duh, there a lots of people out there who aren’t straight. Would the government control for them as well or do they figure gay men or gay women can have as much sex as they want all the time because there isn’t an 80/20 rule?

    I’m pretty sure my single gay friends would also be pretty horrified at the idea of being issued a government sex partner.

    I’m all for socialization of essentials like food, water, and electricity but even if you think sex is essential to survival (it’s not) the government cannot provide you with OTHER PEOPLE. They’re basically proposing we enact state sanctioned slavery.

  10. @Fembot: Well, if you’re sexually frustrated it WOULD make sense to work against the stigma of sex work, and God forbid that they’d do something that MADE SENSE.

    Although I do wonder how big the supply of happy sex workers hypothetically is. I mean, imagine a situation where sex work is legal and there’s no stigma at all. But also imagine that nobody is forced to do it, the way people can be forced to do other jobs. Like, if you’re on unemployment insurance you won’t get your money if you turn down jobs that you’re qualified for but don’t really wanna do. And everyone who wants to legalise sex work seems to agree that you SHOULDN’T be forced to prostitute yourself or else lose your unemployment insurance, the way you can be forced to work at McDonalds or else lose your unemployment insurance – we ought to retain this difference between sex work and other jobs that require no education. So in our imagined utopia, all sex workers do this because they are really perfectly okay with having sex with anyone who asks (well, as long as the person doesn’t seem dangerous), even when they’re totally not attracted to that person.

    Now in this happy situation, how many people would be sex workers? I don’t know, maybe there would be a lot, people are different. It’s just that, I used to be a total slut, and I still wouldn’t have sex with people whom I was totally not attracted to. And it seems like most sluts are like that. Maybe there would be enough people willing to do this if it was legal and no stigma attached to satisfy the demand, and maybe there wouldn’t. One can’t just assume that supply would match demand in this imagined utopia.

  11. I should add that I agree with the rest of you that the sex law in “We” is terrible, and it’s meant to be a dystopia after all.

  12. @Dvärghundspossen

    […]the way you can be forced to work at McDonalds or else lose your unemployment insurance – we ought to retain this difference between sex work and other jobs that require no education.

    Well, I may be just a big commie, but I also don’t think people should be forced to work at McDonalds or else lose their unemployment insurance. If people want to work at McDonalds it’s one thing, but they shouldn’t have to choose between soul-crushing work and starving.

  13. I’ve been on unemployment before and am now. I haven’t been forced to apply for jobs I do not want. Although I do have to give information on at least 4 places I have contacted to look for work a week.
    Having worked at a welfare office before, I could see that happening to people on welfare though under “workfare” programs. In those programs, if you do not find a job within a month, you have to “volunteer”* at an employer in the program to gain job experience.

    *voulenteer is in quotes because obviously if the person on welfare does not choose one of the job options given they lose their benefits.

  14. Why can’t we just have safe, legal, consenting sex workers take care of frustration?

    What’s the fun in that?

    No, I’m serious. For a lot of johns, the fact that the prostitutes they’re hiring are not consenting, that it’s not safe, etc., is the whole point. I mean, do you really think owly or Meller want to hire someone happy to have sex with them?

  15. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    Exactly, Nepenthe. Seems to me the whole reason Owly and all too many other MRAs foam at the mouth about the very idea of consent, or of rape being a crime, is that rape is the only thing they’re interested in sexually. Look at Owly’s “Is that a moan of pleasure or pain” comment just before – seems to me that sudden pain during sex you’ve been enjoying would be more like an “Ow!” than a moan, which suggests pain that’s been going on a while, and that in turn (consensual kinks aside) doesn’t suggest a scenario where one person gives a damn about the other. Actually it just sounds like Owly was doing more than just spit on his keyboard at the thought of it. He probably fancies himself as that jackass from Fifty Shades of Shit.

  16. @Myoo: Well, I don’t think you should hound unemployed people around either. We can obviously afford, as a society, having lots of people out of job, since there have been times when unemployment’s been high and yet the economy’s going well. So what’s the point with hounding people like crazy? But even people who a) think we should legalise prostitution and b) do think unemployed people are a lazy bunch that need a blow torch to their arse, always (in my experience) still believe that nobody should be pushed to prostitute zirself if zie doesn’t want to.

    And well, I haven’t been unemployed for long, but basically, here in Sweden and with the right-wing parties in charge, they get progressively tougher on you the longer you stay unemployed. Firstly it’s just report every week what jobs you’ve been seeking and get nagged on for not seeking more jobs, but eventually you’ll be more or less forced to do some shit job for no money at all.

  17. timetravellingfool

    Workfare. Is. Evil. Never mind the obvious, like the hours and wages of these low income jobs are shit, making it impossible for a worker to, say, raise a family or increase their skill level to possibly get a better job in the future. Also, these jobs- generally not resume-building material. The reeaaally fucking nasty bit is where they are jobs that any company might have and benefit from, but our tax dollars are paying for them. So the company gets all the benefits of an employee at a discount price and tax payers are guaranteed to continue paying into that employee because there is virtually no reasonable way to advance in these circumstances. Arghlebrlargle angry now.

  18. timetravellingfool

    Yeah, people really value domestic work. The thought, the mere thought of having a system where unemployed moms could conceivably raise some emotionally and physically healthy citizens through a social safety net is so repugnant to people they would rather pay their wages for insanity-makingly rich companies like Mc Donalds to take these people out of the home and away from any possibility of improving their life circumstances.

  19. sunshine: Perhaps you might want to google, “pegging”, and share the results with M. Collard.

  20. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    Timetravellingfool, that sounds exactly like the situation here in Australia with ‘work for the dole’ – dead-end work, no training, and no more money than the dole itself, which is way below poverty level. Plus of course there are the costs of going to work, so people end up worse off. Exploitation and a punitive attitude. This sort of crap is why the Commonwealth employment agency is the one job I walked out of: it was too horrible to be doing that to people.

  21. This subject interests me greatly. Yes, I was a beta male/”nice guy,” whatever. But after college I changed my life by investing in David DeAngelo’s products thinking that it would solve all of my problems with women: it didn’t. Much to manosphere chagrin, 80% of the women do swing for the fences and pursue and sleep with the top 20% of the (Alpha male) men thinking that these guys will commit to them. Faux pas! I did have my bitterness, anger issues, etc. I’m only human. But after whooping cancer’s ass, it occured to me that the majority of these women are going to be left with very few options which include going back to the Beta Males that they spurned before. And a lot of Betas are not going to accept you ladies 1. Infidelity is highly likely on your part. 2. When you were partying it up with the Alphas, the Beta worked hard, got his degrees and now has money that HE worked for and will not enable you to take it from him in the event of a divorce (most likely initiated by you). 3. He’s not going to take care of your illegitamate children sired by the bad boy because the kids will resent him and the woman will not respect him. Nobody in their right mind would co-sign that.

    I’ve already said it: YES, I was the ignored Nice Guy/Beta/Whatever. The lessons learned about women were excruciating. Hated it but I’m glad it happened. As a result, I learned how to be “Cocky and Funny.” I’m a force on the dance floor and a Tom Cat in the sack (because Betas are Passionate Lovers). I also know how to spot one of these women who wasted their lives when they hit on me (Sorry ladies, I’m not having it). And more importantly, I can recognize a QUALITY woman when I see one. Keep your head up, Betas/Nice Guys, there is a light at the end of your teens and 20;s. It’s called your 30’s. Leave ordinary behind and reinvent yourself into a better You. MGTOW.

    Peace, [redacted by df].

  22. @Jerald

  23. OK, let me try that again

  24. Oh, ffs

  25. Jerald, have you considered writing for infomercials? You’ve got that “presentational but still boring somehow” patter down.

  26. (also, is there such a thing as a Gamma male? Can I be that? I wanna be a Gamma male.)

  27. I’m a Tom Cat in the sack

    We have footage of this.

  28. shade:

  29. Dang, Shade beat me to the Hulk joke.

  30. And wow, he said something so awful David felt he had to redact it.

    Holy cow.

  31. @Falconer, it may have contained personal information? Or the n-word I guess.

  32. Wow… I didn’t know I was so alpha. I mean I look at what the dudes who are complaining say, and I think about my life. I compare the bare facts of my life to what they say and fuck… I’m alpha.

    What I remember is lots of time wondering why the women I was interested in were, more often than not, interested in someone else.

    I also remember the women I knew (some of whom were those same women) being said for the same reason. Sometimes (in a fit of RomCom in everyday life; happened to me once, that I know of) people were were interested in each other failed to make it plain, one to the other.

    Then I got more comfortable with being rejected, and a little better at telling people I was interested.

    Lo and behold, there were more sexy-times. There were relationships. People had fun. People had heartbreak. The world continued as it always had.

  33. @pecunium — sometimes I wonder whether I am alpha, beta, or omega

    And then I remember that I’m a human being

  34. (that said, my observations are similar to yours.)

  35. Oh yeah… I mean the whole Alpha, Beta Gamma shit is utter rubbish. I know because I am, by the measure they say matters, “alpha”. But I am also, by the same measures, “beta”, which means their “system” is bull.

  36. Yes absolutely! I personally have strong alpha, beta, AND omega elements, really, and none of them seem to be the driving facet that makes me succeed at relationships or sex.

    I guess that it’s sorta like assigning people to heaven or hell-bound status, you know? A way to make a complicated world that frightens them make more sense.

  37. You add another notch to your lipstick case

    You can Pat my Ben
    Pat my Ben
    Pat my Ben
    Pat my Benatar

    Pissed in your pimp cup
    Drink up

  38. I don’t want to be mean or anything but in what universe are ALL hotties bad in bed?

  39. That “deti” character – I read some of its rantings before. And I found out that it is nothing more than an unattractive, former “nice guy” who got rejected many times due to its unattractiveness. But instead of manning up and letting the rejection build character, it allowed the memory of those rejections to have an exaggerated emotional impact. This “deti” creature is, in effect, a hypersensitive, overemotional loser that trolls the Internet posting redundant garbage and calling it “logic.” It is a basket case that needs a therapist. “Deti” – the Internet does not replace professional help.

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