JohnTheOther of A Voice for Men Seems to be Completely Losing Touch With Reality

The imaginary feminist conspiracy plots against JohnTheOther

The imaginary feminist conspiracy plots against JohnTheOther

I am beginning to wonder – seriously wonder — if JohnTheOther of A Voice for Men has completely lost touch with reality.

Take a look at this angry, delusional tirade he posted on Reddit yesterday after a couple of his AVFM comrades were banned from Reddit, possibly for their promotion of “doxxing” – that is, their attempts to find and reveal the personal information of a Toronto feminist activist. In this embarrassing public meltdown, JtO turned on the regulars in the Men’s Rights subreddit for criticizing AVFM’s doxxing campaigns – and accused them, astonishingly, of being a gang of closet feminists.

Here are some excerpts; the whole thing is nearly 700 words long.

Dear feminists, and by feminists, I mean most of you sorry cretins who inhabit r/mensrights. …

Why do any of you dolts imagine Paul, Dean, myself and other actual MRAs advocate public exposure of the evangelists of hatred and the initiators of proxy violence? Do you think, in your pea brains we intend harm to come to the cretins we document? A summary pass through any of our collected writing will quickly disabuse you of that stupid assumption.

Really? You may recall that when once upon a time I suggested to John that harm might come to some of those AVFM targeted in a previous doxxing campaign, he responded with a dismissive “[a]nd what if they get killed David?”

His recent tirade continues:

In fact the concern over the practice of outing the agents of hatred and the initiators of proxy violence is not a moral concern at all. It’s fear of offending the powerful. On Reddit, that would be the feminist hegemony who seem able to indulge in any cruelty and hate with impunity – on the misguided notion that if only we in the r/mr reddit were a bit nicer, they’d come right around and embrace the undeniable reality of our concerns.

Stupid and cowardly. Thats what this concern is.

And just in case any of you slow-witted dolts haven’t got it yet, while I wont do it on reddit – respecting the rules of the house here, outside of this forum, I will publish the name of anyone – male or female, MRA or Feminist who advocates violence or initiates violence, including by proxy, and I’ll do it with satisfied smile on my face, and not even a slight twinge of guilt.

Ironically, AVFM seems to have had no problem with the “proxy violence” of the police in Toronto against the feminist protesters at the Warren Farrell talk that has inspired all this drama. (See here for footage of the police removing protesters by force.)

Or do you snivelers think accountability is only for men, and that women, or feminists (including feminist men) have a free licence to commit and cultivate violence and hate?

Do you think women are so fucking helpless and infantile they cannot possibly own any accountability – even in the commission of direct violence? If you /do/ think this, then you are indistinguishable from a gender ideologue, and you will have earned my unlimited contempt. How can you possibly oppose violence without supporting accountability for it’s direct and proxy initiation?

Oh, and if anybody, after reading this cares to claim that publicly identifying the initiators of violence is /actually/ a backhanded technique for putting them in harms way, then you’re too stupid to be allowed to participate in an adult conversation. Yes, you too David.

Thanks for the shoutout. The woman in question “initiated” no violence. You can find my post explaining why I think your doxxing campaign is dangerous here.

I expect I’ll be getting banned on reddit directly after posting this, which will simply be the wider reddit community making itself even less relevant on the topic of the Men’s Rights Movement.

And to the Reddit Admins: Go on, ban me, and tell yourselves the violence cultivated and committed by the feminist community is harmless because it principally targets men.

He has not been banned.

In several followup comments on Reddit, he expanded on his bizarre assertion that the Men’s Rights subreddit is dominated by feminists. At one point he wrote:

there are over 50,000 subscribers to this sub-reddit. Do you think there are 50,000 MRAs here? or about 10,000 MRAs, and about 40,000 feminists.

Meanwhile, he’s continued to rail on about an incident in which he claims to have been threatened by a knife-wielding mob of feminists. In one recent comment on Reddit, he wrote:

I saw box-cutters the last time I dealt with a mob of feminists, and I believe the violence in their movement is dialling rapidly UP. And that’s why attaching identity to behaviour matters. Or we could do nothing substantive, condemn it without any real effect, and wait until we have some serious, and possibly deadly violence from them before we start looking for names.  

Trouble is, this confrontation with a “mob” of violent feminists never happened.

As I pointed out in an earlier post, video put online by John and his supporters shows not a confrontation with a mob but a mildly heated verbal argument between John and a handful of feminist activists who are evidently using a boxcutter not to threaten him but to take down some posters of his. If there really is footage of JtO being threatened by a boxcutter-wielding mob, I would like to see it.

In a posting on AVFM, meanwhile, JtO offers a similarly paranoid fantasy coupled with a threat:

Dear feminists,

I see you, and I hear you, and I notice the knife in your hand, and the machine gun drawn on your placard. I get it, you’re not kidding, and I know you are not speaking metaphorically. You want to kill. We all get that you are entirely serious. But your violence – as you obviously dial it upwards will not be met. It will not be answered and you are uninvited from the rumble.

But where are you going with this brutality? Do you really want this to devolve to a street-fight? Really?

I think at this point JtO’s biggest beef is with reality.

Meanwhile, some of the more sensible voices on the Men’s Rights subreddit – yes, there are a few – continue to try to explain why AVFM’s doxxing campaigns are bad for everyone. In one comment, a Redditor called ibm2431 breaks down the damage he thinks Elam et al are doing to the Men’s Rights cause:

For what purpose will their names be made known?

They’re not prominent members of a movement. They have no real power or influence. They’re just stupid students who love their misandrist circlejerk.

So, again, why the effort?

To harass them. Don’t pretend for a second that (almost obsessively) hunting down their identities to “expose” them will do anything else. …

[Elam] must satisfy his lust for vengeance by hunting down a couple of stupid students. He can try to dress it up as some sort of moral righteousness, but that doesn’t change the fact that his sole motivation is vengeance. He must know that there is no benefit to “exposing” them other than to open them up to harassment.

And if you realize that such actions only benefit those who claim that MRAs are hateful people who will dox those that disagree with them? …

Oh, but don’t worry, you’re not stooping to the protesters’ level by trying to censor their speech. You’re just trying to chill it. You’re just demonstrating that if they disagree with you that you’ll try to hunt them down, “expose” them, and open them up to god only knows what kind of retribution from your posse of internet warriors.

Yes Paul, the protesters made you very angry. They made us all angry. But there’s a line to be drawn between being righteously angry, and using that anger as an excuse to try to harass people. Being able to recognize that line is what helps to see what helps the movement, and what only serves to hurt it.

If the Men’s Rights movement has any hope of becoming anything other than a hate movement, it had better listen to people like this – rather than retreating into hateful delusions, as JohnTheOther and Paul Elam seem intent on doing.

About David Futrelle

I run the blog We Hunted the Mammoth, which tracks (and mocks) online misogyny. My writing has appeared in a wide variety of places, including Salon,, the Washington Post, the New York Times Book Review and Money magazine. I like cats.

Posted on December 8, 2012, in a voice for men, antifeminism, drama kings, evil women, hate, hypocrisy, imaginary backwards land, incoherent rage, internecine warfare, johntheother, lying liars, melodrama, men who should not ever be with women ever, MRA, none dare call it conspiracy, oppressed men, paul elam, playing the victim, reddit, straw feminists and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 96 Comments.

  1. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    Riiight … this after David took down JohnTheOtter’s formerly-used real name at JtO’s request. Yup, murderous fanatics, feminists.

  2. I always read JohnTheOther’s name as “JohnTheOtter”

    I am so glad that I’m not the only one who thought that.

  3. Notice how suz doesn’t even mention the threats of rape? She can’t. She can’t even acknowledge them because she knows they’re indefensible. She knows they’re horrible and terroristic in nature and that she can’t find any possible way to minimize or whitewash such aggressive, misogynistic behaviour.

    The MRM/MRAs claim that they have no idea what would happen should they publicly identify the woman in the video. Yet they do not bother to condemn those who make violent threats towards their intended. “Doxxing” target.

    I don’t think the RCMP or the Toronto Police would hesitate to open a very thorough investigation into these threats should anything happen to this protester.

    …and as an aside to the ‘Mericans in the comments here:

    Here in Canada we are not guaranteed a “right to free speech”. We aren’t even guaranteed the right to protest. Most of the time this means we need permits and permission to hold demonstrations, so it’s not unusual up here to have the police break up a protest that doesn’t have the right paperwork or who’s participants aren’t playing by the carefully defined rules/by-laws that govern these types of activities. That the protesters blocking the entrance were forcibly removed by law enforcement is no surprise. There are normally city by-laws that prevent such action by anyone due to safetyy concerns.

  4. Creative Writing Student

    I maintain a pseudo anonymity because I know my opponents do not have any such compunction, and would not only wage a scorched earth campaign on my like, they’d murder me if they could.

    I think you mean ‘lego-scattering campaign’. Although given his track record with the boxcutters, I think he would perceive a feminist with a box of lego to be a murder attempt.

  5. Creative Writing Student: I think he means only the fear of being arrested keeps “them” from murdering him.

    How the, “any woman can yell rape and ruin a man’s life” and, “the police have to believe a woman if she says a man attacked her” and, “women are almost never prosecuted” and, “even if they get convicted they aren’t really punished” add up to a realistic argument for his being protected by the law, I don’t understand.

    In the world he describes so much as intimating women might not be wonderful ought to lead to his personal destruction. The level of vitriol and anger he’s expressed out to have had one of the “Feminist Ninja Death Teams” taking him out years ago.

    Yet still he lives, and rants, even after the Box-Cutter Incident.

  6. Does anybody else feel like the Box-Cutter incident is a really perfect analog to the entire manosphere? Privileged assholes feeling threatened by criticism and appropriating the actual violence committed against minorities for their fake ’cause.’

  7. Creative Writing Student

    Pecunium: Yeah, which does contrast with the behavior of the majority of feminists I have observed. I mean, on here it’s mostly wishes of mild misfortune (I hope you step on a lego, I hope you turn the taps on too much and get sprayed with water, I hope they stop selling your favourite chocolate bar et cetera) and anything worse gets called out. Whereas on various MRA sites including AVFM its possible to pull up at least one pro-rape or pro-abuse quote per day, and many direct, specific death and rape threats.

    I think he’s projecting the average behavior of his allies onto his opponents. No wonder he’s paranoid.

  8. Heh. I was discussing the Curse of Minor Inconvenience last night – I can’t remember which of my thoughts was deemed Actually Bad… I know it wasn’t “may your internet cut out repeatedly, only managing to stay up long enough for you to notice it’s up again and try to do something.”

  9. Now all these creative curses of minor inconvenience are making me miss when #ihopericksantorum was a thing.

    If you go back 15 pages or so on the Tumblr blog you can see some of them, but the tag appears to be dead 😦

    (For some creative well-wishes, check out I Hope Barack Obama. +1 Internets to whoever staked out that URL before the Tumblrpublicans got to it)

  10. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    I really like those Barack Obama ones!

    Not least the “I hope he gets to listen to a really poorly prepared concession speech,” heheh.

  11. My favorite Curse of Minor Inconvenience is still may you be stuck on a really long flight with zealous missionaries on either side of you and a small child who constantly kicks the back of your seat directly behind you.

  12. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    One could get really nasty and add air sickness to that long flight.

  13. I’m the bitch who would wish for snakes on a plane, maybe. (But really only for the lulz.)

  14. I know someone who had an airline lose his luggage on the way to a conference. When he reminded them what was in it, they found it; in jig-time.

    He had 20 rattlesnakes in his checked baggage.

  15. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH that is fucking brilliant🙂

    Although I have to ask, to what type of conference does one bring 20 rattlesnakes?

  16. My bet would be a snake breeders’ show.

  17. It was a medical conference on the uses of antivenin. He is a Ph.D Biologist in medical research; as well as a herp-lover.

  18. … dammit

    I now want to see an adorable snake being slightly stupid, captioned:

    herp derp

  19. Who gives a shit? I don’t understand what’s wrong with men trying to fight for change as it concerns them. Why does everyone have such a problem with that? I thought the argument was, “Just because someone has it worse doesn’t mean you can’t try to make a change.”

    From where I stand, as a somewhat unbiased observer, it is YOU people who seem like hypocrites. How is it even a thing were people expect not to have their name associated with their work? Some new internet-age bullshit invented by a bunch of paranoid dumbasses with an unjustified persecution complex? “Oh no, some guy will rape me because I’m a dumbass feminist”. That’s just as bad as John’s paranoia about being assaulted by feminists.

    But seriously. How do all of you avoid the cognitive dissonance of being against “men’s rights”? So fucking stupid… Jesus…

  20. Hi Jethro, thanks for playing “Let’s Necro a Thread!”

  21. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    Gawd, there are some pathetic WAHH WAHH WAHH what about teh menz trolls around at the moment. Apparently none of them can read for comprehension. That, or they think “men’s rights” really are violence against women, removal of women’s voting rights, removal of our right to work, removal of what limited reproductive control we have over our own bodies …

  22. Because men already have all the rights and MRAs are just whining about their perceived lack of privilege, Jethro. They also don’t believe women are fully human, so kiss my ass about men’s “rights.”

  23. Why do they always think they’re being brave when they necro threads?

  24. It amuses me how everyone assumes that how the world looks to them is how it looks to “an unbiased observer.”

    Pray tell, who is this unbiased observer of whom you speak? Is zie male or female? What country is zie from? How old is zie?

  25. The troll’s got a brain in his head –
    he’ll sneak into threads once they’re dead
    and amaze with his wit!
    But will he now quit
    when he learns that his comments were read?

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