MRA History Lesson: Women have been getting a free-ride off the backs of men SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME


Here’s your Quote of the Day from the Men’s Rights subreddit. Well, not so much of THIS day as of a day four months ago, but, hey, I only discovered it today with the assistance of the AgainstMensRights subreddit. Bonus points if you can tell me what the hell a “public organ-orifice” is and/or how an AVALANCHE can “blare.”


Quite and excellent comment indeed!

And onward marches the World’s Greatest Guaranteed Top Quality Human Man Rights Man-Movement of the Twenty-First Century!

About David Futrelle

I run the blog We Hunted the Mammoth, which tracks (and mocks) online misogyny. My writing has appeared in a wide variety of places, including Salon,, the Washington Post, the New York Times Book Review and Money magazine. I like cats.

Posted on March 29, 2013, in antifeminism, evo psych fairy tales, imaginary backwards land, imaginary oppression, lazy women eating bon bons, misogyny, MRA, oppressed men, reddit, white knights and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 463 Comments.

  1. @TomBcat, other people have responded more constructively but can I say that this guy sounds like the arseweasel to end all arseweasels and super-gross and I want to fly to wherever he is and hit him with a rolled newspaper.

  2. Am MRA ex? How awful.

    It’s a lot of fun actually, until he gets personal. His logical fallacies, inability to accept differing opinions mixed with an easily upset nature would make him an awesome rage troll. I find those who go from fake eloquence to exploding red head exceptionally amusing.
    I kept him around because he is a good friend otherwise and watching his bitterness ruin his life made me feel sorry(as it does basically all his friends). He also involuntarily taught me a lot about when and how to (or not to) argue.

  3. If he can’t take no as an answer (no matter when it comes) he shouldn’t be allowed the chance to hear you say yes.

    QFT and I’ll keep that in mind.

    And now you forever branded my memory of him with the picture of him opening the door to a random person hitting him on the nose with a newspaper yelling: “bad arseweasel, very bad!” who then goes away without any explanation whatsoever.

    After that, he may step on as many legos as got ever mentioned on this website.

  4. It’s basically been dealt with, TomBcat, but ENTHUSIASTIC CONSENT. If it stops being consensual, or even stops being enthusiastic, I stop doing it. If you’re not consenting enthusiastically to something he should be absolutely walking-on-glass careful if he’s trying to move forward with it; the default is that it doesn’t happen, not that you have to just shut up about it.

  5. *hands you some rolled up newspaper …rolled around a mace*

    Just in case. ^^❤

  6. It’s a lot of fun actually, until he gets personal.

    I’m so sure. What could possibly be more fun than a boyfriend who’s not 100% sure you’re not human and deserving of rights?

  7. Hmmph, too many nots. Either way, my bullshit detectors have redlined.

  8. Not a fun boyfriend, but when he was he wasn’t MRA but had some weird tendencies I ignored because I was young and stupid and thought he was always right. Afterwards we didn’t have contact for years in which he became very extreme in his opinions. I met him again, we did fun friend stuff and then one day he pulled out some study about the different ways people are holding hands which he thought was proof for male dominance. And yeah, that seemed pretty funny to me.

  9. You don’t say.

  10. ok, so I guess I said something wrong, but I don’t know what it is.

  11. @tomBcat

    my best guess is hellkell didn’t like you saying it was fun. *shrugs*

  12. Tom, you shouldn’t have to put up with a guy who will not be respectful of your wishes. Other people can give you better advice than me, but it’s probably safest just not to spend any time around him, because if he thinks he can push you around, he will keep doing it.

    It’s also probably not a good idea to be around your MRA ex unless you’re REALLY sure you’ve got it in hand. You know how fast these guys can get scary and it’s often directed at exes.

  13. TomBcat — I feel like I’m just echoing a chorus here, but dude was so far out of line he probably couldn’t have found the line in his rear view mirror. He sounds a great deal like my gaslighting narcissist ex — leaving you questioning whether you can trust your perception of things, or are maybe just overreacting, says he didn’t mean it like that so he must not’ve. To steal a Doctor Who line “run, just run”. He won’t change, he’ll just keep pushing your boundaries and if he’s anything like my ex sooner or later he’ll push them so far you forget where they are. You don’t owe him shit, and honestly, hard as it is, you may just want to cut contact with him, period.

    Good luck, he sounds like the sort of asshole who’s best dealt with via scorched earth methods. And working up the nerve to do that can be quite hard.

    In any case, he’s totally and utterly out of line, and if he thinks he can wake you up by touching you inappropriately…well, I wouldn’t be surprised if he were capable of worse.

  14. I can haz reading skills!

    “Other people can give you better advice than me, but it’s probably safest just not to spend any time around him, because if he thinks he can push you around, he will keep doing it.”

    Yeah, that.

  15. Maybe I gave away the wrong impression.
    We broke up years ago, and he isn’t big on that fucked up revenge stuff either. I don’t know when he got sucked into all this MRA ideology, he still thinks women are people who have the right to not sleep with other people, including him, he doesn’t make creepy threats, but he believes all the alpha male, women-stealing-sperm and making up false accusations stuff and became impossible to argue with and since he had very different views five years ago, I won’t wait around to see him change for the worse.
    I just don’t want you to think he’s dangerous.

    I just wrote that to basically explain how I’m a stupid person who doesn’t see the flashing warning signs because I want to be nice to everyone and have a habit of thinking that whatever is wrong must be my fault.

    I just shouldn’t have said anything, I feel like everything came out wrong and I’ve talked far too much already.

    So I’m going to stop this, come back some other time and post something on topic.
    I’m really sorry for talking about this stuff, I shouldn’t have done it.

    Bye and compliments to your comfy couch that is this blog.

  16. @Argenti
    Thanks, that sounds awfully familiar and I’m sorry you had to put up with this.
    Here I thought it would be different if I stayed single, but now you’re telling me about you there’s not that much difference.

    Again, sorry, maybe I’m just really dysfunctional today, I don’t know why I’m so frightened of doing the wrong thing here, I constantly feel like the most annoying non-troll around.

    Thank you everyone who tried to help, I’m gonna go, feel stupid for a while and return as a normal person.

  17. “I constantly feel like the most annoying non-troll around.”

    Don’t worry, I think we all have a phase like that when we’re new, you’ll settle in fine. And you’re welcome to stay if you want, or go do something else, or whatever, but no need to feel stupid!

    But yeah, actual official dating status means little to creeps, and I’m sorry you have one creeping on you (creep is totally a verb!)

    That ex was years ago, but thank you all the same.

  18. opium4themasses

    @tombcat You don’t need to feel self conscious of being the center of attention. Also, words are hard, that’s why good communication requires an acknowledgement of the message received.

    So far the only things about you in yourself have revealed have been vulnerabilities which others have exploited. These are signs of inexperience and sometimes youth, so people naturally fall into advice giving. Just to be clear though, I do not see anyone as attacking you here. They just want to save you pain they have had. You seem cool and worthy of the confidence you place in others. Sorry, if the advice comes off poorly. None of your choices seem out of line.

  19. For clarification: I never felt attacked. None of the advice bothered me! On the contrary, it’s been helpful and consoling.
    But I’m not that young and inexperienced, so I should write posts that don’t read like a drunk barging in on a party where he sort of knows this one guy, then starts to cry and yell at strangers:)
    Just a weird day, all the more reason to take a few steps back, my posts are already getting somewhat …panicky and defensive.

  20. I’m sorry you’re feeling like a troll, TomBcat. Howsabout some babies?

  21. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    TomBcat – it doesn’t matter if one isn’t young and inexperienced; if one hasn’t been subjected to that sort of gaslighting shit before it’s a whole different story. Abusers are very good at that sort of thing, and it is NO reflection on the person they’re doing it to.

    Yes, I said abusers. Because in my view, what this guy did was abusive. He tried to push you into things you didn’t want to do, things he already knew, the second time, you didn’t want to do. He saw how uncomfortable you were and played on that, he blamed you and acted like the diarrhoea turd he is. Seriously, I would say drop him from your life completely. A man with MRA attitudes is no friend in any sense to a woman. He’s already tried to force you into sex. He’s blamed you for not wanting to take part. He’s got all this bullshit about men being dominant and sperm-stealing (funny how Teh Dominant Menz are so easily fooled about that, isn’t it? Wearing a condom is too much for their mighty intellects to think of) and he’s making it pretty bloody obvious he does not like women.

    I think hellkell meant “that’s fun?” when she said “you don’t say” earlier. You’re not doing anything wrong and nobody’s ticking you off. If anything, it’s concern for your happiness and maybe safety. I know you said the guy’s not dangerous but he’s not exactly doing your self esteem any good, is he?

    I’d also be there with the newspaper wrapped around a mace. Actually I’d probably want to pinch some weaponry from the Tower of London, they have some awesome stuff.

  22. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    (that didn’t mean men sperm stealing, it was supposed to read as one of his bullshit ideas)

  23. Okay, I really need to step back, but this got confusing, so to clarify again:
    Those are two different people:
    First One guy who didn’t respect my boundaries and then decided to be an asshole about it,
    Second one Ex from years ago who is somehow getting himself sucked into MRA bullshit. It was funny in a sense that I usually find it hard to imagine the sort of people who take the stuff seriously that’s getting mocked here, and I apologize for that statement. It was thoughtless here and I don’t know what kind of people you have encountered in your life, so that probably was hurtful to some. I didn’t mean to treat his twisted views like some cutesy character flaw, I just didn’t want to get even more attention for this guy, too.
    So, sincere apologies to anyone who felt hurt by that. I’d have been hurt, too, because there’s nothing funny about people who want to threaten not only equality, but basic human rights. I just chose to not take this particular person seriously, because I did for a long time and it destroyed a lot for me.
    I already felt like tiny, weak, victimized yesterday, because No-Boundaries-Guy is not the first I encountered, and I was mad with me for still being unable deal with those assholes.
    I didn’t want to feel like my ex’s victim, too. I hope that explanation makes sense. I didn’t feel attacked, not by hellkell or anyone, I just noticed that I started sounding more and more confusing and contradicting, and hellkells comment was just a nod in the direction of “okay, I’m getting stupid.”

  24. And yes, none of these guys will have any part in my life again.

    Also, Falconer, your babies make me go squeeee!

  25. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    Thanks for the clarification, TomBcat!

    So, two arseholes instead of one? Blech.

    “I just chose to not take this particular person seriously, because I did for a long time and it destroyed a lot for me.”

    That sounds like a really good idea, actually. Diminish him, replace the feeling of him as having power with him as ridiculous. I like it.

    Both these blokes sound like they should be relegated to the Lumber Room of People You Don’t Need. They really should have the equivalent of hard rubbish collections for these guys.

    Internet hugs if you want them!

  26. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    Aaaand you ninjaed me!😀

  27. “And yes, none of these guys will have any part in my life again.”


    “I didn’t want to feel like my ex’s victim, too. I hope that explanation makes sense.”

    Perfect sense to me, but I have a string of terrible ex’s that require compartmentalizing or I get all “arg I fail at life” (with a side dish of how I just prove the MRAs right that some people just “play” victim)

    Also, I’m half drunk and falling asleep, so blame the whiskey for any misunderstandings or confusion, anything that doesn’t make sense is probably Jameson’s fault:)

  28. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    Just don’t go sewing that cover to your pants …

  29. Like he said, no one else ever complained.

    Oh, really? I don’t know whether you picked up on this, but this is a real tell.

    No one else? Ever? I don’t believe this. Don’t believe it if you hear it from anyone ever again – or any version of the same concept. What this means when you put it through the translated-into-non-self-serving-words machine is that he. has. never. listened. to any hints, suggestions, polite or otherwise refusals he’s ever heard before.

    (People like this want to convince themselves that they’re persuasive or seductive or irresistible. Too bad. It might work inside their heads sometimes, but don’t let it work on you. Ever.)

  30. Kitteh — I’m calling it a night in the cover, and going to bed soon. But thanks!

  31. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    Niters, Argenti, everyone! I’m off to watch Time Team.

  32. Historophilia

    TomBcat, I’m glad my mental image made you laugh. Possibly that’s a better thing to associate him with in your head than skeevy boundary pushing?

    Update from the south of France, it is still raining, however since it is the day after Easter all the left over chocolate is half price and I have half price Lindt chocolate bunnies!

  33. Hey, so I’m just going to pile on and agree with folks, but I wanted to take a second to expand something.


    he told me that he wasn’t alright with me saying no just anytime I wanted.

    The red flags, they are a whirling.

    There are no times, none, zero, when it is suddenly not okay for you to say ‘no.’ You can actually be doing the deed and decide to stop, because, y’know, you suddenly don’t feel like it anymore.

    Saying that he doesn’t want to respect your ‘no’ SOMETIMES means he thinks that sometimes what he wants is more important than what you want.

    Totally not okay.

    Cliff had a post that fits side by side with this, on the idea that there’s a ‘point of no return’ when the man ‘just can’t control himself,’ the ‘boner werewolf.’ That’s… here. (thank you, mister Google!)

    Somebody who wants to start eroding your NO, establishing time and places when he won’t listen to them? That’s somebody eroding consent, nibbling at the corners. That’s totally not okay.

  34. @lumi

    So, you mentioned your evo-psych prof and his discussion of the research on women’s attitudes towards casual sex.

    More recent studies have undermined that more than a little bit.

    The short version: the big disconnect in women’s attitudes closely tracks with the dangers related to casual sex. The danger to their well-being, and the danger that a casual sex encounter isn’t likely to end in an orgasm for the woman.

    In situations where the dangers of casual sex were mitigated, and with partners that showed signs of being, um, less than fully self-centered, women showed just as much interest as men in casual sex.

    Simply put, the traditional ‘walk up to a stranger and offer them casual sex’ is a situation that is full of risks for the woman, and reasons BESIDES their relative interest in casual sex to say no.

    And that’s actually pretty frigging obvious. But only dudes did studies about casual sex, and so it never occurred to them.

    So, your professor is flogging bad science that’s been countered by better studies. So, um, yeah. Bad professor!

  35. Reblogged this on Battered Mothers – A Human Rights Issue and commented:
    I can only say Thank you to human beings like Manboobz for staying on type of Human Rights

  36. @tomBcat

    You’re fine. You’re not annoying. There’s nothing wrong with some venting here:) *Offers jedi hugs again*

  37. Been off and of course am now hundreds of comments behind, but this.

    No one else? Ever? I don’t believe this. Don’t believe it if you hear it from anyone ever again – or any version of the same concept. What this means when you put it through the translated-into-non-self-serving-words machine is that he. has. never. listened. to any hints, suggestions, polite or otherwise refusals he’s ever heard before.

    THIS. A bunch. No one else has ever complained is almost always “I have not bothered to listen”.

  38. Thanks for all the answers, I’m gonna try and wrap this up:
    First of all, I feel like a grown up again, yay!
    Second, sadly there’s even more assholes than to, some worse, some not so, life would be nice if we all had just this one and only person in our lives that had been shitty to us.
    Howard, thanks, though I think I’ve read about each and every one of Cliffs posts #fangirling
    Also, the study you talk about, the reasons for not having casual sex are pretty much exactly why I or anyone I know and have talked about it doesn’t want casual sex.
    It’s a little sad, but also nice to see that this isn’t just my problem.
    And on the whole “no one ever complained” – I didn’t believe it. And even if it was true – he says this to tell me I’m wrong, so he doesn’t have to listen. Otherwise he would have accepted that I was the first to complain, not act as if this made my complaints somehow invalid. There’s got to be a first time at some point.

  39. Anyway, thank you all, sorry again it got weird, but those are difficult subjects after all.It’s so easy to get into the wrong mindset then. I’m very glad the conversation took a turn for the better.

  40. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    ::high fives TomBcat::

  41. is there anything substantive that actually addresses the title claim, or is this more like tea time gossip? You know, the kind that makes you chuckle on your way through the day.

    Do feminists simply claim patriarchy when tasked with tallying the contributions to humanity besides their incredible skill to [start] more life. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing if women get a free ride, but it reveals a glaring reality about the nature of gender.

    Women’s usefulness is innate because of their womb. Men’s usefulness is determined by what they actually do to make life easier to live. I posit, any consequences within society is because of this, including mollycoddling women.

    Our advanced technological prowess is the quintessential reason men’s existence is up for discussion. I wonder, if the womb was synthesized by technology, men would discuss why women exist.

  42. Wow. You are the quintessential MRA asshat. And you are gender essentialist to boot! WHOOT!

    By the way, no, women were not getting free rides on the backs of men since the beginning of fucking time. Women have had to work since the freaking beginning of time too. Or do you think all women are upper-class women from the Victorian era?

  43. I’m rather enjoying the ironic lack of self-awareness in Lucid’s choice of nym.

    Sweetie, you’re talking out of your arse. The result is neither lucid nor pretty. Plus you’re a necro-troll. I mean, really? You’ve come to a year-old thread to say that all women contribute to the world is their wombs (how old are you? Are we in Sunday School, talking about wombs, here, rather than uteri?). Nice transphobia, nice erasure of women’s humanity, poppet.

    The fact that you personally don’t see all the hard work, labour and creativity of women doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It just means you wander around in your own little privileged world, blind to any woman doing things that aren’t related to your boner.

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