From the mouths of trolls: Rape is unneccessary if you’ve got “game.”


So my Mighty White of You post — about the demographics of the Men’s Rights subreddit — drew the attention of Obsidian, a longtime Manosphere blogger who has been described by some of his comrades as “the Blackest Man of the Manosphere” (not that this is much of an accomplishment in that lily-white world). He stuck around for some not-terribly productive discussions of race and feminism, pickup artistry, and I can’t remember the rest because I just sort of stopped caring after a while.

But there was one thing he said — a passing remark in a long comment — that stood out to some of the commenters here, and which I thought was revealing enough to warrant highlighting in a post:

I don’t support rape for a very simple reason – because it’s not necessary. A Man with Game doesn’t need to rape anyone.

That … is not a good reason to “not support” rape.

Really, that’s probably the worst reason to “not support” rape besides “I don’t have enough time in my busy schedule to rape anyone today” or “I might muss up my new suit raping someone.”

Do you really need to search for reasons to “not support” rape beyond, you know, the idea that violating other people for your own selfish pleasure is wrong?

PUAs: Even the ones who aren’t directly advocating sexual assault have some pretty fucked up ideas about rape.

About David Futrelle

I run the blog We Hunted the Mammoth, which tracks (and mocks) online misogyny. My writing has appeared in a wide variety of places, including Salon,, the Washington Post, the New York Times Book Review and Money magazine. I like cats.

Posted on June 22, 2013, in feminism, misogyny, MRA, PUA, racism, rape, rape culture and tagged , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 175 Comments.

  1. RE: pecunium

    Please accept this kitten in token of my lulz.

    RE: Argenti

    Hmmm. It means you get to choose whether it’s canon or not. In your case, I expect you’d prefer it to be canon, which means that for you, it is.

    (Basically, my official stance on Biff is that he’s Schrodinger’s Trans Man; whether he’s canonically cis or trans is entirely up to the reader, since 90% of the time, it makes no difference in the story. This is one of the exceptions. For over a decade, I wrote him cis, until a friend of mine mistook him for trans, and then I realized that it pretty much required no change of anything, so why the hell not.)

  2. Tulgey Logger

    I just saw this bit from the other thread:

    “O: Should I value someone’s life more than my own?”

    Yeezus H Christ, does this guy ever stop getting worse?

  3. Considering Biff’s um, response to the topic of sex…but. Oh, that was also AU, ok then. (And really, I’d rather ignore M.D. Doing whatever the fuck she did to him with her zapping skills)

    In any case, I had permission to use her Paypal account…which has $0 until a bank withdraw clears. *impatient*

    26 hours awake, not tired. AAARRRGHH.

  4. If a guy has the means to get the kinds of sexual relationships he wants with Women, his chances of raping them go down considerably.

    This is standard rape apologist bullshit.

    Hint: rapists don’t rape because they want sex and can’t get it. They rape because they want *specifically* to rape.

  5. It does sound like typical manosphere stupidity and ignorance when it comes to rape.

  6. Smart ass question: How many peach pies have you made out of freeze peaches? 1/10/100/I only ever eat peaches warm/Oh no, my freeze peaches!!

    I have some friends with peach trees and they harvested all the peaches and froze them and now they make a cobbler once or twice a week. When I’m there I can’t stop thinking “freeze peach.”

  7. I only read some of his posts so I thought he had *some* misguided ideas but was still open to understanding the views of people who despise all that stuff.

    This seems to be much more fundamental, though. Also, what’s “game” other than “abuse women in ways they might not immediately perceive” anyway? You still seem to be advocating for abuse as a way to get sex.

  8. namegoeshere – exactly. It’s all about how to rape women while staying just outside what the law would recognise as rape. It’s about abuse, control and tormenting people. It’s about sexually expressed hate.

  9. guffaw-ferrets

    LBT: yes! I can suspend my disbelief about a lot of things for the sake of entertainment, but tend to get pissed at stuff like “terrible faked accents of any sort” and “that scene on ‘The L Word’ when Shane sprinkles weed shake straight into brownie batter instead of using canna-butter; we’re supposed to believe that someone in L.A. doesn’t know any better??”

    That being said, I don’t have much claim to Cajun culture since I was raised way up north and speak very little French; also my accent is a weird combo of “Canadian”, “Appalachian Pennsylvanian”, and “Brooklyn”. Whenever I go to New Orleans, people look at me and are like “Qui t’a pres faire, ’tite* ange?” and then get really confused when they hear me talk.

  10. guffaw-ferrets

    Sorry, left out a footnote: that’s a diminutive of “petit/e” and I always forget if it’s spelled “‘tit” or “‘tite”, since the grammatical rules are different from those of continental French. Either way, it sounds like “tee”.

    I can just see some MRA reading that spelled out and being like “TIt? Wait, tight?! This rocks! I can just walk up to a woman and say ‘tit’ or ‘tight’ in front of her name and claim it’s a foreign language lol, +1000 Game Points, I am sure to come off like a super-worldly alpha WHILE planting the Sex Seed in her mind, definitely gonna get laid like this.”

  11. RE: Argenti

    Man, that story is the squickiest thing I’ve ever written in my life. There’s a reason I slapped warnings on that thing. It is sooooo not canon at all. And Biff has more issues than National Geographic.

    Also, you shouldn’t really need a Paypal account, just a bank account. I’ve been sending money through Paypal for years, just using my normal bank account.

    RE: guffaw-ferrets

    Terrible TV accents are awful, and for some unknown reason, the Cajuns seem to have the worst imitators in the country.

  12. LBT — I don’t exactly have one of those either. Welfare gives me my money on a non-Visa/MasterCard card that’s fundamentally useless.

  13. And yeah, other than maybe the age of consent on her plant being lower, it’s weird and not good and all kinds of “consent? What’s consent?”

  14. CassandraSays

    “that scene on ‘The L Word’ when Shane sprinkles weed shake straight into brownie batter instead of using canna-butter

    That sounds…gritty. Which would be an odd texture for a brownie.

  15. RE: Argenti

    Ah, bummer. Yeah, that’s a pain in the ass.

    And in regards to the story: yes, to all of the above. Between M.D. having the teenage thing of believing herself to be adult (she’s not), and me being pretty positive Biff wouldn’t know what to do with consent if it came up and bit him, it hits critical mess right off the bat. Like I said, squickiest thing I ever wrote.

  16. “that scene on ‘The L Word’ when Shane sprinkles weed shake straight into brownie batter instead of using canna-butter

    I really hope this isn’t a common mistake. Yech. X_X That is literally the worst way to make weed brownies ever.

  17. CassandraSays

    Since we’re talking unfortunate baking errors, pro tip! Don’t use straight-up raw matcha as a thing to sprinkle on top of baked goods instead of sugar. Yes, it looks pretty, and it tastes great when baked into things, but in its raw state it’s really bitter and unpleasantly powdery/gritty.

  18. CassandraSays

    I point this out because I was once served a truly tragic cookie (at Samovar in San Francisco) with raw matcha sprinkled on it. It would have been such a good cookie if they’d put the matcha in rather than on it…

  19. Matcha in baked goods? Interesting. What kind of taste does matcha add when it’s in baked goods (like a brownie or cookie or something like that)?

  20. CassandraSays

    Have you ever had green tea cheesecake? It’s awesome. Basically it just adds a green tea flavor. Green tea puffs are awesome too. Is there a Beard Papa in the South Bay?

  21. Green tea cheesecake…I need to try that. And yeah, there are quite a few Beard Papas in the Bay Area (although the one I’ve been most frequently is the one in downtown SF, next to some big park whose name I forgot). I’ve only tried their chocolate and vanilla cream puffs, but I’ll be sure to try the green tea ones next time I go to that place. I think there’s one in Mountain View I can go to. ^_^

  22. CassandraSays

    Yerba Buena? If you can’t get to a Beard Papa then Satura Cakes would also do the green tea cream puffs!

  23. Ah, yes, Yerba Buena. I just love that place. And it looks like there’s a Satura Cakes in Los Altos, which isn’t too far (certainly way closer than SF). Thanks for the pointers!

  24. Cassandra/Aaliyah, Y’all are making me homesick. 🙂

  25. I can’t lie, the first couple of brownie batches we made were all weed sprinkled in batter, before we learned about using oil. We had a good grinder though, so we avoided the grittiness. Of course, we were also kids then, and lived in a city that was very culturally different from LA

  26. I have a killer recipe for green tea cupcakes. They’re vegan, but even non-vegans (like me) love them. I can share if anyone’s interested.

  27. guffaw-ferrets

    I’m not sure if the unfortunate baking mistake is all that common, but am definitely not making fun of anyone who’s made it!

    The episode was just implausible because, not only were said brownies were supposed to be SUPER POTENT (which they wouldn’t be), we were expected to believe that someone was able to eat enough of them to get super wasted *while mistaking them for normal brownies and not noticing anything different about them.*

    I guess it’s like anything else where people who know a lot about a subject have to watch it presented in a way that you know to be false or at least extremely improbable. Which is coincidentally how I felt about ‘The L Word’ in general, to be honest.

  28. guffaw-ferrets

    Along those same lines (listening to someone go on at length about something they completely misunderstand but you know a lot about): having to read MRAs’ opinions about feminism, rape, domestic assault especially partner violence and child abuse, systems of oppressions, basic psychology, biology, or the law. .

  29. CassandraSays

    Ah, the urban myth of the “special” brownies that someone ate a whole tray of without realizing. What did the person end up doing in the version you heard?

    @ emilygoddess

    Are the cupcakes hard to make? Baking and I are not friends in general, but if the recipe is easy I might try it.

  30. I have a killer recipe for green tea cupcakes. They’re vegan, but even non-vegans (like me) love them. I can share if anyone’s interested.

    You know, I’ve never understood why we always end up with the “they’re vegan but non-vegans like them” disclaimer when sharing vegan recipes. I do it all the time myself, but it seems strange. Like vegan food ought to be awful because it’s vegan, and only vegans have the superpowers necessary to eat that.😉

  31. CassandraSays

    Vegan food in general I don’t think needs the disclaimer, but vegan baked goods often have an odd texture ime (and as mentioned in the other thread, it’s not like there aren’t lots of them to choose from where I live).

  32. Vegan baked goods of the non-yeast variety tend to be crumbly because they don’t have eggs to act as a binder, but I think the flavor and texture is usually as good as, or superior to, most non-vegan baked goods.

    Gluten-free varies more. Ones that go for cheapness use rice flour, which has a texture like sand, and are not as good, but if you’re willing to spring for expensive flours like amaranth, buckwheat, soy, and especially the holy grail of gluten-free baking, sorghum, then you have a wide variety of interesting textures and flavors to work with and you may well end up being glad to get away from boring old white flour! (Crumbliness still applies, though.)

  33. I may just be a few years behind. Back in college (6-10 whole years ago), when I first tried vegan baked goods, they tended to be dry and/or flat, and as someone for whom mouthfeel is at least as important as flavor, I was underwhelmed.

    Also, people with limited experience of veg*n foods, will tend to balk if you offer them, say, vegan cupcakes. Some will mock the very idea, or ask if there’s a non-vegan alternative. I was hoping to head off those criticisms by noting that the cupcakes are pleasing even to a palate used to egg-and-dairy baked goods.

  34. Green Tea Cupcakes (from Vegan Cupcakes Take Over The World)

    Line or grease your muffin tins.

    In a large bowl, whisk together:
    ½ C soy yogurt
    2/3 C rice milk
    ¼ t vanilla extract
    1/3 C canola oil
    ½ t almond extract

    Beat well to blend in yogurt.

    Sift in:
    1 ¼ C flour
    1 t baking powder
    ¼ t baking soda
    3-4 t matcha powder
    ¼ t salt
    ¾ C sugar

    Beat a little longer to break up any large lumps.
    Fill liners 2/3 full and bake 20 min.

    Green Tea Glaze
    With a fork, beat 2 T margarine to a fluff.
    Mix in 1 C confectioners’ sugar and 1/8 to ¼ t matcha powder to form a crumbly texture.
    Slowly beat in 1 T rice milk, ¼ t almond extract, and a drop of vanilla extract. If icing is too thick, pour in an additional teaspoon of rice milk. (I added probably 2 or 3 more teaspoons of rice milk.)

  35. It depends on the baked good, too. If you’re making cookies, you just need to use margarine and eliminate the egg; easy peasy. If you’re making a cake with milk, butter, and several eggs, it gets more complicated.

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