Pickup Artist: Marrying a woman over 25 is like paying double for nearly expired milk

I like my women like I like my milk: in close proximity to cats.

I like my women like I like my milk: In close proximity to cats.

Red Pill ideology isn’t just hateful and misogynistic; it’s also a remarkably bleak way to look at the world, even for the men who supposedly benefit the most from taking “the red pill” — that is, the allegedly smooth players who boast about bedding so many women on “game” blogs.

Take, for example, what you might call the “spoiled milk” theory of marriage that’s sometimes trotted out on these blogs.

Since women reach their prime young, the theory goes, then rapidly lose their looks and their value after “hitting the wall” at the age or 25 or 30, it only makes sense to marry a woman when she’s young — so you get to have sex with her before she gets all old and hideous.

If you marry her later, this means that someone else has had her at her best — and you haven’t!

As the blogger at LaidNYC argues in a post titled “Don’t Marry Any Woman Older Than 25,”

If you meet your wife when she’s older than around 23 or 24:

You are eating someone else’s cold leftovers, then doing their dishes.

You are showing up to a party after everyone has left and cleaning up after them.

You are getting into a taxi and paying the fare of the person who got out before you.

You are taking the nearly expired milk to the grocery store counter and offering to pay double for it.

He goes on in this fashion for some time.

You are paying for someone’s credit card bill full of reckless spending and partying that you never got to enjoy. …

You are trying to unclog somebody else’s clogged toilet.

Ok, now that last one didn’t even make sense.

Anyway, after running out of metaphors, LaidNYC gets to his point:

A girl who refuses to get married young is offering a raw deal.  She is vastly overvaluing her product, and undervaluing your time and money.

Marriage only makes sense for a man when a girl’s prime years of beauty and fertility are upfront payment for a lifetime of loving masculine support.  

LaidNYC goes on to suggest that women who are too picky when they’re young will end up regretting it later:

Is it any wonder, then, that as females are delaying marriage longer, they are finding less willing men?

Youthful arrogance is the yellow brick road to spinsterhood.

But I want to go back to that previous bit:

Marriage only makes sense for a man when a girl’s prime years of beauty and fertility are upfront payment for a lifetime of loving masculine support.  

Can you imagine a more depressing way to look at marriage? If you’re so twisted by your misogyny that you can’t see value in your wife after she hits the age of 30 or so, and stick with her only out of a sense of obligation because she fucked you when she was 25, well, dude, you deserve to be miserable. And I can only hope your wife leaves you for someone who can appreciate her in the here and now.

Misogynistic assholes are at least as good at making themselves miserable as they are at making things shitty for other people.

About David Futrelle

I run the blog We Hunted the Mammoth, which tracks (and mocks) online misogyny. My writing has appeared in a wide variety of places, including Salon, Time.com, the Washington Post, the New York Times Book Review and Money magazine. I like cats.

Posted on August 6, 2013, in block that metaphor, boner rage, entitled babies, evil old ladies, evil sexy ladies, female beep boop, irony alert, kitties, laidnyc, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, PUA, red pill and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 649 Comments.

  1. EJ (The Other One)

    For the sake of lurkers’ reading pleasure, I’m actually going to stop being an asshole and dissect Kevin’s post above. This may take a while and may end up being twice the length of the bible. Be warned.

  2. So feminists should back off becuse otherwise we’ll lose Christianity and thus be invaded by Islamic immigrants. And that would be bad.

    But, you want to get married in Iran or Saudi Arabia.

    …You know, I think your manly Apollonian logic is just too much for my delicate lady brain. Allow me to place this pancake on your head. It’s a traditional sign of respect where I come from.

  3. Looking forward to your reply, EJ. May the Blockquote Mammoth be merciful.

  4. It never fails. The minute a regular commenter identifies himself as a man, a troll will decide to only engage with him respectfully. Every time we have a troll this happens. It’s cute that Kevin thinks we’re all so devastated that he won’t talk to us.

  5. EJ (The Other One)

    EJ, first I want to take this opportunity to publicly show my respect for You, because many already lost my respect for them by show their true colors. By using every opportunity to try to offend me, they showed how rude they are and failed to address my arguments with valid counter arguments. Some brought up my grammar and spelling, others argued believing that their feeling are valid arguments. One person put up a weird picture of some sort, but with all that they showed that they are hollow. They have nothing to back up their arguments. On the other hand, your massage was not offensive. That is good thing, because out of all, you will get my attention and I will place as much time as I possibly have to better explain my position.

    Thank you, Strawman Hypothetical Of Kevin Who Has Better Manners And So Doesn’t Demand That Women Not Talk To Him (henceforth SHOKWHBMASDDTWNTTH). May I, in turn, say how nice your hair looks today. I’m not going to critique your spelling or language use here; people who aren’t entirely confident with writing skills can still have their ideas taken seriously, after all. I’m going to take issue with your ideas.

    Economists have a saying, “there is no free lunch”. That means that everything has a price, and when I say everything, that includes their treatment of you. Do you know whats the price? Its for you to be on their side and support them during the elections. Nobody will treat you nice, unless they had something more to gain from that relationship.

    Economists have another saying: “Free trade enriches all parties.” A group in which people cooperate normally results in each person getting more benefit from the cooperation than it costs them. A good example of this may be the arrangement between myself and my former flatmate: I cooked, he did the ironing, and we hired a cleaner. I like cooking but loathe ironing; he disliked cooking but didn’t mind ironing; and both of us hated vaccuuming but could afford to pay for a cleaner. She, in turn, gets an income from this and is better off too. This is the foundation on which the capitalist system is built.

    Yes, there is no such thing as a free lunch. In the case of this website, it costs me slightly more energy to think before I type, and to avoid mansplaining, and to occasionally stay the hell out of matters that I want to jump into but know nothing about. However, by taking this extra energy and time to be considerate, it makes the community a nicer place, which results in other people being nice back to me; and the amount I benefit from that niceness is larger than it costs me.

    There’s no such thing as a free lunch, but there is such a thing as a really good deal.

    Incidentally, I tend to vote for lefty parties anyway, because I’m a lefty. If anything, most of my female friends are less lefty than I am.

    Only people that really care for you are you family members, and even they are not 100% reliable, because shit can happen and sometimes it does. I advise you to have faith in your family because they are your most reliable source for assistance. You must be very careful with the false sense of security you get from nice people, because its very unreliable channel of assistance if you were to hit rock bottom. Be aware who your true friends are, otherwise it will cost you both time and money.

    Dear SHOKWHBMASDDTWNTTH, let me give you a hug. You sound like you’ve gone through some shit and now have difficulty trusting people. My entire sympathies.

    That said, I feel that the notion of a “true friend” is a misleading one. In my experience many people are very willing to be friends to a certain level of intimacy, but reject anything more intimate than that; many other people have a minimum level of intimacy required. Some of us are happy with friends that we see once a month. Others would prefer a small group of close friends.

    However, the notion that all friends have to be utterly loyal and extremely willing to help you with whatever’s happening otherwise they’re not worth having at all, is one which strikes me as unhealthy. If nothing else it places an enormous potential responsibility on each of those people. A person can balk at that level of responsibility but still be someone who’s really fun to hang out with or someone who can teach you things and make you think.

    If you have difficulty trusting people, then engaging at a deliberately lower intimacy level might be really refreshing. Have coffee-shop friends or board-games friends. Don’t expect anything more from them than that, and you don’t have to invite them in any closer either. The worry of betrayal becomes less when you realise that you have less to fear from it too. It’s a difficult process but, I think, a healthier one.

    As for male spaces not being nice, they were never meant to be. Male spaces are breeding ground for young men to learn to endure adversity. If young men were never challenged, they will never grow. No pain, no gain. Only through hardship and struggle we can realize how much power do we really have. Everything has limits and anything dangerous must only be done on advice of qualified experts of that specific field.

    I’m not certain that I agree.

    “No pain no gain” is a term that comes from the bodybuilding world, where it probably is true. More generally, the attitude that one must work hard to improve oneself is definitely a positive one. However, it’s not true in a wider context: many things, like the internet or the Green Revolution, made the world a massively better place without any immense hardships going alongside it.

    More importantly, it’s not true the other way around. Not all pain is gain. Some pain is just pain. In particular, if I start being an asshole to people around me, it generally doesn’t make them stronger in any measurable way: it just makes them unhappy and spreads misery around, making them be assholes in turn and poisoning a social space until it makes the lives of those involved in it worse.

    A lot of male spaces are, sadly, like this. My experience is that the problem is that we as men are socialised to see being an asshole as the natural right of those with high social status, and so our spaces will be filled with constant negative energy as people seek to exploit this privilege or to test whether they have it. These also tend to be the least productive spaces: the professional teams I’ve worked in where we all got on and had fun and respected one another were vastly more productive than the teams that were full of macho posturing and negative energy.

    EJ, you have been treated with such nice treatment because you do not challenge them, and you are supportive of them politically. If you criticized the liberal ideology with any one of them, they will tear you apart. I have been slandered and accused of everything under the sun, because I have my own beliefs which does not match with theirs.

    They’ve been nice to me because I’ve been nice to them. Yes. This is true. I’ve said so above, and I’m glad you agree.

    As for criticising the liberal ideology: Not every behaviour is suitable for every space. If I’m at a pool and I splash someone, they’ll laugh and splash me back. If I’m at a big work meeting and we’re all in silk ties and wool suits, then splashing water on people will not get many laughs. Similarly, when you enter a space and it’s not a place where intense political discussion of a particular type is welcome, go elsewhere.

    If you want to talk right-wing politics, Chris Ladd’s blog is an excellent place to do it. They’re smart people there too. If you want to talk left-wing politics, Ta-Nehisi Coates’s blog might be a good fit. On the other hand, if you’re looking to have a fight with someone of a wildly different ideology to your own, ask yourself: Does this person want to have a fight with me? If not, don’t do it.

    I’m guessing that last point is why you’ve found yourself having such a hostile reception in so many places. Dear SHOKWHBMASDDTWNTTH, remember that social spaces (including online ones) are like swiss army knife parts: decide what you’re looking for, and then go there.

    What more can I expect of incompetent generation who has been nagging ever since their conception? Unlike their previous generation they have been born into the computer era, electric car, smartphone, modern medical advancements but they still remain ungrateful.

    Whats worse is that they will do anything to reduce productivity of the American business and will not stop until they destroy their own country. These people are crazy. Our economy should not be based on passing lattes back and forth (loll). We need exports and tourism, so we can have manufacturing jobs and to have those previous two we need competitive tax environment to attract corporations so our country could compete on International level. We are getting our behinds handed to us by second and third world countries at the moment thanks to the tax environment created by democrats. We are neck deep in debt, as a matter of fact we are so deep in debt, that we had to fold our space program back in 2011. Feminists rarely offer solutions, mostly make demands as if everybody else are below them in terms of social class.

    I think you’re confusing two different factors: economic activity and economic growth.

    Economic activity – “passing lattes back and forth” – requires mass employment, and preferably mass employment with wages high enough for consumption of goods. This is what we have in the Western world. However, mass employment requires jobs which humans can do better than computers or robots or other machines. In the past it was agriculture; then we moved to industry and mining; and then to clerical and data work. However, all these fields have become very automated, meaning that humans have ended up working in jobs where a human touch is more important than precision and speed.

    However, in these fields, the western world still does fantastically well. The British steel industry produces more steel now than it did in the heights of the Victorian era, despite requiring a tiny fraction of the workforce. The chemical industry makes vastly more medicines, plastics, etc than it did at any point beforehand. Big Data is growing enormously and yet employs far fewer people than the archiving industry did back when everything was on paper. Agriculture, most of all, produces ten times as much food as it did in 1900 with less than a tenth as much of a workforce. Just because the humans have moved on to do other work doesn’t mean that we don’t still produce things in the industries we’ve left behind.

    As for the second thing you mention, economic growth, that’s a very different thing. Economic growth is based on every year being better than the previous one, and that’s normally easier when the previous year was awful. As a result, it’s natural for economic growth to be larger in places where they’re playing catch-up. Eventually they’ll draw level with the rest of us and will move on to passing lattes back and forth and obsessing over their new iPhones like the first world does.

    This isn’t the decline of the west. This is the triumph of the third world. The two aren’t the same thing at all unless you believe that wealth is meaningless without some poor people to contrast it against.

    Now here is the scary part. Feminists that are leading American politics have the same future as the European Union has. Can u see similarities in the way EU people began rejecting Catholicism and the way American feminists are rejecting Christianity? Can you see the similarities in immigration patterns? Do you know whats coming to both countries in few generations? Islam. Thats right, feminist are opening the road to Islam by rejecting Christianity. Feminists think Christianity is repressive? Wait till they get the taste of Islam. Unlike feminists I don’t ask you to believe me, I only ask that you independently check the religious and demographic statistics of EU and the US. Better yet, check Canada Australia UK and New Zealand while you are at it.
    My friend, they have no idea, what kind of conservatism will Islam require of their grand grandchildren. They have no clue… Im not Nostradamus, but unlike feminists I have enough foresight to see the consequences of liberal ideologies spreading in America.

    Islam as a religion is not bad, but Islam is also political doctrine which many people don’t know and as political doctrine it is extremely dangerous to USA. Here is why, in Islam the laws have already been selected by God, so democracy will cease to exists and Islam’s God’s laws will take effect. Quran could be the Constitution of your grand grand children.

    As an EU national who’s rejected Christianity himself (albeit Calvinism rather than Catholicism) I find your supposition puzzling. Suppose Islam does spread in Europe. So what? Most European Muslims are extremely decent folks; when you control for poverty and education they tend to be less criminal, more aspirational and more socially-minded than their white neighbours. That isn’t a bad thing.

    Furthermore, Islam isn’t a disease. It doesn’t spread like paint in Splatoon. In a free society, people become Muslims because they want to be Muslims: because being a Muslim makes more sense to them than being a Christian or a Hindu or a Neopagan, or because their parents raised them to be a Muslim and they find comfort in that.

    Over a long period, what we’ll see is that the number of Christians in any society will drop to the number of people who find that Christianity works for them, and the number of Muslims will rise to the number of people who find that Islam works for them. In other words, religious pluralism means that religions compete like products in a market, and like most markets this results in the end user getting a better product than they would otherwise.

    Surely this is what America is all about?

    Now ask yourself.

    Do I want that?

    Do I personally want it? Well, I’m a committed atheist. You will find few atheists more hardline than me. However, I also trust me (not yet born) grandchildren. I should ask myself, what do they want? I’ll have to wait and see. If they want to be Muslims, I hope they’re Muslims. If they want to be Christian, I hope they’re Christian. Whatever works for them is what I want for them.

    Squabbles over religion are petty anyway. Humanity has bigger issues. The stars are waiting.

  6. EJ (The Other One)

    Dammit, blockquote mammoth! Have you no shame? Have you, at long last, no shame?

  7. @EJ(The Other One)
    The thread about “male spaces” was kinda interesting in the way it progressed.

    Him: “We need to unite to just survive, otherwise we will have no future to look forward to. Why are you so hateful towards men.”

    You: “I’m a man and nobody’s been hateful to me. In fact, the people here are far nicer than the people in many entirely male spaces are.”

    Him: As for male spaces not being nice, they were never meant to be. Male spaces are breeding ground for young men to learn to endure adversity.

    He starts out admonishing you for being mean to guys… Then suddenly proclaims guys are supposed to be mean to each other to teach them about hardships. So men are supposed to unite and not be hateful, but must be mean to teach to endure adversity?

  8. EJ (The Other One)

    I have a certain amount of sympathy towards him for that. He doesn’t know what he wants, he just wants *not this* so hard that he’s willing to argue in favour of anything as long as it isn’t *this*. It’s a very primal expression of anguish, and one which one often experiences just before an epiphany. I’ve felt the same way in the past when beginning to break away from a harmful mindset that I’ve held: the first step is becoming aware of the pain that you’ve been denying.

    Hopefully he’ll realise that what he’s reacting so strongly to isn’t women so much as internalised toxic masculinity. If he reaches that point then he can seek out sources to help him with the healing process.

  9. I read him as saying that women are supposed to be nice, men are supposed to be assholes. He just likes toxic masculinity.

  10. EJ (The Other One)


    That’s a more likely reading. I was probably being too optimistic.

  11. I never apologize for writing or speaking the truth.

    Indeed, it would be out of line to expect you to apologize for something you never did.

  12. @WWTH

    It never fails. The minute a regular commenter identifies himself as a man, a troll will decide to only engage with him respectfully. Every time we have a troll this happens. It’s cute that Kevin thinks we’re all so devastated that he won’t talk to us.

    It’s a regular pattern, isn’t it? I think we should all change our handles to “AlphaThunderChadBroThrust” and confuse the hell out of these trolls. At least then they couldn’t play the “I ONLY TALK TO PENISES” card in order to weasel out of engaging in rational debate.

    None of these trolls ever realize how cowardly and insecure it makes them look when they’re unable to parry even the mildest counterpoints from women. They swagger in here saying “I’m so smart, I’m more rational, I can logic” but then, faced with actually having to demonstrate it, they crumble. How superior can you really be if you have to resort to artificial boundaries, mobile goalposts, cheat codes, and Calvinball rules to keep up the illusion?

    Without having the authority to grant themselves authority

    And yet, men have the authority to grant themselves authority? Because they’re men?

    Are circles also circular?

  13. Catalpa | September 17, 2015 at 10:55 am

    I never apologize for writing or speaking the truth.

    Indeed, it would be out of line to expect you to apologize for something you never did.

    Kevin’s going to want this link.

  14. I need to work less, so I can lurk more, because I missed Kevin!

    Ironically, I know a lot of super nice and not at all jerkish Kevins. Yet, even for those Kevins, since I am a massive dork, my mental image when I hear Kevin is still…

  15. Scented Fucking Hard Chairs

    And the “MRAs who aren’t also literal Nazis” counter remains at zero.

  16. I am always bemused by dudes on the internet who hate women, who stroll into a blog that revolved around talking about dudes on the internet who hate women, and then say, “HA, I am a dude on the internet who hates women!” as if that’s supposed to sting or be even remotely surprising.

  17. I don’t know what’s funnier, the unashamed admittion that he considers women ‘property’ or the blatant sexism in giving respect only to EJ’s post where EJ ‘just happens’ to mention his membership to the sausage club.

    Also, it’s really telling that his definition of ‘male space’ is ‘a place where young men emotionally beat each other up in order to assert their masculinity. I mean, it’s not wrong, it’s just quite interesting that he advocates for this as if it’s a good thing.

  18. Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)

    In fact, Jackie, our guest seems puzzled by the use of Dragon Age image macros to communicate. Would you be so good as to give him a an elegant selection of them to help him familiarise himself with their use?

    With pleasure.


    (The last one is just DA inspired but I love it too much.)

  19. Kootiepatra | September 17, 2015 at 2:31 pm
    I am always bemused by dudes on the internet who hate women, who stroll into a blog that revolved around talking about dudes on the internet who hate women, and then say, “HA, I am a dude on the internet who hates women!” as if that’s supposed to sting or be even remotely surprising.

    The reaction’s always the same on our behalf as well: “Yes, thank you for proving my point sir, here’s some mockery, run along now.”

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