Men’s Rights Jeopardy: I’ll take “Kill the B*tch” for two dozen upvotes, Alex.

MRAs: Perpetually furious

MRAs: Perpetually furious

So over on the Men’s Rights subreddit, a fella named dzogen came by to vent about his unfair divorce.

Seems his “freeloader and loser” of an ex-wife — a former drug addict — sits around the house eating bon bons while happily collecting $2500 a month in child support for the five year old kid they had together. Also, she treats him with disrespect. “Meanwhile,” the poor fella wrote, for an added dose of pathos, “I have to survive on PB&J.”


Dzogen ended his post with a wish, and a bit of advice for the rest of the guys reading his tale of woe:

I can only hope karma will get her in the end as I have no options to address the fact that legally men have to bend over and take it by their ex’s, legally sanctioned by anti-success, anti-male laws.

My moral of story: Don’t ever get married. It’s a bad deal for men.

Naturally, the helpful fellas of the Men’s Rights subreddit stepped in with some suggestions for how poor Dzogen could improve his sad life. Naturally, there were those who suggested that he (and the other men who shared their own stories of divorce gone wrong) flee the country “and leave her worthless ass high and dry.”(Just load up the comments there and do a find on the page for the word “leave” to find many more.)

But there were others with more, erm, direct suggestions. Like Justin here:

Justinw303 12 points 1 day ago (14|2)  Honestly, if I were you, I'd kill her. No joke.

Huh. A dozen upvotes for a literal call for murder.

And then there was this exchange, in which a comment advocating murder received not one but two dozen upvotes, and those who criticized it got downvotes:

cleetdog101 24 points 14 hours ago (41|17)  Whats her drug of choice? If its coke, smack or crank, you could always look to spike her fix. Not that difficult - Next thing you know - you have the kid and an extra $2,500 a month.      permalink     source     parent     save     give gold     hide child comments  [–]Redundantgaming 0 points 3 hours ago (1|1)  No half measures. Only full measures.      permalink     source     save     parent     give gold  [–]fuckingidiotjunky -2 points 12 hours ago (6|8)  I can't believe this is upvoted      permalink     source     save     parent     give gold  [–]thegreatbeyond50 4 points 11 hours ago (9|5)  There's not alot of things that would drive me to want to murder someone. Completely destroying my life would be one of them.      permalink     source     save     parent     give gold  [–]Mythandros -3 points 10 hours ago (9|12)  That's pretty dark, dude. Resorting to murder? Even implied as a joke, that's just in bad taste.  Are you sure you belong here? Because I'm not sure that you do. Please leave, I don't want people like you, who encourage the most deplorable of acts posting on a board that is supposed to be about positive change and support to those who need it.  You taint /r/mensrights by being here.      permalink     source     save     parent     give gold  [–]lIllIlIIlIlI 5 points 10 hours ago (11|6)  Who died and made you king of morality?

This particular exchange has since been deleted by Reddit admins or the subreddit’s mods.

But numerous other calls for murder remain up as of this writing, including Justin’s comment above, and this one from Kappies10:

Kappies10 7 points 1 day ago (12|5)  I'm sorry mate but to be honest if that ever happend to me I would literally execute that cunt, I rather live in prison than barely live at all... :/

This one from Pecanpig:

Pecanpig 1 point 7 hours ago (1|0)  At that point I have to ask, why not kill her?

This one from the cheerily named HoneyPuffBear:

HoneyPuffBear 2 points 22 hours ago (2|0)  And not to go there, but I am going there. She is a nailhead you most likely got a hammer, be creative

This delicately worded suggestion from eloquentlnemesis:

eloquentnemesis 1 point 4 hours ago (1|0)  If you have no legal option, can you live with what is happening now for the rest of your life? No? Then find an option that doesn't involve the law.

Oh, and this one from Skyrimnewb, although it isn’t literally a call for murder:

SkyrimNewb 4 points 17 hours ago (4|0)  Im not advocating murder, but I'd definitely understand.

The Men’s Rights subreddit: A place good men in trouble men with fake stories can turn to for help suggestions to kill the bitch.

Thanks to the good folks of the Against Men’s Rights subreddit for pointing me to this thread and most of the terrible quotes here.

About David Futrelle

I run the blog We Hunted the Mammoth, which tracks (and mocks) online misogyny. My writing has appeared in a wide variety of places, including Salon,, the Washington Post, the New York Times Book Review and Money magazine. I like cats.

Posted on October 12, 2013, in divorce, dozens of upvotes, evil sexy ladies, evil single moms, evil women, lazy women eating bon bons, mantrum, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, not-quite-explicit threats, oppressed men, reddit, shit that never happened, the c-word, threats and tagged , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 330 Comments.

  1. Oh, that comment. Got it.

  2. David, I have no idea at all what points that cartoon is supposed to be making. I’m at an utter loss for guesses.

  3. Luckily, I’m home sick so I can safely look at NSFW cartoons…

    Here is what I think is happening in that cartoon.

    Old woman, pathetically slathers herself with face cream to compete with nubile teenagers.
    Meanwhile, in the house across the way, a teenaged girl is Skyping with someone of unknown age, presumably male, and offering him another look. Next frame is her naked torso. Then she says she has big boobs for a 14-year-old. The old woman hears this, and screams that her neighbor is a pedophile.

    I’m … not sure why this is supposed to be funny. The old woman would probably know if her neighbor with the window right next to her bathroom is an adult or a teenager himself; the fact that she screams that he’s a pedophile probably means he is a creepy adult egging on a 14-year-old girl to flash him online.

  4. p.s. I don’t think the teenager is in the window; I think she is appearing on a computer screen in the window, in case that isn’t clear.

  5. Thanks for looking at that so the rest of us don’t have to, cloudiah.

    Also, as someone who did have big boobs when she was 14, trust me when I say that the comments pointing this out were always coming in my direction from creepy older men, rather than the other way around.

  6. Yeah, the border around her is titled so I think that’s supposed to be a monitor. Since that border is the same color as the window panes I thought at first she was standing in the window herself. But now I get that the woman is yelling at the guy looking at the teenager on the computer. What I still don’t get . . . this is a genius (or even non-genius) critique of feminism how? She seems to be right about her neighbor being a pedophile . . .?

  7. grumpycatisagirl

    that should be tilted, not titled.

  8. I’m guessing the point is supposed to be “ur just jelus, lol”. Nope, guys, sorry – it’s called empathy. Older women remember how horrible it was being creeped on by pedos when we were teenagers, so when we see it happening we feel sympathy and the urge to protect the child it’s happening to.

    I realize that “empathy”, “sympathy”, and “protect children from harm” are alien concepts to you.

  9. grumpycatisagirl

    For those who don’t want to look directly at it, the text underneath the cartoon is below. I find it interesting that it talks about how brilliant the cartoon is without saying even one word about the cartoon’s actual content or how it shows “multiple feminist issues” (it does?)

    I was going to try to write some extended commentary on this but this one picture criticizes several aspects of feminism, and this cartoon is able to communicate what it would take me a long time to write much more quickly. This cartoon proves that a picture truly is worth a thousand words.

    I also like how this cartoon shows how multiple feminist issues are connected to each other. I have noticed more and more people saying “there’s nothing wrong with feminism except for X”. If you just got rid of that X, these people believe that opposition to feminism would just disappear. (Conveniently, that X typically is something that person doesn’t personally like about feminism.) In reality, feminist issues have a web of connections to each other so you can’t get rid of just one part of feminism. (This web of connections even connects to things not typically considered feminist because as Fidelbogen says, “feminism has fuzzy borders”.) If you are able to get rid of one aspect of feminism, such as abortion, then you end up with conservative female supremacism or traditionalist conservative feminism. If you are able to get rid of another single feminist issue then you end up with nazbol misandry or some other form of misandry.

  10. Is a nazbol a female nazgul?

  11. Agreed with cloudiah’s interpretation, and adding I think that it’s supposed to be a critique in that it’s “pointing out” that “feminists” are trying to look young, while condemning men who are into young girls? Or something? It’s basically calling “feminists” hypocritical for wanting to look young and then criticising men who like young girls.

    Which makes no sense because being young =/= being a young child. And liking young girls is gross no matter who you are if you’re an adult.

  12. “Nazbol” is apparently short for National Bolshevik.

  13. I wonder if there’s any group of angry reactionaries in the US who aren’t obsessed with communism, and linking everything they dislike to communism.

  14. There are two more EWME cartoons on that front page. One is something about the EU and feminists changing the rules whenever they’re losing; the other is proving that feminists are the ones who slut-shame. Weird shit.

  15. Argenti, haha, yes, pretty much that! My sis and I literally tell each other that when either of us asks what we’re typing so furiously for, it reminds us we’re awesome and is just deprecating enough that we’ll stop a moment to remember these people are disgusting and we shouldn’t get so invested.

  16. because as Fidelbogen says

    I missed this. LOL at anyone who listens to that person, since they really don’t make much sense at the best of times.

  17. Paul E. is very, very mad that people (including David) were talking about AVfM in unflattering ways over on Ally Fogg’s blog, so mad that he re-posted that “Run the Bitch Down” article just so that he could make sarcastic remarks about the intelligence of Fogg and his readers, all while safely nestled in the loving embrace of his personal toadies.

  18. “Like Fidelbogen says” is kind of like “like the Chick tract says”.

  19. d’aww, poor… nope, can’t even fake sympathy for P.E.

    I need to read through the rest of that thread, I think I’m around comment 100.

  20. Okay, I read that comic, and the primary thrust is, indeed, the notion that feminists are just old women who are trying to make men ashamed of their ‘natural desires’ for 14-year-old girls, who are totally capable of consenting to sexual activity. This is presumably because they want to snag the Alpha Male for themselves for that golden sperm so they can get child support. So yeah, pretty much another damned sex-predator apologia, with a kicker of ageism.

    Worth noting–we can’t see the male neighbor watching the cam, because that would highlight just how skeevy his behavior is (even though I doubt the artist would be able to properly portray the age-difference in a meaningful fashion).


    “When Fidelbogen talks, douchebags listen.”

  21. Face cream = wanting to compete with 14 year olds?

    Um, who would want to compete for the sort of man who lusts after 14 year olds? Even if I weren’t single-target, pedophiles are not attractive to me, y’know? And face cream = moisturising, and oddly enough, I use moisturiser without any desire to compete with anyone for any human being.

    MRAs: with study and dedication they could learn to be morons.

  22. If I don’t use moisturizer my skin gets dry, which is uncomfortable. I don’t want it to make me look like I’m 14, I want it to make my skin feel good.

    (Also, no offense meant to our teenage readers, but when I think of 14 year olds I think acne and braces and awkwardness, not “wow they’re so perfect, I wish I looked like that”.)

  23. All women are monoliths who want the same thing kitteh, have you learned nothing from the dark enlightenment??

    I think negative enlightenment is a better term, it’s appropriately similar but describes it much better.

  24. I rarely ever put any kind of cream or moisturizer on my face. Does that mean I’m not really a feminist?

  25. I think it means you don’t have dry skin, which I’m sure is misandry, somehow.

  26. Ah, I didn’t realize that was supposed to be an image of a girl on a computer screen. Now it makes sense.

    Wonderful to see MRAs defending child porn.

  27. Wonderful to see MRAs defending child porn.

    Do they ever not? Unless it’s their own kids in which case those girls need to be locked in the basement and never go outside! And if anything happens it was prolly their fault anyway.

  28. Pedophilia: Officially just like circumcision for medical or cultural reasons.(?!???)

  29. The skin cream she is using reads “prepared from the foreskin fibroblasts of newborn babies.” So, he is trying to say the older woman using skin cream is a hypocrite for using a product made from foreskins? That she’s worse than the pedophile next door (seems like he’s excusing the pedophilia; sets it up to seem like the 14 year old is willfully agreeing to the act; and she looks “more mature” than her age). This is pretty disgusting.

  30. oh, I didn’t see the skin cream jar said that. well, I still say WTF.

  31. Where do you even get foreskin face cream??? That… What??

  32. It’s pretty difficult to say that the comic makes the case for feminist hypocrisy when there’s no indication that the woman in the comic is a feminist and when MRAs demonstrably do care more about circumcision than about adult men exploiting girls.

  33. One brand of skin cream does use fibroblasts (cells found in connective tissue) from foreskins. They are taken from foreskins because, since male circumcision is still common, they’re a handy source. These same fibroblasts are also used to grow new skin for burn victims, and for other research purposes.

    People aren’t circumcising their babies to sell the foreskins for profit; people are circumcising their babies and then the hospital is selling the foreskins.


  34. How many face creams would even use them? The article mentions SkinMedica, which is outrageously expensive; I’m guessing your run-of-the-mill creams wouldn’t use such ingredients. (I hope not, ‘cos eww.)

    I much prefer the creams that use dudebro tears, anyway.

  35. Okay, so I opted to jump down the rabbit hole again, and yes, there is an actual use of foreskin fibroblasts to make skin cream (and other products, including skin-grafts for burn patients). Specifically, the foreskins are treated to grow skin grafts. This creates human growth hormones as a by-product. These are then used (sans actual skin cells) as an ingredient in beauty products.

    Article for those interested:

    Apparently, one brand of this stuff got praised by Oprah, so, you know, black woman talking about something MUST be evil, right? (The cream they’re protesting here? All the cultures are derived from a single foreskin that’s over twenty years old. So the notion that they’re somehow perpetuating the circumcision market is… a bit daft, at best.)

  36. I knew I shoulda checked for ninjas. Well done, Cloudiah.

  37. The cream they’re protesting here? All the cultures are derived from a single foreskin that’s over twenty years old.

    Tell ’em that and they’ll be screaming that a twenty-year-old man was circumcised for the purpose.

  38. But…why would foreskin cream make you a pedophile? Are they suggesting that the woman is getting sexual pleasure from the knowledge that her moisturizer was made from baby penis byproducts? Admittedly that would be pretty messed up…

  39. I realize it’s rude to ask for someone’s monthly income, but to make his case this guy really needs to include it so that we can tell if he’s being treated unfairly.

    Even at the highest % a judge tends to order (40%), he would be coming away with almost $4000 a month for himself. That’s almost $47,000 a year. It’s not wealthy, but it’s not exactly poverty. It’s around three times the amount the average person living on minimum wage makes. He’s not gonna be driving around in the back of limos throwing money at passersby, but it’s pretty manageable if you do it right WITHOUT resorting to PB&J.

    I’m just so grossed out by this idea that child support is so unreasonable. It’s your child ffs. You really don’t care if your child is starving because it means you can’t afford a sweet, pimped out bachelor pad? Get your priorities straight.

  40. Ok, my PB&J period? I was getting $444 monthly from unemployment, with $300 rent. And when I could get to a proper grocery store, eating proper food. Now, I’m single, besides the fish, and besides a need for internet and a habit of collecting clutter, I could go spartan, but yeah, less than $150 a month to survive on.

    My sympathies, he does not have them.

  41. Oh and that’s why my psych being all “but SSI only pays $600!” pisses me off. I did that without food stamps (my living quarters weren’t exactly legal), I’m getting nearly $200 a month in food stamps, that plus SSI would be rich by my standards. (And this folks is why I know that mango juice covers the bite of cheap vodka!)

  42. It’s funny to me that the redditors reading his coolstory didn’t see the amount of child support he claims to pay and immediately think “holy shit, he must make a ton of money’. $2600/month??

    Methinks he perhaps didn’t think his coolstory all the way through.

  43. Redditors can be really gullible when it’s convenient.

  44. Maybe if women weren’t allowed to enslave men this wouldn’t be a problem. I’m surprised it doesn’t actually happen more often.

  45. mildlymagnificent

    “Allowed” to “enslave” men,

    This is a joke comment. Right?

  46. Well, of course, it’s not natural – men are the only natural enslavers /sarcasm

  47. Surprised men don’t kill women more often, or joke about it more often? Cuz there are plenty of jokes and a third of murdered women where killed by current/former male partners…

    So um, no, not funny.

  48. I think somebody doesn’t understand what enslave means…
    (Hint: having a child, then being expected to support that child? That isn’t it.)

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