Amanda Marcotte takes down Sunshine Mary; Mary digs her hole deeper


So Amanda Marcotte has some thoughts on Sunshine Mary’s post about feminism allegedly reducing women to nothing more than sex objects:

Why should women want the attention of men who see them as nothing more than unpaid servants and semen toilets? …

The alternative to having a hateful misogynist around who expects you to clean up after him, accept his ranting about how women are a repulsive subhuman class whose only purpose is service to men, and to masturbate him without any hope of sexual pleasure yourself is simple: Not being with such a man. As many feminists can tell you, there’s a really pleasant alternative: Men who like women and like to hang out with us and aren’t just tolerating us in exchange for sex and housework.

But what if, as manosphere men (and antifeminist women like Sunshine Mary) like to gloat, you can’t find a man?

Being alone is better than being with a man who thinks you’re part of a degraded class put here to serve him. No matter how much misogynists may rant, they can’t get around this inherent problem in their philosophy, which is that “alone” is always a superior alternative to their company.

Sunshine Mary has responded with a post that basically argues, well, but men don’t like you, you fat slutty feminists — take that!

One of the core pillars of feminism seems to be trying to control how men think about women.  We want to be seen as smart, so by fiat order we’ll command men to see us as equally intelligent.  We want to be seen as having the ability to be sexually promiscuous, so we’ll command men to hold a positive opinion of sluttery.  We want to be seen as beautiful at 200 pounds, so we’ll command men to find us hot despite our obesity.

But it doesn’t work.  Men don’t like slutty women for anything other than sex, as the last comment thread here rather conclusively proved.  Men don’t find fat women attractive.  Men don’t like bitchy, loud-mouthed mannish feminists.  Men don’t care about women’s supposed careers.  All the commands in the world will only cause men to keep their opinions quiet, but it does not change those opinions.  All the attempts in the world at resocializing men to like what feminism has turned women into will always fail because it works against the natural order of things.

Now this is just nonsensical and, you know, not true for all but a backwards and rather assholish subset of men. But it’s what follows that’s really chilling — not chilling because it reflects reality, but chilling because it suggests how punitive and self-hating Sunshine Mary’s philosophy really is.

She argues that feminists find the Manosphere “scary” because manosphere misogynists won’t do what feminists want them to do.

It is scary to imagine that men will stop doing what they are told by women to do.  It is scary to feminists in particular because, instead of being dependent on one man like I am, they are dependent on men as a group to fund them.

Men pay the majority of taxes in the United States.  Without men’s taxes, student financial aid for Women’s Studies degrees will dry up.  Without men’s taxes, baby mamas will starve.  Without men financing it, women who are being placed into corporate leadership simply as a response to affirmative action and who then quit these jobs after a year to write tear-filled articles in the Atlantic about work-life balance, demanding even more subsidies from men to ensure that women never need to suffer the consequences for their stupid choices, will cease.  I only have to manage my husband’s opinion of me in order to secure his provisioning; feminists have to control all men’s opinions of them in order to secure their provisioning.

Yep, that’s right. Sunshine Mary believes that women are incapable of taking care of themselves and so must depend, essentially, on appeasing men in order to survive. She thinks she’s lucky because she only has to appease one man, while women who actually, you know, earn a living have to appease all men. Because they’re not really earning a living. They’re just playing at earning a living because the men of the world are nice enough to humor them.

But don’t make the men mad, Sunshine Mary warns, because then you’re screwed!

And she seems rather pleased that she can make this threat from what she percieves as her position of relative security.

How fucked up is that?

About David Futrelle

I run the blog We Hunted the Mammoth, which tracks (and mocks) online misogyny. My writing has appeared in a wide variety of places, including Salon,, the Washington Post, the New York Times Book Review and Money magazine. I like cats.

Posted on October 17, 2013, in antifeminism, creepy, evil fat fatties, evil single moms, evil women, feminism, gloating, ladies against women, men created civilization, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, not-quite-explicit threats, only men pay taxes apparently, oppressed men, patriarchy, patronizing as heck, sunshine mary, taking pleasure in women's pain, women's jobs aren't real, your time will come and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 295 Comments.

  1. Ah, the BMW. Truly the present that says ‘I care for and value your offspring.’

  2. She’s across the country, so I don’t think I can send her stew.

    She is actually getting a new (used) car, though, because her old car could only handle one kid. Her husband’s car can take them both, but they both need to be able to do school/childcare pickups. I got her daughter a very soft blanket (kid-sized, not baby-sized) when she was born, and they still use it so I might do the same for the boy.

  3. My cousin just had a baby; cute little guy, but a screamer. Has been making the poor parents’ lives just a wee bit of hell. Especially the no-sleeping part.

  4. My presence is gold for my friends: for some reason Norah just settles down and gurgles at me (they are new parents and on the nervous side, whereas I was changing diapers when I was 12 and so being smeared with odd substances from tiny humans is no big deal for me, and I always have ear plugs so that I can cuddle a screaming baby without having to bear the full brunt of the sound explosion)

  5. The teeny ones really respond to confidence and experience, don’t they? My cousin’s kid (who is now two and a half and one of my BFFs) always relaxed when my mother picked him up, especially when he was brand new.

  6. Never heard of push presents either, but if I was having to give birth, I think I’d want the option to squirrel-grip him during the procedure. That’d be present enough.

  7. A push present and future birth control all in one! I like it.

  8. A push present and future birth control all in one! I like it.


  9. Off topic(but also completely on topic),
    Why does sunshineMary call herself Sunshine?

  10. You’d think it was ironic, huh?

  11. Maybe she hates hot weather …

  12. I’ve heard of push presents, but when I was younger my mom read trashy magazines and a lot of hollywood celebs do them.

    Babies are great. Sometimes too much and I’m glad I have the option to give them back to their parents, but they’re warm fuzzy little furnaces. Also, babies have more confidence and are more adventurous and outgoing when they’re picked up every time they cry, instead of being allowed to cry themselves to sleep. Current theory is that they understand that when they need their parents, their parents are always there, so they feel more encouraged to take risks and be out in the world knowing that they have people to support them when they need them. It’s kinda cool, and completely counter to that “They’ll be more self-sufficient if you let them deal by themselves!” idea.

  13. @radical parrot

    Oh, I’m sorry, did you say something, Greater Good? All I heard was “blah blah evopsych blah blah biotruths irrelevant to the issue blah look I can do math”.

    a c c u r a t e


    Cool. I’ve never heard that before, but it’s handy info🙂

  14. You are full of sense. I am going to read every single one of your blog posts. Thanks for this smart and intelligent blog. I love that you mock misogyny.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s


Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 17,152 other followers

%d bloggers like this: