Manosphere Cat Fight Highlights: The Aftermath (Of Nothing Happening)

The He-Man Manosphere Cat Fight Continues! The long-awaited 20/20 story on the Manosphere did not, alas, run as scheduled last night — it’s been postponed until who knows when — but the Men’s Rightsy infighting it inspired continues!

Yesterday, you may recall, the Spearhead’s WF Price called out A Voice for Men’s Paul Elam for his alleged naiveté in going on the show in the first place, and for generally being a shitty backstabbing narcissistic asshole — all fair enough criticisms.

Well now Elam and his AVFM attack squad have responded to Price’s attack in the comments on the Spearhead– as various Spearhead readers have stepped forward to offer their own thoughts on Elam, many of them even less flattering than Price’s screed.

Elam, in his response, tried his best to affect a tone of Olympian condescension:

Wow, Bill, this is pretty sad.

But hardly surprising given the nature of so many men.

These days I normally would not bother responding to this kind of thing, but I do respect a lot of the work that has been done here. The Spearhead has been a very important part of advancing badly needed counter-theory. Still, I personally think my actions deserve better than the skewed, half-baked interpretation you just fed your readers. It actually embarrasses me for you.

He went on to suggest that the “man-o-sphere” that he had explicitly tried to divorce himself from — in a post entitled “Adios, c-ya, good-bye man-o-sphere,” no less — doesn’t really exist, and that getting bad publicity from the 20/20 story was part of his plan all along.

AVFM is moving on according to plan. The banner I placed to The Spearhead on the top of the home page will remain despite the fact that I think this article was a chickenshit move by someone who wants to distance himself to avoid flak for which he never had the stomach in the first place.

Price wasn’t buying any of his false magnanimity. Responding to another commenter suggesting that he had “stabbed AVfM in the back,” he wrote:

You are delusional. I have watched Paul shit on people for years, and finally I’ve had enough. I saw clearly with his scheme to impugn others right when he goes live on TV that he meant to stab everyone else in the back to position himself as better than the other folks just as we are all about to get crapped on.

You MHRM people have your place. Please, stay there so I don’t have to be associated with it.

There are a number of other, well, memorable comments in the thread.

3DShooter offered these thoughts on Elam’s leadership abilities:

I once thought quite highly of E-lame, until I eventually had a private email disagreement with him. His utter lack of rationality and profuse use of uncalled for foul language showed him for the little man that he really is (and you can almost see the spittle dripping from his chin in his response to this article really Paul, ‘chickenshit’ – ya know ya really wanted to drop the f-bomb like you do when no one’s looking). Frankly, the MRM’s probably lucky he didn’t go off on one of his foul mouthed rants on camera.

If there can be such a thing as a ‘leader’ in the MRM, E-lame isn’t it. Maybe this will give E-lame an opportunity to reflect on why it is important to not be so quick to turn on others – eh, I don’t think he has it in him.

In keeping with the unwritten manosphere rule that whenever people within the manosphere actually step up to criticize one another they generally do so for the completely wrong reason, assorted commenters attacked A Voice for Men for allowing women into its little clubhouse, and a few accused Elam of possibly being some sort of a mangina or even a feminist. Anonymous Reader put it this way:

More and more, AVfM appears to be heading down the path of the Good Mangina Project – co-option by conservative feminists … is proceeding onward. In time, Elam will likely be surprised to be kicked out of his own organization, just as Tom was at the Mangina Project.

Because of the known 4:1 preference that women have for other women in organizations, allowing any woman to have any authority in a group like AVfM sets in motion the long term destruction of the group.

Paul Elam unhappily has been a beta all along.

And then there was the always baffling joeb, with this bit of conspiracy-theorizing:

Some of the garbage I see from AVFM would be considered by some businessmen if it was there interest as nothing short of Machiavellian

From the last encounter with the gays in Toronto” witch to me seemed scripted ,( I have good reason ) Too giving a American Traditional institution like 20/20 a chance to push Man up on the population Throw what will be code blue shaming tactics is unforgivable .

This could set back the Manusphere two or three year . With the recent offspring Mgtow claiming popularity its going to kill membership . Hope the best and prepare for the worst is what I always say . Whatever happens I think It would be a really Really good Idea for all of us to saturate the net for the next few weeks , Taking advantage of ether Lindsey Lohan press or Good Press its all the same .

Oh, Manosphere, My Manosphere: in the sheer weirdness department you never disappoint!

About David Futrelle

I run the blog We Hunted the Mammoth, which tracks (and mocks) online misogyny. My writing has appeared in a wide variety of places, including Salon,, the Washington Post, the New York Times Book Review and Money magazine. I like cats.

Posted on October 19, 2013, in a voice for men, antifeminism, are these guys 12 years old?, beta males, conspiracy theory, crackpottery, drama, drama kings, evil women, FemRAs, girl germs, hamstering, infighting, manginas, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, paul elam, the spearhead and tagged , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 82 Comments.

  1. RE: Alice

    Yeah. I mean, I generally didn’t have depression… until homelessness was on the horizon, and then it was pretty crippling. And whenever I injured my knee, I went bananas because I’d have to sit in the house all day and I NEED my daily exercise or I get really antsy and unbearable.

  2. LBT – My personal experience was stress, impending isolation, and hypothyroidism. Especially the former and the latter. Getting out of the house made me happy, coming home made me miserable. Etc.

  3. Yeah, that’ll do it. And I know my wonky sleep schedule used to alarm me a lot, because I was sleeping like I had when I was depressed, and I couldn’t tell if I was or not. (Turned out that it was probably my meds. But still frightening!)

  4. I get scared if I go without my levothyroxine now. I don’t want to go back.😦

  5. LBT, if I may ask, how’s the housing situation now? Are you currently homeless, hiking across the country, or did it work out some other way?

    Regarding physical illness and mental illness… IDK if it’s bad or good to find out that you have some kind of physical problem that made you feel like shit? Guess it depends on whether the physical stuff is easily treated or not. Over the years, I’ve occasionally had some weird physical symptoms, and my psychiatrist has sent me to a, um, what’s the English? Body doctor? – to check it out, and it’s always ended with them concluding that my body is actually tip-top healthy and anything wrong with it is just psychosomatic. I never know whether to feel relieved or frustrated.

  6. The ablation has a really high cure rate – something like 91% – so if he’s able to get that done, he should be fine.🙂 And even if he can’t get it for whatever reason, it’s easily managed with meds from what I’ve heard. (I’m still waiting on another appointment to find out whether I can get an ablation done or not myself.)

    I hadn’t ever heard of it either until I got diagnosed. I was told that people with WPW are often diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder until they get the WPW diagnosis.

    Anyway, I’m glad to hear he’s doing well now! It’s definitely not a pleasant thing to live with, but at least he knows about it now and can treat it accordingly.

  7. RE: Alice

    I hope to wean myself off my meds when I finish my trip. I’m on such a low dose already, I don’t think it will be too rough.

    RE: Dvarghundspossen

    Traveling the country! So yes, technically homeless, but in a much different, much nicer way. My trip has been abbreviated, and it has the standing proviso that if I feel too bad, jet back home, but I’m feeling good so far.

    Also, I get psychosomtic shit sometimes. It is unbelievably frustrating to be too weak to leave the house, intellectually know that there is nothing physically wrong with me, and still be unable to do anything about it.

  8. @Alice I hear you! Depression was the worst symptom, for me, especially since I’d gone without any depression for about 8 years prior to being dx’ed hypo, and it came whooshing back when my FT3 levels went in the toilet. What was worse is that my doc at the time was far more interested in treating the depression than they thyroid, even though I made it very clear that for me, depression was a symptom of something physiological, probably autoimmune, and to please check my thyroid.

    Not easy to advocate for yourself with a healthcare professional when you’re depressed. Can be done, but not easy.

  9. Glad to hear it, LBT.🙂

    I’ve had a psychosomatic illness two years ago where I could hardly eat anything without throwing up. NOTHING wrong with my stomach physically… Took me a month to recover, and by that point I had lost seven kilos (and I was skinny to start with) and constantly felt completely weak and stupid from the lack of nutrition.
    My psychiatrist prescribed a med for me that was supposed to numb the vomit reflex, but sadly, it didn’t work.

    Anyway, for me it’s been years between each episode with some kind of psychosomatic illness, but the few times it’s happened to me it’s been pretty dramatic like that.

  10. sakurabelle, thanks.🙂 For the well-wishes and for the information! My family has been really lucky when it comes to physical health so to have my 30-something brother hospitalized with a heart condition is totally new territory for us.

    I hope it works out for you with the ablation! Keep me updated if you’re willing…🙂

  11. RE: Dvarghundspossen

    Ugh, that’s awful. Nausea was a huge part of my eating disorder, though thankfully, actual vomiting wasn’t. Part of my rage and frustration was that I couldn’t find any ED books that actually DEALT with that. They just seemed to assume I wasn’t eating out of sheer stubbornness, not that eating actually made me feel sicker. Choking down meals when everything makes you feel queasy takes a lot of energy.

  12. That sucks, LBT. I hope you are better now.

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