Videos to get you PUMPED. Also, a creepshaming manifesto from the Men’s Rights subreddit.

Today I feel an irresistible urge to post music videos. Above, an awesome interpretation of a rock classic that is sure to get you PUMPED for the weekend.

Below, enjoy the silky voice of Phil Collins.

And here’s Jim Morrison apparently doing his impersonation of the most insufferable man in the universe.

Ok, ok. Here’s that creepshaming manifesto I promised. Or portions of it, anyway. (Like a lot of things written by MRAs, the whole thing is a lot longer than it needs to be.)

The term ‘Creep’ is used every single day to describe people who have done something creepy. A ‘Creep’ is, according to a dictionary, a detestable person, but not according to society today. Today ‘Creep’ is an everyday word that is plastered all over men’s foreheads whenever they do something women don’t like, there is a thousand ways for me to be creepy as a male that I don’t even recognize until it’s too late, or until someone else decides I’m a ‘Creep’. Here is society’s definition of a ‘Creep’:

A man who shows more attention, platonic, romantic or sexual, to a person then they so desire at that time.

[blah blah blah]

I have a little anecdote here for you all. I had a friend with benefits, a girl I was sleeping with every week or two with no romantic strings attached and it was awesome. I found myself loving this woman, not romantically but as a friend I couldn’t have asked for better. Fast forward a few weeks [blah blah blah]  The fact that I wasn’t aware of the boyfriend, that the message I sent wasn’t sexual at all and that I was a close personal friend of [oh just fucking shut up]

‘Creep’ is a term that gets abused all over this society; it gets pasted on a man’s forehead by women and scars them with a disfiguring social mark against their name to everyone who is around to hear them say it. Men, you are not a ‘Creep’ for showing a woman attention, you are not a ‘Creep’ for loving kids, or for showing interest in child things. You are a functioning human being. Any women who labels you a ‘Creep’ has problems, they don’t know how to deal with other peoples desires, they don’t respect men’s desires, they don’t realize that men have needs and have wants that don’t line up with their own. Any women who labels a man a ‘Creep’ without a dammed good reason cares only about her own desires, she believes only she can have flexible wants and differing needs and she can’t understand that you are just as human as they are, and that’s a little bit creepy in my honest opinion.


Woah. J.C.? The J.C.?

Sorry, Jesus, I didn’t know it was you.

Honestly, I don’t remember you being this whiny the first time around. But whatev. Good to see you.

Naturally, the fellas in the Men’s Rights subreddit think JC’s Creep-i-festo is pretty creeptastic. One of them even left this rather alarming comment:

Youareabadperson5 0 points 1 hour ago (4|4)  Creep is offensive to me. It's more offensive than a gender slur, its more offensive than a racial slur, its more offensive than a slap to the face. By using that word its as if someone is claiming you are trying to harm them sexually just because you are interacting with them. Its as if they are insuating that some one is a sex offender because they opened a conversation, or they said hi. It makes me blindingly, hatefully, ragefully angry.Yikes. I would go so far as to say that this comment is a bit creepy,

The “opened a conversation” bit is revealing, too. Hello, wannabe PUA!

(The folks in AgainstMensRights are making fun of the Creep-i-festo and making Jesus jokes too.)

About David Futrelle

I run the blog We Hunted the Mammoth, which tracks (and mocks) online misogyny. My writing has appeared in a wide variety of places, including Salon,, the Washington Post, the New York Times Book Review and Money magazine. I like cats.

Posted on November 1, 2013, in are these guys 12 years old?, creep-shaming, creepy, evil sexy ladies, evil women, friend zoning, I am making a joke, I'm totally being sarcastic, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, music, nice guys, reddit, video, YouTube and tagged , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 173 Comments.

  1. Joseph: You were hardly shamed into silence. In fact, everyone who replied to you was very supportive.

    Massive side-eye as to your motivations after that comment.

  2. WeeBoy: I hope your cyst removal goes well, and you have speedy healing.

  3. One problem with wanting it explained if you (general ‘you’ here) how you’ve made someone feel you’re creepy, is that that means they have to spend more time talking to you.

    This. No one owes you an explanation as to why they’ve had the emotional response that they have. In fact, feeling entitled to such an explanation is just as kittehserf describes above — you are continuing to try to force this person to engage with you when you are clearly making them uncomfortable or even feel unsafe with you. And THAT’S NOT COOL. At that point you are continuing to try to manipulate this person and force them to do something they don’t want to do. Stop and leave. That’s it.

    And this goes both ways. You also do not owe anyone an explanation as to why you have the emotional response that you have.

  4. Am I the only one starting to get a troll, maybe sock, spidey sense from Joseph’s continued woe-is-me comments? Just the name is pretty side-eye stuff – Joseph M. Ama being short for Jo Mama, being a play on Yo, Mama. That’s … not a nym that inspires confidence on a misogyny-mocking site subject to return trolls.

  5. Kittehs: You are not alone in this feeling.

  6. Ironically enough, I just saw Mr 90% having a whine in that Scalzi post Shaun linked to earlier (it’s from last year). Someone almost immediately called him out as a regular troll here.

    Whether or not he has anything to do with this, I’m getting more and more leery of Mr Ama.

  7. Jomama isn’t just a play on Yo, Mama, we have an occasional troll by that name don’t we? Jomama420? I know it’ something like that because I used an analogy about potheads once to attempt to teach him why gay slurs are bad (the analogy wasn’t straight out “this are similar” but “if potheads got beat to death, would you like being called one” type analogy)

  8. There is a reason I’ve not replied to Mr. Ama. The level of passive aggressive entitlement is offputting, and the message (women are mean to men who aren’t typical) is bothersome. The thing is, the complaint is such that to immediately go, “dude, that story is so convenient” isn’t fair.

    But on balance, I don’t trust him.

  9. kitteh, I rarely read the comments. I generally save that for when I want a troll to mock or material to write about.

    Hey, who wants to know how Edmonton is doing wrt racism? This week we pulled anti muslim ads (YAY), and when the papers reported on the group who payed for them, they listed all of the other anti muslim things they did including protesting the (entirely fictional and made up by them so they’d have something to protest) mosque on ground zero (it was a community center, people). Pulling ads because they are racist, using racism to do so, it’s the Alberta way!

    The ads were “calling out” fatwa, and by calling out I mean they were racist bullshit. In the same paper they reported that a man in Charleston had murdered 6 people because of a custody battle. Thing is, when it’s white dudes we don’t call it an “honour killing” but the base motivation (how dare that women not do what I say) is the same.

  10. It is a community center, and it’s not, “on ground zero”.

    BTW, has anyone looked at the spire on the new WTC? It looks like a minaret.

  11. By which he means it’s beautiful. But I have a thing for Islamic architecture. On that note, pecunium! Google Hagia Sophia!

  12. Oh, for FSM’s sake. You know, my general default (at and away from the keyboard) is to want to be kind to people. The only effect trolls have is to move me away from that default when I’m online, and be leery of being kind to anyone on the internet in case they turn out to be asshats. I don’t know if Joseph is a troll or not, but anyone who reacts to people extending him kindness and sympathy with a childish tantrum is an asshat at the least.

    On a related note, some crap at work is also having the effect of lowering my faith in humanity. People can be such shits.

  13. People can be shits… Sorry to rant here but I may have to “dump” someone close to me who I care about deeply but just can’t take their manipulation any longer. Friday I had to work late because of a really important presentation I am giving next week (which is essentially justifying a $2M program we are undertaking). I ended up getting out of work an hour late (which isn’t that bad IMHO). I had had plans with said friend after work. At 40 minutes after I was supposed to get off work I called said friend and said I would be another 20 min. He said he was still working anyway so I figured all was well. I called 25 min later when i finally got out of work and he said it was too late and he had gone home (lives kinda far away so driving back would be a bit impractical) and I made him wait for an hour and he got bored. When I confronted him saying that I had infact called him 25 minuts ago and he said he was still working I was pretty much called a liar (he said he never once said he was still working. Yes you did you ass! Quit gas lighting!). This isn’t even taking into account that I have waited well over an hour for him many times before. I’m done with this shit, but also feel like I have no other friends so I just put up with his shit.

  14. @Joseph

    Pseudostar: I thought I could be open here without being accused of being a comtemptable person. It seems I cannot. Don’t worry, you’ve shamed me into silenced.

    I must bid this cruel world adieu and flounce for Justice!

  15. Wow. Go figure, some people we try and get rid of for YEARS and they keep returning, but Joseph leaves instantaneously without any effort on our parts.

    Go us?

    Also, yeah, I know a lot of autism-spectrum folks, women and men and otherwise. People generally seem to assume autism is a “male” thing, due to various reasons. WTF. Has anyone ever seen the reverse scenario–man getting creeped on by creepy woman, only to have lots of “BUT WHAT IF AUTISM?” crop up? I’ve never seen it.

  16. Nope, I’ve never seen it either. And when women are portrayed as creepers with boundary issues in fiction, they are full-blown, psychotic murderers. Men are just nerds with poor social skills, but somehow always end up dating the head cheerleader. I wonder if there’s some underlying cause for that, some pervasive set of attitudes and beliefs that pollute and shape the popular imagination…

  17. RE: Unimaginative

    Mental illness and axe-murdering in media tends to slew wildly, depending on the diagnosis and the gender of folks involved. (The old trend in multis is that the women are helpless victims incapable of surviving without their angelic therapist, while the men are all axe-murderers.) So that really depends on other factors than just sexism.

  18. Am I the only one starting to get a troll, maybe sock, spidey sense from Joseph’s continued woe-is-me comments?

    Yup… I didn’t respond to him last night for exactly that reason.
    Honestly, I’m very suspicious of anyone who claims that their being socially awkward has led to them being called creeps on a daily basis. I am pretty awkward, and the only issue I’ve ever had was with me thinking I was being a creep. Nobody has ever called me one.
    I can only imagine that it’s because not being a creep is one of my main motivations when I’m around people. Even if half of my thoughts are revolving around whether I’ve held, or avoided eye contact for too long, or if the way I’m standing seems weird, the other half is mostly concentrating on how the person I’m talking to is reacting. I really don’t think social awkwardness is a valid excuse for not paying attention to the people around you.

  19. It never seems to occur to some of these guys that it’s possible to be socially awkward AND an asshole, and that being called a creep is about the latter rather than the former.

  20. OK that was a bit vague. To expand – there’s a geek myth that if a dude is socially awkward he must also be a really sweet, kind, totally harmless person, and that these things go together like scones and jam. They don’t. There are awkward people who’re lovely, awkward people who’re bloody awful, and every possible point in between. “Awkward” and “nice” are not linked traits.

  21. It’s like the sign the Nice Guy cosplayer has, about him being so unlikeable and building up the Friendzone myth. Some people could lose their awkwardness/shyness/whatever and still be raging entitled assholes.

    Argenti – that other troll is jonatma, iirc. I doubt he’d have the wit to sock this elaborately, unless his whole fifteen-year-old-driveby schtick is just a front anyway. He just comes across as remarkably stupid.

    But Mr Jo Mama’s stories about sexual assault and being called a creeper on a regular basis because he’s non-NT, plus a flounce about a comment that was nothing but kind … yeah, I’m really suspicious now. Like pecunium said, those stories were … convenient.

  22. Oh, I’d forgotten just how…convenient…the other one was…

    And yeah, jonatma420, that’s it.

  23. Google Hagia Sophia!

    You mean he hasn’t?!

  24. re Hagia Sophia, yeah, I know about it. I want to see the Viking runes carved in the balcony.

  25. Wow, guys, speaking of creeps, I’ve been getting creeped on myself! On my blog, no less, which is really unusual.

    So, random dude joins LJ, and somehow gloms on to me. He asks some questions, and I’m used to drive-bys like that, no big deal. But then, in literally the second message, he starts giving me his feelings about how sad he is that I had to leave my family, and don’t I feel conflicted considering they “tried to love [me]?”

    I firmly shut him down, telling him that he was in NO position to talk about my family to me, because he was a stranger to me and I was a stranger to him, and this was not appropriate conversation topics to a stranger. He responded that to him, it was, and that true friends call each other on their shit, and started telling me about his nervous breakdowns. He also told me I was being “very defensive.”

    People? Don’t do that. It’s creepy as fuck. This guy pushes to talk to me about intimate crap right off the bat, tries to get me to buy it, and then when I enforce my boundaries, he calls me defensive.

    What’s even weirder is he reminds me a LOT of my rapist, who did a lot of the same tricks. He’s even the right age and in the right area of the country! I don’t think it is at all, just random chance. Plenty of creepers in Texas, after all.

  26. Wow, LBT. Creepy and invasive and totally not ok. I’m sorry.

  27. In what way is some random who you’ve spoken to a few times on LJ a “true friend”? He really is waving his creep flag all over the place. Boundaries, what are those?

  28. Whoa, that is uber-creepy, LBT. I hope you’re able to block this dude.

  29. …Joseph seems to have written a boilerplate response to what he thought we were going to say, rather than listening to what we actually said.

  30. Which has a rather trolly feel to it. At best, it means he just skimmed and didn’t take in anything that was said.

  31. LBT: Ugh, I’m sorry.

    Random dude sounds like the poster-child of creepiness.

  32. LBT — ack, and nope, that’s not how true friends react to things like that, seeing how step one is, of course, assess why your friend is doing this, step pass judgement is like, step 1,000.

    Pecunium — good, when I win the lottery I’m taking you! Spend a week inspecting every nook and craney. (I did not know about the runes, that’s just extra awesome considering how many empires and religions that building has withstood)

  33. RE: CassandraSays

    In what way is some random who you’ve spoken to a few times on LJ a “true friend”? He really is waving his creep flag all over the place. Boundaries, what are those?

    I KNOW RIGHT. Also, turns out LJ hid a ‘suspicious’ message to me from him. Literally before I ever spoke to him, he sent me an article on ‘the 6 Creepiest Sexual Encounters in Comic Book History.’ And in the previous article, he tried to offer his parents’ place to stay on my trip.


    On the plus side, I’m finding this guy entertainingly creepy, and am now using him for a blog entry on how creeping, gaslighting, and boundary-pushing works. I’m a bit curious how long he’ll follow me with me shutting him down.

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