A Voice for Men doubles down: how dishwashers, TV dinners, and marital rape laws are rendering women obsolete. Also, the apocalypse.

Not the apology that Clint Carpentier is looking for.

Not the apology that Clint Carpentier is looking for.

We met new A Voice for Men writer Clint Carpentier earlier this week, when we took a look at a recent post of his waxing nostalgic about the good old days before marital rape laws, when wives couldn’t say “no” to their husbands and expect the law to take this no any more seriously than a husband intent on rape.

In a second posting, he’s doubled down on the whole marital rape thing and incorporated into a vast and fantastical vision of the past and future of humankind that bears so little resemblance to reality that it’s worth quoting in detail as a sort of case study in Men Going Their Own Way delusions.

Carpentier, clearly a Man Going His Own Way From Reality, begins with a brief and erroneous survey of human prehistory that he seems to have picked up at the University of His Own Ass:

The concept of marriage is relatively new to the human species, but was based on the ancient contract emotionally agreed upon by our primitive ancestors when they discovered that due to their big brains, their offspring were born less mature by necessity than other, less intelligent species; this contract promoted the exchange of three C’s (cooking, cleaning, and copulation) from the female, and three P’s from the male (protection, provision, and progeny).

So not only is Carpentier returning to his notion that compulsory copulation is proper wifely duty, but he apparently thinks that the prehistoric “wife” sat around the cave all day eating neolithic bon bons while her husband marched off to hunt mammoths for her — or perhaps commuted by foot-powered car to his job as a Brontosaurus crane operator at Slate Rock and Gravel Company.

In fact, the notion that male hunters were the main providers in prehistoric society seems to have been little more than a projection of the patriarchal attitudes of older generations of anthropologists onto the past. As best as we can figure it today, prehistoric women were involved not only in extensive gathering but in hunting as well, probably providing the bulk of the calories in the prehistoric diet.

To Carpentier, apparently, it’s all gone to hell since our days in the caves. Today, he laments, “the legal system has been unabashedly twisting the ancient contract into something that amounts to slavery” for men, while giving women more benefits, including the ability to say no to sex, which Carpentier, as in his previous post, describes as a terrible hardship for men:

The responsibilities for women have been eliminated by technology and gender politics, while at the same time their contract benefits have  increased. On the whole what was once her responsibility, to copulate, has become whim and weapon. With a legal system in place which has been designed for her to exploit and abuse, it is becoming increasingly difficult to trust women enough to even associate with, never mind marry.

Yep, we’re now coming to the “I’m taking my ball and going home” part of Carpentier’s rant, a necessary part of any MGTOW manifesto worth its salt.

What women didn’t realize was that the very things which made their lives easier – be they appliances or conveniently boxed pre-made meals at the grocery store – simultaneously reduced the necessity for women.

Let’s let that sink in for a moment: because of washing machines and TV dinners, half of the human population is becoming obsolete.

Women have inadvertently been reduced to gestational incubators; everything else, men can take care of on their own.

But Carpentier is convinced that SCIENCE will soon find a way to create what he calls a “gestational beer keg” to enable men to make a little end-run around that traditional (cis) womanly function. All men will need is their eggs, and well, that won’t be a problem:

[M]ake no mistake, women will sell their eggs, and they’ll do it willingly, just as they sell their bodies … And with the advent of Vasagel, a male fertility inhibitor, which is safe, reversible, and lasts roughly ten years per shot, women will lose the stranglehold of procreation over men.

So, wait, do men want to be able to gestate babies in beer kegs, or do they want to avoid having kids altogether? To Carpentier it hardly seems to matter, as his main goal seems to be to say “I told you so” to women.

At this point Carpentier puts on his futurist cap and sets forth what he sees as two possible futures for humanity.

The first, and most obvious answer – and one I so dearly hope for – is women wake up, grow up, and take responsibility for their own life choices. Women are not children, and husbands are not their dads. A radical paradigm shift will have to happen before men begin to have trust in the ancient contract again. A burgeoning respect for the sex that created and continues to maintain the civilization women so blithely enjoy would be nice. Men have been working on it for five thousand years specifically for women. A little recognition would be appreciated.


And then he says the first positive thing about women I’ve seen him say:

This isn’t about misogyny. This is about disillusionment; we love women, we love their flustered approach to parallel parking, we love it… lift something heavy, or get something high down, we love their sense of helplessness, even when we know they’re not.

That’s right: the only thing he likes about women is what he imagines to be their general incompetence and their possibly feigned “sense of helplessness.”

You know what I love about MGTOWers? Their endless troubles with the basics of grammar. Diagram that last “sentence” of his. I dare you!

In any case, in this scenario, the only way women will be able to get themselves back in the good graces of the men they have wronged by, I guess, not wanting to be raped by their husbands, is for them to admit they were wrong and ask gently for forgiveness:

Men might not be willing to accept the ancient contract back, but we have an amazing capacity to forgive a guilty smile, just meet us halfway, we can work this out.

If women don’t return to men, humbled and ashamed, Carpentier predicts a rather more dramatic future. That is to say: THE APOCALYPSE.

It will start slow, with stores refusing service to those who don’t have the mark of the beast tattooed on their foreheads.

Sorry, wrong apocalypse:

The second thing I can see happening is MGTOW’s becoming criminalized. And here’s how it will happen: it’ll start with a single’s tax, applicable only to men, specifically men who live underneath the tax bracket.

Yeah, this will happen shortly after Congress passes the Monkeys Flying Out of My Butt Revenue Enhancement Opportunity Act of 2014.

Oh, but the Revelations of Clint Carpentier are just getting started. After taxing all the single men, the evil gynocracy will go after their sperm:

If Vasagel can’t be quashed at the FDA level, it will become highly taxed, or just made outright illegal; it’s unlikely anyone with a criminal record, however slight, will be allowed to get a Vasagel injection, on the fear that the doctor may well lose his practicing license. You’ll watch as your fathers, uncles, brothers, friends, get picked up one by one, for what will boil down to not manning up and doing their duty as “men.”

Dude, NO ONE — not even your poor abused socks — WANTS YOUR PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS.

But in Carpentier’s mind the evil gyno-governmental conspiracy to steal men’s sperm and make them all into involuntary daddies will ultimately bring everything crashing down:

You’ll feel the first shocks, as the infrastructure fails to maintain itself under the strain of invisible workers who have been imprisoned. You’ll watch as convicts are forced into slave labor to sustain the infrastructure. You’ll feel the crunch as taxes increase, then increase again, because no government seems to understand that slaves and government workers cannot create GDP; without GDP, you have no tax base, without a tax base, you can’t maintain a government, and a large portion of women work for the government, whether directly or through welfare.

And then Carpentier pulls out his trump card:

And this is only if men are so kind as not to revolt.

Yep. It’s always the same old story with these guys: If you don’t listen up, ladies, the world you know will collapse, MEN will arise as one in fury at the women who destroyed the civilization they worked so hard to build, and a new MANLY MALE MANARCHY will put itself in charge.

And presumably the marital raping will begin in earnest again.

Once again, it all comes down to fury that women can say “no.”

About David Futrelle

I run the blog We Hunted the Mammoth, which tracks (and mocks) online misogyny. My writing has appeared in a wide variety of places, including Salon, Time.com, the Washington Post, the New York Times Book Review and Money magazine. I like cats.

Posted on December 13, 2013, in a voice for men, a woman is always to blame, all about the menz, antifeminism, boner rage, crackpottery, creepy, evil wives, evil women, excusing abuse, imaginary oppression, it's science!, lazy women eating bon bons, marital rape, marriage strike, men created civilization, men invented everything, men who should not ever be with women ever, MGTOW, misogyny, MRA, not-quite-explicit threats, not-quite-plausible deniability, only men pay taxes apparently, oppressed men, patriarchy, playing the victim, precious bodily fluids, rape, rape culture, shit that never happened, taking pleasure in women's pain, women's jobs aren't real, your time will come and tagged , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 321 Comments.

  1. I know this because i have read probably a few thousand accounts in the past 9 years.

    The guys who want MORE sex (I’m not talking about celibacy in marriage /don’t get married if you want to be celibate) .Just more sex or even specific sex acts they want she is not willing to do .The ones that are the sole providers or earn a lot more ALWAYS mention that in regards to the lacking sex . They feel “used.” So they some how correlate (like the cave men) providing = sex.

    Just as many men who want more sex than they are getting that have a wife that earns as much or more never mention their financial contribution as a reason that she should have more sex with him .But they may say such things as I “help her out around the house” or I “watch the kids for her so she can have time to herself.”

  2. True that! I think I was probably just speaking from a place of embitterment towards my Red Piller (or Generic MRM; they blend together for me sometimes and I take pains to not listen to him to carefully) father-in-law. His ideas on how his girlfriends should act are just obscene, and as someone who likes sex but not housework, and has previous terrible experience with the aforementioned house-work-pushing part of that movement, I was probably injecting some personal preference into that. Of course, both are terrible and just wrong!

    I get that . All in all I would rather have sex when Im in the mood ,but I’m rarely ‘in the mood” to do house work! LOL>>> I do like (or did ) raising the chillens as frustrating and as exhausting as it could be at times. But I would never wan’t to approach sex as similar to cleaning the floors..YUK!

    I don’t have “house cleaning dreams” …I do have “sex dreams ” though ! (wink)

  3. @ashley

    thank you for apologizing. That one felt much more sincere than the last (imo)

    @argenit aertheri

    Oh course Elam manages to make “yes means yes” into “women should have to beg for the cock in front of their parents, only way to be sure you aren’t raped”, yes, really.

    Bleh. Of course he manages to turn it into that:/ He’s got to take it farther than those people who act like asking for consent turns sex into robot lawyer contracts.


    .There is one minister that doesn’t “allow” his wife to even wear pants .She is restricted to mommy duties ,cooking and cleaning,shopping for necessities .She’s not allowed to cut her hair . And he makes all decisions .(Im sure including who she associates with ) and of course he doesn’t believe in BC.

    He sounds like such a creep😦 Hope she’s doing okay, at least.

  4. Pratchett dwarves…

    I honestly never thought that all of the “femme” dwarves were biologically female, I have *always* felt that some of them would be biologically male. Since it doesn’t actually figure into their culture or language, there is no way for them to express this except through Morporkian (English) terms, but they just want to wear prettier clothes and drink not beer ocassionally. Of course I *do* realise that this was *my* interpretation. But my love of the Pratchett dwarves (and please bear with me, I’m exhausted and this is a difficult thing for me to adequately convey but I will try here) is the fact that it takes into account the default male position, by making it the disappeared woman position. It is the same/opposite as/of (for an easy and lazy example I will use) the burka, in that women “disappear” in a culture (in theory, although in the case of the burka it really makes women far more visible instead of invisible like it is supposed to). There’s a whole mess of this idea and it’s various offshoots and permutations that runs screaming and naked through my head whenever I’m reading the Pratchett dwarves and I understand what I think of it, but it is almost impossible for me to explain it in words. Basically Pratchett dwarf women have been excluded from society by *not actually existing* in the way that women have been excluded from virtually all recent societies, but in our case it is by existing only for men.

  5. OMG This guy is trying to make women believe that somehow we are the losers because our price tags bottomed out through too much supply .The demand for marriage/monogamy (what women want (not men) went down because women made sex cheap.

    And he had the NERVE to accuse “who?” of dehumanizing women ?

    Hey idiot LISTEN up ..I’m not a fucking SEX supply for some man demanding it! Married or not ! I’m not “for sale.”

  6. I can’t hear the video (no loss, heh) but it doesn’t seem to occur to this twerp that we don’t actually need to marry if we don’t want to – least of all to idiots like him. A man who sees women as some sort of commodity whose value has dropped isn’t worth marrying – or fucking, or talking to, or asking the time – in the first place, so if he’s getting in a snit and not wanting to touch all these nasty used-up women, then it’s a win-win situation.

  7. Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III

    MGTOW: I’m taking my bat and my ball and going home, so there!

    Everyone else: But we’re playing backgammon.

  8. “Ladies, if you want to have sex, get down on your fucking knees and beg for it.

    Better yet, do it in public. Stop foreplay and take a trip to the mall so there will be lots of witnesses. When you plead for the cock, make it loud and desperate and as self-humiliating as possible — so he’ll know you’re enthusiastic. Invite your parents to watch if you have to. It is the only way to be sure you are not being raped. God knows, and so do feminists, that you’re not smart enough to know what you want and how to express it in a way that works for you and the person you are with.”

    Funny. Every time Elam opens his mouth, all his sexual fantasies fall out.

  9. Hey guys, slightly off-topic but I saw this cartoon on a webcomic I like recently and thought the commentariat on this blog might appreciate it:


  10. Sredni – ah yes, the Straw Feminists!

    I love Hark, a Vagrant.🙂

    MorsithJ – yes, and a steaming pile of rapey vomit they are, too.

    Sir Bodsworth – LOL!

  11. @ lana

    Funny, because I would estimate that guy’s sexual market value at about $1, and that’s only if he offers to drive the woman around.

  12. I can’t hear the video (no loss, heh) but it doesn’t seem to occur to this twerp that we don’t actually need to marry if we don’t want to –


    But I wish you could listen ..Its for the woman’s “protection.” Before the sexual revolution she was protected (valued as high price thus demand UP) . Its the sexual revolution that has lowered her price tag . Marriage is her only way to keep value on her pussy!(collective ‘her)..other wise basically we are a dime a dozen . OH and its the Abrahamic religion that saved all the women in marriage. Now its all gone to shit because of fem nazzi’s OOPS I mean the sexual revolution !!!!

    Got it????????????????????

  13. Cassandra ?

    I would rather walk .

  14. Cassandra — ass gas or grass and he sure isn’t getting ass or your weed? (Tell me you’ve heard that one?)

  15. I’ll give you 50 cents for him, but only if he comes with a coupon for some sort of spa service and I’m allowed to throw him away on my way out the door.

  16. Oh thanks lana, now my eyes have rolled out again!😛

    Hmm, I’d have put this guy’s sexual market value at about one mark. That is, the mark as it was during the Weimar Republic’s hyperinflation, where a loaf of bread cost 80 billion Reichsmarks.

  17. The best part is he explains all this buying and selling of stock in TWO minutes! The whole rise and fall of the “stock market” explained in 120 seconds! Its simple like an infomercial !What are you waiting for ??Hurry offer ends at midnight!

  18. I would like to amend my previous offer to specify that whatever freebie comes with this guy absolutely must not involve any sort of financial advice.

  19. Cassandra you are the stock. So yeah take no financial advice from this guy .UNLESS you want to be bought at a premium!

  20. How about some potting soil? You’ll have to sweep it of my floor though. (Hair algae is also available!)

  21. I wonder how he’d feel if we pointed out that each of your new baby fishies is more valuable than he is.

  22. SQUEE! They are, they bring happiness and joy! And you might even get to see them soon, though I may have to video them so you can spot the movement.

  23. They are, seriously, about this big currently ___

  24. Aw.

    In other news, my kitty spotted a squirrel earlier and was very excited. She growls at other cats, but apparently she likes squirrels. I guess they’re more her size.

    (Mr C and I think she has a complex about being teeny and that’s why she tries to scare off other cats.)

  25. I’m rather curious to .Since when did “supply’ ever surpass “demand” for guys like him ?Is he fantasizing he’s a rock star or something?

  26. Aww, that’s adorables! I had the kitty suckling me earlier, which would’ve been cuter if she wasn’t kneeling through my sweater thing and into my side!

    And puff is, predictably, still interested in anything I do near the tanks, being watched by an inch long fish is hilarious.

  27. Ahh….squirrels are FUN! A challenge! My brother had a kitty that loved to …(not play) but curious about squirrels. Just beware (not that you don’t know this) Squirrels have very sharp claws and teeth and are stronger than they look .(and they can carry rabies) ..SORRY the mother in me ! lOL!!

  28. Apparently, since I’m not indigenous, I’m not a TRU American, even though my birth certificate would attest to the fact that I’m born here and even though I’ve only been out of the United States twice.

    It’s akin to the “Where are you from?”/”America”/”No, where are you from?” conversation.

  29. Oh wow, I posted in the wrong thread. GAH.

  30. -eye rolls-

    one of the Defining MRA traits seems to be self delusion. Have you ever noticed how the vast majority of these people who make a reactionary movement seem to try to play the ‘everyone is like me’ Card? They seem to genuinely believe that deep down, all men know they are oppressed, but are either too infatuated with the Women folk to admit it, or Simply haven’t realized it consciously. Not only do they lack empathy, but they seem to be utterly unable to look past themselves. Because obviously, anything they have experienced in their lives( Or heard from anecdotal stores of others.) is indicative of the norm, and could never be an outlying case. And of course, they NEVER suffer from confirmation bias.

    Plus, Im still amused to heck and back again by how the “Men going their own way” Is defined not by actually going their own way, but LOUDLY announcing that they are going their own way, because of you EVIL woman folk!

  31. Since when did “supply’ ever surpass “demand” for guys like him ?


    That is so true!

  32. @ marina

    Narcissism is a hell of a drug.

  33. marinaliteyears: The constant projection of their own worst traits onto others is, as you note, a defining trait of the movement. That’s why they have to insist that Our Host, for instance, is just in this ‘feminist’ thing to gain access to women for sex–it’s the only reason they can think of to treat women like human beings.

  34. @freemage: And even then, they often don’t treat women like people at all. The MRA movement as a whole is just so ass-backward that it can completely boggle the mind sometimes, even those people who study it.

  35. OMG…this is so inadverently funny! We women do take responsibility for our choices. It’s the men who don’t. Oh, good grief, that video above…oh, he’s kidding..hahahahahaha! Oh, poor men who can’t rape their wives like back in the good ole days! It’s no wonder women don’t want to marry/stay married anymore. Wives are seen as nothing more than sexual outlets to be used anytime and anywhere..and evidently any way. “Give me sex whenever I want it or I’ll divorce you and no longer protect your sexuality…while I simultaneously exploit your sexuality!” I’m also beginning to understand why some women believe the pill was the worst thing for women. It was seen as freedom for women but became freedom for men from the responsibility of protecting themselves. Men could and did shove all reproductive protection onto women’s backs and gave themselves someone to blame when something goes wrong. “Women act like children…make them be responsible!” Sorry, pal, it’s men who are acting like helpless children who don’t want to be responsible for their own choices, behaviors, etc. Ugh and yuck.

  36. maybe try to show why he is wrong instead of just responding on emotions only. the divorce rates, court settlements, etc all prove hehas a valid reason to think that way. all i can see here is denial of true facts of the reality of the situation feminism has brought on to society. im a firm believer in womens rights and equality for all but on marriage and relationship issues, men are better off if they can live without any of it becuz if for any reason the woman isnt happy she will leave and destroy him financially. if im not trellin the truth please direct me to the numbers that proove other wise. even the pay gap issue is bull shit cuz if u break down number of hrs each sex works thru the year the women are acutally right there with the men on overall earnings. what is happening now is feminism is using false “facts” to try to get laws passed so they get more than men in reality. if im wrong please provide some info, im more than willing to change my opinion. if all im gonna get is u are a rapist, or u are gay, or get out of your moms basement u just further prove how ridiculous new wave feminism is. this new style of bashing a person and slandering them until they are silenced instead of using truth and facts is gonna be the death of any progress.

  37. “Rise From your grave!”

    Maybe, just maybe you shouldn’t necro a nearly 2-year-old post.
    Maybe, just maybe, if you absolutely must do so, you shouldn’t do so with a wall o’ text Gish Gallop that insists we do all the work to disprove a bunch of statements for which you have provided zero support.

  38. Since when is it common feminist practice to use gay as an insult? I don’t think I’ve ever heard any feminist do that and it certainly wouldn’t be acceptable behavior here. What a strange to assume we’d do. It makes me think this troll has never actually spoken to a feminist and is instead relying on what MRAs tell him feminists are like.

  39. So, George:
    1) Either hasn’t read the original text, has poor reading comprehension, or is not really for women’s rights
    2) Doesn’t understand the burden of proof
    3) Thinks feminists actually think gay is an insult
    4) Thinks big blocks of text are acceptable
    5) Is a necromancer

    If he ever comes back to this thread, and then says that the replies he got prove “how ridiculous new wave feminism is”, I’m going to laugh.

  40. Georgie
    “maybe try to show why he is wrong instead of just responding on emotions only.”

    *responds on emotions only and doesn’t provide any facts*

    “I’m for women’s rights”

    *says if any woman is unhappy she will leave and destroy the man financially and defends a misognist*

    “if all im gonna get is u are a rapist, or u are gay, or get out of your moms basement”

    that garbage shouldn’t be tolerated now bye Felipe.

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