PUA dirtbag Heartiste derides creepy Facebook stalker for being too chivalrous

Actual nice guy

Actual nice guy

Men’s Rightsers and Pickup Artists alike are obsessed with the dilemma of the so-called “Nice Guy” who can’t get laid. MRAs see his plight as a symptom of a gynocratic society in which fickle, asshole-loving women are the gatekeepers of sex; PUAs see it as a sign that beta males need to learn how to imitate the vaguely aloof swagger of the natural alpha male.

And both MRAs and PUAs completely miss the point.

To see just how badly they do, let’s take a look at a recent post from the sadly influential PUA shitbag Heartiste, who uses an alleged Facebook screencap of uncertain provenance as a springboard for a diatribe against the “desperate male,” that is, the “desperate, clingy ünterbeta male” who pursues a woman, often in a weirdly apologetic, even abject way, long after she’s made it clear she has no interest in him.

But Heartiste’s example, as you’ll quickly notice, isn’t exactly a textbook case of so-called “friendzoning.” (I’ve blotted out the dude’s face; Heartiste didn’t bother.)

Be warned: it’s a teensy bit long.


Yeah, so I’m thinking that the problem isn’t so much that the dude here is “too beta” as that he’s “a creepy stalker with no sense of boundaries and the obsessive persistence of a serial killer.” It’s not even clear why he’s developed this fixation on her. He says nothing to suggest he knows anything about her other than that she’s a “pretty lady,” and she doesn’t remember ever even meeting him.

Heartiste, naturally, takes him to task not for his creepery but for violating “just about every Poon Commandment” — that is, Heartiste’s set of “alpha male” rules for getting, well, “poon.”

He also notes the fellow’s repeated promises to not “take advantage” of her if she comes over to his place. Generally speaking, when someone casually promises not to rape you on your first date, and presents this as if it’s somehow a generous gesture on their part, it’s pretty much the opposite of reassuring, as it sort of suggests that they were at least considering it as a possibility.

But Heartiste sees it as an example of excessive chivalry:

Any man who thinks promising a woman that he “won’t take advantage of her” is the way to her heart is a power tool. Chivalry works in the abstract (specifically that abstract where unicorns are a possibility); in practice it’s an abysmal failure. A woman, if asked, will always say she wants a man “who respects her need to take it slow”, but in reality, where her words meet the unstoppable force of her tingles, a chivalrous gentleman’s pose is the equivalent of downselling: “Sure, this smartphone looks fast and functional, but it actually has parts made from Fisher Price toys. Try this cheapskate badboy clamshell over here instead.”

No, dude, the problem isn’t that this guy is being too “nice.” The problem is that he’s creeping out a random woman because he refuses to accept that she’s not interested in him.

The trouble with a lot of so-called “Nice Guys” isn’t that they don’t understand when a woman has rejected them — our creepy Romeo in the screenshots here was aware that he was probably “bothering” her only a few messages in. It’s that they refuse to accept these clear if implicit “no’s” as real” no’s.” Because, on some level, no matter how lonely and desperate and “ünterbeta” they may feel, they still feel entitled to sex with a “pretty lady.”

I rather doubt that many “Nice Guys” show up for work at companies that have interviewed them and hired someone else. The solution isn’t for these guys to learn “game”; it’s for them to learn to respect a “pretty lady’s” no as they would anyone else’s.

About David Futrelle

I run the blog We Hunted the Mammoth, which tracks (and mocks) online misogyny. My writing has appeared in a wide variety of places, including Salon, Time.com, the Washington Post, the New York Times Book Review and Money magazine. I like cats.

Posted on January 7, 2014, in alpha males, beta males, creepy, empathy deficit, evil sexy ladies, harassment, heartiste, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, nice guys, oppressed men, PUA, rape culture, sexual harassment and tagged , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 343 Comments.

  1. That’s horrifying, Rahu. I hope he’s rotting in a cell right now.

  2. oh, and Argenti Aertheri – may I offer you some hay and sugar cubes for your growing herd? (trivia note – in WWI, the Allied forces sent more tons of hay to the front, than they did tons of bullets.)

  3. After all, ‘Nice Guy TM’ is such a harsh label to stick on someone…

    Fuck, I missed that too.

    Bullshit and bullshit again. You’re defendingmen who think women owe them sex. You’re making every goddamned excuse under the sun for them on the pretext that it’s somehow ableist not to say “Oh but the poor dude could be on the spectrum, you should be nice to him, you should give him a chaaance, he hasn’t raped or murdered anybody yet.”



    The word that gives it all away.

    And of course when women don’t get away, when we don’t act on our fears, or can’t, and we suffer for it – whose fault is it? Not the dude’s, oh no. We should have known better. We should have seen what he was like. We should, we should, we should.

    Fuck that noise.

  4. @CassandraSays – after I got past the “seriously,. this man is going to waste ALL my recess time???” and realized what was going on, yeah, “absolutely terrifying” is quite a good description.

  5. @hellkell – thank you very, very much for that sentiment, but actually, he’s dead. He was executed for a girl that he took shortly after I got away.

  6. It strikes me as pretty damn ableist to look at a man acting like a jerk and go “oh, he must be autistic”.

  7. Shit, Rahu, that’s … I haven’t the words.

  8. Seriously, Rahu, hugs if you want them, and if not maybe we can provide kittens instead?

  9. Also, Rahu, I hope what I wrote just above wasn’t triggering. I’m really sorry if it was. I hadn’t read your comment when I hit post.

  10. Argenti Aertheri

    *adds hay and sugar cubes to zir stock* thanks Rahu! I was wondering when someone would offer my herd some sugar cubes, my aunt works for a, uh, family that used to be well known in the horse racing world (the “kids”, who are my parents’ age, have no interest in such things, and as such there aren’t so many horses there anymore) — used to get to feed the horses sugar cubes as a kid, and they all loved me for it.

  11. Oats! Have you any oats for them?

  12. @kittehserf – thanks, but no worries about the post. Sometimes things trigger and sometimes they don’t and there’s no way to know what will do what – and your post didn’t trigger at all. 🙂

    @CassandraSays – thanks! kitties and puppies are always appreciated!! 🙂 🙂

    @Argenti Aertheri – yeah, I was wondering about the lack of hay and sugar cubes for a while, and your recent addition made me decide it was time to remedy the situation.

  13. I’m glad, Rahu!

    One dose of Shorty and Kodi coming up …

  14. I’m still loving the tigers who snuggle with monks.

  15. Also, the evolution of cat dance:

    (I can never get enough of these two. Shorty looks SO much like Mr Hadji.)

  16. This video of cats dancing is very offensive to Scots/Irish people because of music, which sounds sort of generically Celtic. For shame!

    (Sorry, thought this was Shakesville for a moment.)

  17. thanks, kittehserf and CassandraSays!!

    Has anyone seen this? A friend sent it to me with the subject line “Accounting is BORING”

  18. Now I want to see Shorty dancing in a kilt.

  19. Sleepy duckling is gorgeous!

  20. Aw, baby duck! A friend of mine used to live on a houseboat in Seattle, and there were ducks. Mama duck had some babies one year, and it was great/sad watching them grow up, but the majority didn’t make it. The baby who did we named Moon Pie, and mama duck was RC (like the cola), after a famous Southern snack combo.

  21. okay, totally and completely off-topic, but a high school friend of mine just posted on FB that he had his computer stolen – along with the backup, and now he has no family pictures, nothing. Please, please consider doing an outside backup, guys!!! (I do realize privacy questions, but I’ve known too many people to lose everything due to fire, robbery, etc. when they just had it backed up to an external drive that was next to their computers.)

  22. even just email important stuff to yourself – that will keep it on the email provider’s hardware.

  23. Yes, or keep photos online somewhere – you can have private settings on sites like imgur or photobucket.

  24. I noticed that people bring up autism a lot these days, which is good in some ways, but not so good in others. I think some of this is because of all the misinformation out there about vaccines. There are actually a lot of other ways that people can be socially impaired besides ASD. I have severe social anxiety and I am sure that I have seemed like a weirdo to others at some points in my life. I mean really the case could be argued that so called neuro-typical is becoming less typical all the time. The world we live in is kinda jacked up and evolution sure hasn’t caught up to compensate.

    My point is that we can’t just jump to defend shitty behavior on the grounds that the person could have some issue or other. We can have compassion for them, but still correct them. It is also kinda odd that only when someone is called out for being “creepy” is the autism thing trotted out. We don’t make excuses for any other anti-social or unacceptable behaviors in this way, so why this? Sorry to ramble, but one more thing…I also know and love someone with Asbergers so I may be a bit biased, but it bothers me when “creepers” are associated with ASD.

  25. Not rambling at all, marci. It is all sorts of fucked up that yet more conditions get used to excuse predatory sexual behaviour from men. Not that it’s any great surprise, when you think about it … entitlement rules.

  26. Oh also ASD is a very small percentage of the population, so this idea doesn’t really work especially considering that most women and girls I know have experienced creepers online at the very least. CDC* says ASD people make up around 1%, so the odds are that almost none of the ASD people are the ones acting this way.



  27. Exactly – Sheelzebub mentions the same thing in the Feministe article Ally linked upthread. No way are there enough ASD men to account for the number of men being predatory or willfully clueless shitbags. (Not to mention that ASD =/= asshole, of course.)

  28. I know this is anecdotal, but as I mentioned a loved one has Asperger’s…it’s actually the person I refer to as “the love of my life.” The cliche movie trope about the clumsy, shy but sweet I really think applies to ASD people more than what these other instances. In fact, if you look at the characteristics for ASD, it doesn’t logically follow that they would be so pushy. I know anecdotal…but I was the one who always had to connect and pursue in our case. And I’m the one with social anxiety!

  29. From Seraph:

    I’m not trying to prove you wrong or minimize your experience or suggest anything specific was wrong – sorry if I’m coming off as doing any of those things. I’m actually trying to be encouraging here: your choices aren’t limited to “lots of sex as a PUA but hating yourself”, “sexually-frustrated relationship” and “nothing”. If you’re interested, I for one would be glad to give you some non-evil advice. Doesn’t seem like too much of a derail.

    I think this is the first time anyone’s ever said what you did without coming off as condescending, which is very appreciated.

    That being said, I don’t want that type of advice right now. I’ve spent my entire live trying to please others, I’m enjoying doing my own thing right now (Not “going my own way”, I’m working on furthering my career, working on my writing and exploring local caves and trails and exercising and generally enjoying life for its own sake. And the only time I’ve ever used the word “incel” is in this sentence.)

    I wonder if “People doing their own thing” could be an alterantive to MGTOW? Because I don’t see why a woman couldn’t do the things I do and the MGTOW guys don’t seem to be having an awful lot of fun at all…

    Part of me will always be jealous of people who are able to have sex without going through stupid rituals and who have personalities that are conducive to interpersonal stuff. However, it would be an utter waste to not enjoy the things I am good at.

  30. When there are so many men that are OBVIOUSLY and UNARGUABLY creeps who IGNORE a woman’s stated refusal and BLAME her for her freedoms, do we really need to assume the worst about men who haven’t yet done this?

    Oh, I see. According to Psychotic Girl, if the woman hasn’t explicitly stated her refusal, then the man isn’t obviously and arguably a creep and can carry on trampling over her boundaries forever.

    Three months of daily pestering. Three months of ignoring the complete lack of response. Repeated references to his hope for sex but “I won’t rape you, honest, you can believe me”, all in the face of her complete and utter silence.

    But, hey, she didn’t explicitly tell him to fuck off. so that’s fine and acceptable isn’t it? Hell he can carry on for years, start sexting her, send her unsolicited porn, maybe start stalking her in meat space. As long as she doesn’t explicitly state her refusal, no problem, that’s not creepy at all.

    Maybe, PGirl, you need to go read Feminism101 on “enthusiastic yes” vs “no means no”, before you expose your stupidity further.

  31. marinaliteyears

    I love how these oh so pious Anti-ableist types tend to appear to defend ‘creepy’ men as ‘potentially autistic’, but never to defend woman. I mean, while we are here, what if she was on the spectrum also?

    That being said, “Psychotic Girl” here Seeeems (at least at first.) to be legitimately worried about ableism, but then kind of veers off into defending creeps as the conversation continues, so meh. I feel 50/50 on her being either a well intentioned extremist who chose a bad example to fight on,(and lacks some understanding? perhaps a sufferer of the spectrum themselves!) or her being a ‘creep’ sympathizer who is guising their excuses as anti-ableism.

  32. marinaliteyears

    Oooh, scratch that. After reading some of the ‘veering’ arguments some more, they definitely assume that Its common to ‘creep shame’. Im now leaning on 95/5 odds here. especially on second thought that ‘Psychotic Girl’ Doesn’t exactly scream ‘Im against Ableism!’

    mm. Also, to JoJo, “People doing their own thing” Should totally be a real thing. It was totally my mentality going through life until recently. I kinda realized that society at large’s notions of romance were fucked up, and I couldn’t figure out how, So I decided to focus myself in other ways, and enjoy myself doing so.. I mean, Its not like everyone who has had a fulfilling life has had great romance or a great sex life, so It seemed natural to me to focus elsewhere.

  33. Three months of daily pestering. Three months of ignoring the complete lack of response. Repeated references to his hope for sex but “I won’t rape you, honest, you can believe me”, all in the face of her complete and utter silence.

    Not to mention repeated requests for sex from someone who’s said she doesn’t even know who he is. I’m pretty sure you don’t have to be neurotypical to know that going up to strangers and asking them to fuck you is creepy.

  34. Would there be a way to edit the article to emphasise Heartiste’s douchery while considering the possibility that the ‘stalker’ is seriously suffering from a real difficulty in social interaction? After all, ‘Nice Guy TM’ is such a harsh label to stick on someone…

    This is a bullshit defense.

    1: You don’t know this, you (for whatever reason) choose to infer it.
    2: yep, being a Nice Guy™ is a shitty thing to be; it ought to have repercussions.
    3: Blaming Nice Guy™ behavior on autism, etc. is a shitty thing to do to the autistic, etc.

    And really, there are lots of assholes in the world, assholes who act like this, and are plainly just assholes.

    I don’t know, is it more ableist to consider the possibility that someone has a disability that may account for aspects of their behaviour, or not to consider it?

    To consider it.

    If a person has a disability, then they have one. If they are an asshole, then they are an asshole (the two also get to overlap). To say, “Oh, we can’t assume this asshole is an asshole because s/he might have a disability, so the asshole behavior isn’t really blameworthy,” is unfair to all the disable who aren’t assholes.

    Yes, there are some people who can’t learn social cues, etc., but to imply all lack of social cues is related to disability is actually a pretty asshole thing to do.

    That is literally ALL I’m saying. Point out how wrong and threatening the behaviour is, YES. But there’s no need to make assumptions about the person committing it

    But you did just that. You asked if there was a way to introduce the idea that he might not be blameworthy because he might be, “on the spectrum”. That’s asking Dave to tell people to make assumptions; assumptions that give cover to stalkery assholes with no concern for other’s boundaries.

  35. Cassandra: Yeah, there was a lot of passive insistence that sex was on the agenda. It was far from a clueless thing. If she invites him over/goes to his place, he has established grounds for the, “I thought she wanted it defense”. Creepy as fuck.

  36. hellkell: I am so tired of this “maybe he’s on the spectrum” shit to excuse a guy’s behavior. It seems to be everywhere recently.

    Because it hijacks a lot of trump cards. It’s an appeal to SJ (ableism), it’s defensible (you don’t want to give the disabled a fair shake). It removes the offender’s agency, (he can’t help himself), and it makes the people who say, “that’s douchebag behavior” into heartless bullies.

    So they get to defend the indefensible, and attack those calling it out, while working from, “pure” motives.

  37. Oh, I see. According to Psychotic Girl, if the woman hasn’t explicitly stated her refusal, then the man isn’t obviously and arguably a creep and can carry on trampling over her boundaries forever.

    Yeah, shades of the Popehat thread. Nope. Lack of overt interest ought to be enough.

  38. “Yes, there are some people who can’t learn social cues”

    Plenty of autistic people can though. They have to learn them as rules like the rules to anything else, but they can learn them (tangentially, my cousin’s autistic son has his first crush, it’s all kinds of cute. And I am so not ready for my cousin’s kids to be old enough to date!)

    …but now I need to run, as I’ll be away for the weekend.

  39. tangentially, my cousin’s autistic son has his first crush, it’s all kinds of cute.


    And when it comes my kids’ time(s), I’ll probably be all wait what no you were playing in the sandbox yesterday you’re too young to date and they’ll be all shyeah, whatever pops I need the car and I’ll be left behind, plaintively uttering, but sandbox….

  40. @Psychotic Girl: Autistic people are people and you don’t get to use them as rhetorical devices in order to silence women. You are so gross that I want to take a shower.

  41. mm. Also, to JoJo, “People doing their own thing” Should totally be a real thing. It was totally my mentality going through life until recently. I kinda realized that society at large’s notions of romance were fucked up, and I couldn’t figure out how, So I decided to focus myself in other ways, and enjoy myself doing so.. I mean, Its not like everyone who has had a fulfilling life has had great romance or a great sex life, so It seemed natural to me to focus elsewhere.

    This. A million, zillion times this.

  42. To add another story to the growing list of why blaming autism is an ableist behavior

    Many years ago when dinosaurs roamed the earth, phones had cords and 3 way calling was the new rage I dated a guy who was an asshole. Shortly after we started dating he started abusing me. Told my friends and their answers were usually a variation of “he’s out of your league you should be happy he wants to be with you”

    Tried to escape and still had friends that were amazed I wasn’t willing to put up with his shit since he’s so much better looking than me. Went to the police and heard “did you have a fight and are trying to get back at him?” “You seem emotional, are you on your period?” and a personal favorite “You know filing false claims to cause him problems will send you to jail!” My parents asked if we had slept together & when I told them that he had raped me I heard “If you spread your legs for a dog you deserve the fleas”

    Many months later when I was no longer sleeping or eating, jumping at shadows and expecting him or a friend to be around every corner and pulling my hair out from stress I snapped. I opened the door & told him if he wanted to kill me he was welcome to give it his best try. He took me up on the offer and I woke up 3 weeks later in the hospital. When it went to court his defense was he was socially awkward and didn’t understand the word no (the early 90’s version of he’s on the spectrum). He was found not guilty of assault.

    I didn’t have a full nights sleep until he died. To this day I don’t walk alone after dark. I have a dog that most people consider terrifying looking (but the puppy snuggles are awesome). My husband has been punched more times than I like to admit when I have night terrors. I don’t open my door after dark, if you come to my house once the sun goes down you need to call me from the porch and spouse will open the door.

    So for anyone who tells me that I’m over-reacting when I say I don’t feel safe, fuck off. When anyone tells me there is a reason I should excuse that behavior, go to hell. When anyone tells me I did something wrong or to cause this, I hope you step on rusty lego laced with tetanus. When someone tries to make me feel bad if someone gets their feelings hurt because I don’t assume that they are harmless, I hope you never truly understand why I feel this way because it’s not a life I would wish on my worst enemy but I do hope one day you can at least sympathize. And in the meantime go sit on a cactus.

    Sorry for the wall o text, this happens to be a sore spot for me. But I must say this community is awesome-sauce!

    **back to lurking**

  43. Sam-I-Was:

    I’m with you. Completely. I’m not going to share my own history (because its honestly not nearly as bad and don’t want to sound condescending), but I likewise have some mental (and physical) scars that I carry. I hate it when people tell me to “get over it” or “not to treat everyone like that”. People who haven’t been there don’t know.

    Also, I know quite a few autists who are very angry when people use the “LOLZ AUTIZM SPEKTRUM LOL!” excuse. I’m not Hans Asperger, but I know quite a few autists and they don’t act like this. I’ve been spammed with opinions about comic books and video games long after I ceased being interested, but that’s a different kind of objectionable behavior.

  44. Falconer — the cousin’s kids aren’t quite to driving age yet, the oldest batch is 13~, but yeah, I’m all like “what do you mean she’s got a boyfriend? Last week she was ‘flashing’ my brother her diaper!” and “he’s got a crush? Seems like yesterday when I scared him by signing back” (he’s fully verbal now, but when he was little the autistic one wouldn’t speak, only sign, and apparently didn’t know I knew enough to tell him my name that way, I felt so bad when he went to hide behind his mother…)

    Sam-I-Was — like JoJo, I’ll not tell my story, in part for the same reason as JoJo, and in part because I can’t deal with that. But about the only place I seem to get any real sleep, even wih my anti-PTSD-nightmare drug (prazosin, it’s technically a blood pressure drug) and sleeping pill, is pecunium’s. Or my pharm student’s, but that’s a much longer trip. So yes, hoping these assholes learn some empathy may be my favorite “curse” for them.

  45. I’ve read about so, so many cases like this where ignoring the person’s constant harrassment doesn’t get the message through, but at the same time simply saying no might be just as ineffective. These types often seem to think that no simply means “convince me”.
    If they are too “discreet” about their disinterest, they won’t stop. Ignore them, and they keep going. Be blunt and it may or may not work, often accompanied by insults and possibly worse, such as threats and/or guilt tripping.

    I’m just glad I’ve never received such attention. The only unwanted comments have pretty much been strange males messaging me to ask me if I’m a lesbian, because I have short, brightly colored hair. Yeah.

  46. When there are so many men that are OBVIOUSLY and UNARGUABLY creeps who IGNORE a woman’s stated refusal and BLAME her for her freedoms, do we really need to assume the worst about men who haven’t yet done this?

    Yes, we do. I’d rather assume the worst and be safe (even if wrong) than make kindly excuses and maybe not live to be sorry. After reading what Sam-I-Was said above, I’m doubly and triply convinced that this is the appropriate thing to do. I’ve had more narrow escapes than I care to talk about because I was more willing to listen to the little voice in the back of my mind saying “No, this is creepy, get out!” than I was to heed my Nice Girl™ Training and give some weirdo too much benefit of the doubt.

    Also, enough with the autism card! I have a Facebook friend in the UK who is on the spectrum, and he’s nothing like the creeper above. He’s bright and often funny and very open about his troubles. His status updates frequently include transcripts of the many arguments he’s had with his own befuddled brain, and he is certainly NOT incapable of reading social clues, if his lovely girlfriend is any indication. He is politically and socially aware — much more so than I was at his age. He makes fun of Nice Guys™ all the time, and has a very healthy contempt for MRA/PUA bullshit in all its myriad forms. He would undoubtedly say the same things as everybody else here is saying about the creeper…and he would be adamant that autism spectrum disorders are NOT a Get Out Of Jerk Jail Free card!

  47. “My parents asked if we had slept together & when I told them that he had raped me I heard “If you spread your legs for a dog you deserve the fleas” ”

    This is why I can’t not be a feminist. This shit is fucking terrifying and cruel. How can someone’s parents say something like that to their daughter?

  48. First I would like to apologize to anyone who was triggered by my post. I stewed about even posting & I had a horrible day and it all just came tumbling out. So if my post hurt anyone I am very, very sorry that I didn’t put in a trigger warning.

    A few points, asshole was not autistic, on the spectrum or unable to read social cues. He preyed on my insecurities and counted on me not having a support system. He was found not guilty because of how society viewed/views women. Once I started to heal I started to work on changing those views. I don’t know if I will see the change in my lifetime but I have hope.

    While I will alway be scarred by how he treated me and the response from what should have been my support system I have come out stronger on the other side. Thanks to him I helped open a rape crisis center. Thanks to him and therapy I learned how to walk away from toxic relationships not only with my friends and significant others but also my family. Thanks to what happened I learned to value myself and use that to help others. It was a long trip and there were many times I didn’t know if I would heal but I have. For anyone who is starting the journey know that you can survive. It is 20+ years on and I have survived and even thrived. I learned to cut people out who are toxic without making excuses for their behavior or feel badly.

    And vaiyt, my parents (specifically my mother who said that) was not a feminist by any shade of the imagination. They believed that I brought what happened on myself. I cut them out for years thanks to therapy and now our relationship is on my terms and I can, and have, walked away until they treat me like they should I think feminism is about creating a safe environment where people are treated equally instead of making excuses for why something happened to someone. It shouldn’t and doesn’t matter if I had slept with him. That is what, as a feminist, I am trying to change.

    Lastly, I could never imagine that there would ever be places like this when I was going through this. Thank you to everyone who has shared their stories and given support.

    And I promise this is my last wall o’ text that I will post 🙂

  49. No need to apologise for long posts, Sam-I-Was – one, you ain’t a troll, and two, you know what paragraph breaks are.😛

    Also, I haven’t said Hi, and have you had your Welcome Package yet?

  50. (Hugs Sam-I-Was)

    This right here is why misogynists don’t want women to talk to each other.

  51. Thanks all, I will admit that I did sneak a look at the welcome package before. 🙂

    I don’t typically post about my story simply because I am no longer his victim. I have taken charge of my life and he can no longer control me. I’m not the person I was before but I am strong and have developed a life that he can not touch. He still affects my decisions but he doesn’t affect my life.

    PS Argenti I will say that as a born and bred ‘burgher I always get a smile when you start talking about Pittsburghese 😛

  52. @Sam-I-Was? – by your “wall ‘o text”s, you have given me a lot of hope, along with probably hundreds of people who have and/or will read them.

    Thank you.

  53. I 100% agree that guy was weird and creepy and should have gotten the message. There’s a lot of guys out there that are just so sheltered they don’t even realize how creepy they are.

    As a side note:

    Why didn’t she block him on Facebook?

  54. Just for you! She knew you would need a way in to imply that the actions of someone who “doesn’t even realize how creepy he is” after sending messages for months with no response was partially her fault, so she kindly provided you with one. Be grateful.

  55. Hey, you tell me Chris. You’re the dating coach. I’m sure there’s a psychologically apt description of her behaviour which may or may not involve the words “attraction”, “attention”, “alpha”, “Game”, “Hypergamy”, “Ego-soothing” and or possibly “Orbiter”.

    Who knows. Maybe she’s an ardent believer in free speech, or this is all set up.

    What’s your take?🙂

  56. He can’t give that information away for free! But hey, I bet we could learn it for ourselves if we were to sign up for his 7 day online transformation course.

  57. 28 days, actually. It’ll make us an Everyday player.

  58. Yeah, shades of the Popehat thread. Nope. Lack of overt interest ought to be enough.

    Some people seem to think a verbal “yes” to consent is seen as an unreasonable demand, and body language should suffice, but ONLY a verbal “no” can revoke consent, because body language is too confusing!

    (Amanda Marcotte pointed out that trend on the Pandagon thread, and it really clarified the dynamic I’ve seen way too often)

  59. *Pandagon thread about the swedish rape acquittal. Need more coffee.

  60. Seriously, dude, if you are a fat ugly man, go to the gym and let girls take care of ourselves.

    We don’t need a guy like you to “protect us”

    Misoginist pig!

  61. What a stupid way to necro a thread.

  62. Daniela, are you getting paid through fiverr? It’s okay. We’ll support you.

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