>Further Reading: The Gender Pay Gap
>
Men’s Rights Myth: The Pay Gap between men and women doesn’t exist, but if it does, it’s because women choose to take lesser paying jobs, or because they decide to have kids, or because men work more dangerous jobs, or something.
The Truth: It’s complicated. Some of those things do make a difference. But no matter how you crunch the numbers or spin the results, there is a persistent pay gap between men and women that can’t be explained away by life choices or any of the other factors that MRAs and others suggest may “really” account for the differences.
You want the gory details? Check out these articles, studies and blog posts.
AAUW (American Association of University Women): The Gender Pay Gap
Women have made remarkable strides in education during the past three decades, but these gains have yet to translate into full equity in pay — even for college-educated women who work full time. A typical college-educated woman 25 years and older working full time earns $50,000 a year compared to $70,000 for college-educated male workers 25 years and older — a difference of $20,000! …
For the entire full-time workforce, a typical woman earned $35,745 compared with $46,367 for a typical man, a pay difference of $10,622.
EXAMINING THE CRACKS IN THE CEILING: A SURVEY OF CORPORATE DIVERSITY PRACTICES OF THE S&P 100 (Calvert investments)
The “Glass Ceiling” is still a problem (emphasis added):
We remain disheartened by the glacial pace at which women and minorities are reaching the upper echelons of power. … Of the 100 CEOs represented [in the S&P 100], 92 are Caucasian males. While women make up approximately 18% of director positions within the S&P 100, they represent only 8.4% of the highest paid positions within the same group of companies, positions that provide the opportunities to develop the expertise and networks needed for future board-level appointments.
Why Do Women Still Earn Less Than Men? by Laura Fitzpatrick (Time magazine)
U.S. women still earned only 77 cents on the male dollar in 2008, according to the latest census statistics. (That number drops to 68% for African-American women and 58% for Latinas.) …
Once you control for factors like education and experience … women’s earnings rise to 81% of men’s. Factor in occupation, industry and whether they belong to a union, and they jump to 91%. That’s partly because women tend to cluster in lower-paying fields. …
But industry doesn’t tell the whole story. Women earned less than men in all 20 industries and 25 occupation groups surveyed by the Census Bureau in 2007 … Female secretaries … earn just 83.4% as much as male ones. And those who pick male-dominated fields earn less than men too: female truck drivers … earn just 76.5% of the weekly pay of their male counterparts.
Women’s Earnings: Work Patterns Partially Explain Difference between Men’s and Women’s Earnings (GAO report, 2003) (Emphasis added)
Of the many factors that account for differences in earnings between men and women, our model indicated that work patterns are key. Specifically, women have fewer years of work experience, work fewer hours per year, are less likely to work a full-time schedule, and leave the labor force for longer periods of time than men. Other factors that account for earnings differences include industry, occupation, race, marital status, and job tenure. When we account for differences between male and female work patterns as well as other key factors, women earned, on average, 80 percent of what men earned in 2000. While the difference fluctuated in each year we studied, there was a small but statistically significant decline in the earnings difference over the time period. Even after accounting for key factors that affect earnings, our model could not explain all of the difference in earnings between men and women. … we cannot determine whether this remaining difference is due to discrimination or other factors that may affect earnings.
Blaming Women’s Choices for the Gender Pay Gap, by Hilary M. Lips
The language attributing women’s lower pay to their own lifestyle choices is seductive—in an era when women are widely believed to have overcome the most serious forms of discrimination … Women work in lower-paid occupations; on average they work fewer paid hours per week and fewer paid weeks per year than men do; their employment is more likely than men’s to be discontinuous. …
However, a closer look reveals that the language of “choice” obscures larger social forces that maintain the wage gap and the very real constraints under which women labor. The impact of discrimination, far from being limited to the portion of the wage gap that cannot be accounted for by women’s choices, is actually deeply embedded in and constrains these choices.
See also:
The Gender Wage Gap: Debunking the Rationalizations, by Hilary M. Lips
Confronting the Gender Gap in Wages, by Deborah Kolb, Judith Williams, and Carol Frohlinger
Barry Deutsch at Alas, a blog has written a series of excellent posts analyzing various antifeminist pay gap myths. Let’s take a look at some of the highlights:
Wage Gap Myth: The pay gap only exists because men work so many more hours than women.
[T]he argument is generally that the pay gap … has nothing to do with discrimination. … Women are paid less because they work so many fewer hours …
According to a [Department of Labor] web page in 2001 … comparing only hourly wages, women were paid 83.2% of what men were paid in 2000. 83.2% is a noticible difference from the 76% figure for weekly full-time wages – but it still leaves the majority of the pay gap unaccounted for.
Myth: The pay gap only exists because women take time off from work to raise kids.
[T]he average female worker has 12.79 years of full-time experience, while the average male worker has 17.41. This difference accounted for between 26% and 30% of the total wage gap.
Myth: The pay gap only exists because women haven’t been in the workplace as long as men
In this view, the pay gap is only still around because women only recently entered the workforce; as such, women haven’t had as much time to work their way up the employment ladder to the well-paid positions. …
[E]xactly how long must we wait…? A woman who had been in the workforce five years when the Equal Pay Act was passed [in 1963] might well be retired by now, and the pay gap still hasn’t gone away.
Myth: The best way to measure the pay gap is to consider only the young and the childless
[T]he effects of discrimination add up over a lifetime. So, for example, losing a single job offer or promotion usually won’t make a big difference; but dozens of such small losses over the course of women’s careers eventually add up to a big wage gap.
Some industries have, in effect, saved money by gradually replacing a male work force with a female work force. But there are many reasons employers might retain a male workforce, even though … men are paid more on average.
[E]xamples that clearly demonstrate that economic discrimination against women, contrary to the claims of the anti-feminists, is a real problem.
Myth: The Wage Gap is Caused by Men’s Higher Pay for Dangerous Jobs
It’s true that men are much more likely to die or to be injured on the job than women. Surely no one would be willing to risk their life without getting paid a premium for it; and no reasonable person would argue that extra pay for extra danger is unjust. …
The problem is, there is no premium for dangerous jobs. And since the “danger premium” doesn’t really exist, it can’t explain the wage gap.
Myth: The CONSAD report clearly refutes the notion that there is pay discrimination
There are important kinds of direct employer discrimination which CONSAD’s methods cannot measure or disprove. For example, some employers are more likely to hire women to lower-paid positions and men to higher-paid positions. (Empirical testing – by sending male and female testers to apply for the same jobs — has proven that this sort of sexist occupational sorting sometimes happens.) …
[P]robably the most important kind of sexism going into the wage gap is the sexism of unquestioned assumptions; unquestioned assumptions about who does the housework, unquestioned assumptions about who does the child-rearing, unquestioned assumptions about innate ability, and most of all, unquestioned assumptions about how jobs are designed for people with wives at home.
I call this last factor the “Father Knows Best” economy; most jobs implicitly assume that workers have wives at home who are taking care of the kids and house, so that these responsibilities never need to be accommodated by employers. Maybe that assumption made sense half a century ago, but it doesn’t make sense now; and by continuing to implicitly make this assumption, our economy is making it unfairly difficult for caretakers (who are usually women) to have careers.
Posted on November 12, 2010, in antifeminism, further reading. Bookmark the permalink. 113 Comments.
>"Being a man (I am assuming), saying that you would choose sanitation (for example) over working in child care wouldn't raise an eyebrow, people wouldn't be surprised at all, regardless of whether the wages were comparable or not…but try saying the reverse and you'd probably raise quite a few eyebrows."I would do more than just raise eyebrows; many people would suspect me of being a pedophile and sexual predator and choosing that job because I wanted access to vulnerable children. On the other hand, if you expressed a desire to work in sanitation, nobody would suspect you of being up to anything criminal.The amount of upper-body strength required to work in sanitation is nowhere near as much as what is required to be a firefighter; most women are capable of working in sanitation, yet feminists don't push for greater numbers of women in this field. That was my point, and it still stands no matter what you say about firefighters. "Actually, the demand for day care outstrips the supply, so the lower pay, at least in this particular case, is not a simple case of supply and demand."Absolutely not true where I live. Perhaps this is true where you live, but that would then translate to higher pay for daycare workers there, which then get lost in the average. Feminists love averages because they hide annoying details that contradict their arguments.
>Thanks for that Yohan. Here in Ireland it was found that the best way to close the gap would be to give men the same flexibility and ability to take time off that women have. Anyway, I think that the average wage gap is an illusion created by the fact that the family wage is counted as a male wage, when in fact its both a male and female wage. Cold, I dont think child care and sanitation are comparable anyway. I've known a number of women that work with children that say that they love their jobs, sanitation is a lower order, unpleasant job that people generally only do to in order to survive.
>IR: Warren Farrell was not the chair of NOW. He was for several years on the board of a local (NYC) chapter of NOW. His argument about "dangerous jobs" is discussed in one of the links I gave.
>David, Farrell never said that dangerous jobs were the cause of wage gap, thats just something that you said he said so you could attack it.He said that its a contributing factor.He points out some very obvious truths -Ill use the corporate world as an example of what he is saying - that if women chose to work in the corporate world in the same numbers and for as long that men do that there would be no gap or ceiling, same goes for politics and so on. And he pointed to lots of jobs that women are not choosing to do that pay better than the ones they tend to chose as well as many jobs that pay women much better than men that women tend not to do.If a woman is enjoying working with children but is unhappy with her wage, she can chose a job that offers less personal reward and more dirt and drudgery but pays more.Of course in order for feminism to seem relevant, these truths are relegated to the status of heresy because feminism needs the existence of some unseen hand / top down conspiracy to fear monger, money raise and rabble rouse with.And you argued above that sanitation pays better than child care, so you are flip flopping between, there is no danger/dirt premium and there is depending on whichever position suits your agenda at the time.
>Here is some progress, there is a drive to get men back into school teaching after feminist anti male propaganda drove them out to the detriment of boys and the education system, another evil mra myth driven agenda to you, no doubt.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1324905/Pupils-make-effort-male-teachers-seen-fair.html
>Eoghan: I dont think child care and sanitation are comparable anywayI agree, that's about the same with my example from Germany comparing the income of a female academic with a male electrician. These 2 people are doing 2 totally different jobs.To claim gender discrimination, because the male electrician is earning more than the female academic is absurd.About daycare, it is up to the person doing this job to decide about her (or his) future. Why not to look for another job? Why not to study for higher qualification? If you think, simple daycare is low paid, then what about to try elderly care, blind people or taking care of handicapped children? Why not to study to become a certified nurse? Many do not like to do jobs with old confused people or with handicapped children, therefore payment is not bad at all and there are always vacancies. There are so many vacancies that we in Europe need to look for contract workers as far as from Philippines.Anyway, the salary gap does not exist. If you think, your pay is too low, look for another job or study for a higher qualification.If you know companies which are paying you a lower salary because of your female gender, let us know.
>Yeah Yohan, a friend of mine is an american child care worker, she says the money isnt great but that her job is "awesome". People working in sanitation will tend to say that their job is terrible but that it pays the bills. Equalizing these jobs implies greater levels of wage slavery/oppression for the sanitation workers and greater levels of privilege for women. My friend the child care worker's partner runs his own business, they have plenty of resources, but they contribute the "gap" only because their wage isnt counted as combined, which in reality it is…. and where are the female business owners partnered with low wage men? It doesn't happen. Slightly off topic, as well as making these arguments about wages, feminists are the main supporters of the ruling class opening the doors so that they can access cheap labour at home as well as overseas, and so damaging hard fought workers rights.
>It's funny reading all those MRA posts about how supposedly women "choose" to do less "difficult" jobs e.g. sanitation. Anecdotally, one of my relatives' worked as a mechanic. He told me that his boss had said to him once that women should be paid less since they would probably start having babies soon and thus go on mat leave anyway. With regards to female mechanics, he also told me about the only one he had ever worked with who was viciously teased, berated, and targeted - e.g. having her tools painted pink, stolen, etc. to enduring sexist comments, pictures, cartoons, jokes, etc. (direct at her and in general at women) to the other guys refusing to work with her, etc. Now, any one who's been around mechanics knows these guys play lots of pranks on each other and joke around a lot - this was different and went too far, in my relative's opinion, and it was completely related only to her gender and went way beyond what any male mechanic he knew had to go through as just "hazing" or joking around or "boys will be boys" pranking. Some positions are genderized and most people just avoid the hassle. Just look at the way men are berated and subjected to jokes if they are nurses or they're suspected of being child molestors if they want to get an ECE degree and work at a daycare. Both positions are probably "cushy" to you MRAs (though I personally think they're pretty hard jobs) but men are socially barred from them due to their sex. Similar sexism occurs when women go into "masculine" jobs like mechanics, machining, engineering, etc. Feminism has been instrumental in trying to break down sexist barriers for women so they can enter any industry and any job. MRAs and feminists ideally would do the same for men but for the latter, they're still working on women's rights, and some feminists simply feel feminism is a movement for women and it's masculinists/MRAs/etc. that should be focusing on men's issues. Unfortunately, as for the former, it's hard for anti-feminists MRAs to be taken seriously because they're seen as the "abusers' lobby group". E.g the same men who argue to lower the age of sexual consent are going to have a hard time trying to campaign for men to be accepted as daycare workers.Also, this has nothing to do with the gender gap. If even when you control for job position and hours worked, there's still a discrepancy. IMO, the idea that men work "dirty" jobs is completely off-topic and irrelevant to the OP- and a common troll tactic.
>TEC: … If even when you control for job position and hours worked, there's still a discrepancy. IMO, the idea that men work "dirty" jobs is completely off-topic and irrelevant to the OP- and a common troll tactic. If you think, there is a discrepancy between salaries of men and women, despite considering working hours and other differences for the SAME work, let us know the names of these companies - but it seems such companies do not exist.Stop whining around!So far in this thread you fail to name even one company for paying differently to men and women.Yes, men are doing any dirty and heavy job and therefore often earn more than women. It's not only about the military.Maybe take a look to Chile and check out the recent mining incident. Not even one person trapped in the mine was a woman, and not even one person drilling on the surface to rescue them was a woman… Or take a look at a certain offshore drilling platform, and let me know the gender of these victims of the explosion and the gender of those people who were working for months day and night to get the situation again under control.Yes, men are earning more, because they do all these dirty, heavy, dangerous work which women refuse. Men are also working longer hours and retire later than women.
>@YohanI thought you weren't going to troll here anymore?"If you think, there is a discrepancy between salaries of men and women, despite considering working hours and other differences for the SAME work, let us know the names of these companies - but it seems such companies do not exist."There is a discrepancy. Try reading, since I covered this in my last post.
>TEC: There is a discrepancy. Prove it!Name those companies, which pay less to women than to men for the SAME work.Stop whining!
>[i]There is a discrepancy.[/i]Why would a soulless, inhuman corporation which only cares about profits hire any men then?Cite the figures. I want numbers - hours worked, years of experience, education level (and major), qualifications, etc.Until you provide those, you're wrong."Now, any one who's been around mechanics knows these guys play lots of pranks on each other and joke around a lot - this was different and went too far, in my relative's opinion, and it was completely related only to her gender and went way beyond what any male mechanic he knew had to go through as just "hazing" or joking around or "boys will be boys" pranking."Yeah, another unverifiable claim. You feminists already proved that you'll lie in order to forward your views, and this is no different. You'll lie to each other, to yourselves, and sure will lie to everyone else. Once again, keep your anecdotes to yourself and offer up some numerical statistics.
>"Cite the figures."You know, you could actually try LOOKING AT THE STUDIES I CITED, which are full of figures on these sorts of issues. Given that you obviously haven't read any of them, I doubt you are actually interested in seriously discussing any of these issues rather than making ideological points.
>The story about the mechanics…I wonder why women do not open their own 'ladies-only' mechanic shop. It could be a nice business-idea, as there are many feminist-minded women in USA who are driving their own cars.That would be nice for a deep-in research too. Will these female mechanics under the supervision of a female boss be paid the same salary as male mechanics working in other shops? Or more? Or less?
>you could actually try LOOKING AT THE STUDIES I CITED…YOU should better look into comments by feminist-minded politicians beyond the US-territory.The female Minister of Family affairs clearly said recently, that there is no gender wage gap in Germany existing.How come the gender wage gap exists in USA, a country which is larger and even more productive than Germany?It is said by feminist sources, differences are about 100 : 73 cent or so in USA.This means EVERY company in USA is paying women about 25 percent less than men for the SAME work.It's now up to you - prove it, name a few companies which are paying considerably less to women than to men in the USA for the SAME work.So far, I fail to see even ONE company named in this blog. But there must be 1000s or 10000s of US-companies doing this all the time… I doubt you are actually interested in seriously discussing any of these issues I don't understand what means 'seriously discussing' for you. David: For the entire full-time workforce, a typical woman earned $35,745 compared with $46,367 for a typical man, a pay difference of $10,622.Show me one company in USA, which pays USD 35.745,- to female employees and USD 46.367,- to male employees for doing EXACTLY the SAME work.I also do not understand what means a 'typical man' and a 'typical woman' in USA.
>If you have questions about the numbers, look at the actual studies I mentioned. They explain where the numbers come from and what they mean.
>Also, this shit about "feminist sources" is again evidence that you didn't bother to look at any of the studies I posted. The AAUW survey is based on census data. The "glass ceiling" study is by an investment firm and relied on things like direct surveys of companies and SEC filings. Another study I mentioned is from the Government Accountability Office; it used data from the Panel Study of Income Dynamics, a large and widely used source of demographic and other data about American families.
>http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/davidgreen/9666597/The_gender_pay_gap_does_not_exist/The gender pay gap does not exist. Nice article, enjoy to read it, David. Same in USA, same in UK, feminist statistics…Can you offer any better reference than some biased 'studies' of the American Association of University Women?According to ASHE, in 2007 a gender pay gap does not open up until women reach about 30 years of age. From ages 18-29 there is hardly any difference and, according to the Labour Force Survey (LFS), women aged 22-29 are paid on average slightly more per hour than men. …..The truth is that the vital difference is not between men and women but between women with dependent children and everyone else, whether male or female. …..Quite simply the Government’s emphasis on the gender pay gap of 22.6% is an abuse of official statistics.
>"So far, I fail to see even ONE company named in this blog."You'll never see them name one because the people making this riduculous claim that employers pay women less than men for the same jobs know that they are lying. It's legal to tell a general lie like that, but the second they accuse a specific employer of doing this they face a libel suit. Of course, if they were telling the truth then they would have no reason to fear a libel suit since the truth is an absolute defense.
>DavidThe gender pay gap is explained logically by all independent sources, the only sources that point to a conspiracy are feminist sources.If women chose the same career path as men, and worked as hard and as long in the these careers would be no gaps or celings, in taxable income.Whats more, when the family wage is counted as what it is a shared male and female wage, women out earn men.
>If that discrepancy in taxable income was fixed through coercion, women would be taking what? At least 1.50 for ever 1 a man does.
>Tec said… It's funny reading all those MRA posts about how supposedly women "choose" to do less "difficult" jobs That's a wrong argument from you, as men are doing the same - I am getting older, have some savings and I am interested to change for a job with less working hours, not so many heavy items to carry all the time etc. but of course I expect to receive a smaller salary compared to my income now because the job will be easier. What has this to do with the gender? Easier job = less payment.The tearmaking story … waahh, men are earning so much more than women.It's about your choice. About your education. About your working experience. About available vacancies. If you are willing to do difficult jobs etc. It has nothing to do with your gender.
>@Yohan - if it's not to do with gender, I suggest perhaps you try an "easy" job like daycare worker…The part of how women should start a women's only mechanics is so stupid it made me laugh. Mechanics have to do apprenticeships moron. How do you expect them to do that if they are discriminated? Amazing how dumb someone can be…I also gotta love the logic - well wominz should just start there own wiminz only business/club/etc. if they don't like the "boys club" in that industry… nevermind the assumption that said women would be discriminatory towards men and that women are doing exactly as you say starting their own businesses, the point is women shouldn't have to start their own club. That's like saying, well if disabled don't get hired because of discrimination, they should start their own disabled-only businesses! Should they put up signs, "No abled allowed," too? It completely ignores that discrimination is wrong! It's clear you didn't even take a cursory look at the sites cited by David if you keep toting that "difficult jobs = more pay" meme and there's no point to continue arguing with you since you, in spite of clear evidence to the contrary, aren't going to change your irrational beliefs…
>TecMechanic apprenticeships dont discriminate against women in the first place so as usual your argument is based on saying things that aren't true, its just another area women can chose to go into in the same numbers that men do, but don't.And when women go into auto body and related repairs they are paid more than men.http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/28/commentary/everyday/sahadi_paytable/index.htm
>I only related a specific instance of a company purposely paying women less, as Yohan requested. How is that not true? And how do you know that women are not discriminated in getting apprenticeships and in the actual workplace while doing their placement? Or "as usual your argument is based on saying things that aren't true"? Pretending that discrimination against women in these "male" fields doesn't happen and isn't affecting women's choice in going into these fields is ridiculous and illogical. It can be easily disproved by speaking to women in a male dominated field. Fortunately, things are getting much better, but it's still an issue.
>There are technical colleges and if you graduate, the apprenticeship for mechanic, electrician etc. is already included.There are also major car-companies, construction companies, which are authorized to carry out their own training programs and exams.It's more about to cry discrimination, but being totally unwilling to try.Interesting that men are always trying out typical 'female fields' and they are very successful. Indeed men are often excellent cooks, pastry cooks, tailors, designers and even pediatrics, gynaecologists…And yes, I have seen here in Tokyo women, who are driving a big long-distance bus, are working for a construction company operating tower cranes and heavy trucks, delivering fuel with tank lorries…And you know what? I was asking some of these women why they do this 'unusual' job, and they were laughing and ALL of them told me, they learnt that all from their father, who is doing the same job… That's an interesting reply, isn't it?We do not have a car at home, we like motorcycles, I am riding motorcycles since over 40 years now, my wife was working in a motorcycle accessory parts company and of course my daughter also wants her own big motorcycle. Easy, if it's about a job and about a hobby related to 'male fields' and you are a young woman, ask your father …Very easy! No discrimination! Father does not discriminate against his own daughter….
>TecShow some examples of discrimination in male fields or is this like your belief that "society treats women like scum" in which you know its happening but cant point to any examples of it?Truths - when we tell the truth about the family wage and count it as a combined wage women have more money than men doWomen get most of the education resourcesWomen are often paid more than men, when they do chose work in male dominated fields.There are many programs to get women into male dominated fields but the up take is not there in the same numbers as is for menMore than half of all women women chose to retire or semi retire 5 to 15 years into their career to peruse more family orientated roles and this is the main cause of gaps and ceilings
>Worlds largest technology company here with an article entitled "More women in Technology needed"http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2010/apr10/04-26icwomenintech.mspxThe world has moved on and feminist rhetoric re. discrimination just sounds like outdated paranoiac, self pitying, delusional drivel and the credible research backs that up.
>Consider the following two scenarios:A) A woman is invited to a brunch where she'll make acquaintances with ten new women in an intimate setting. She tells them she's a garbage collector.B) A woman is invited to a brunch where she'll make acquaintances with ten new women in an intimate setting. She tells them she's a garbage collector.Which woman has far greater prestige at the brunch? Women don't choose between less pay and more pay. They choose between money and a host of other competing goods. It's really that simple.Oh, and the feminist position is getting its collective ass kicked here.
>What is the difference between sentence A + sentence B?'To work something' for your living can never be a shame. She can say openly, she is working as a garbage collector. Nothing wrong with that.I really respect that.This female garbage collecter should ask the same question in return to these ten new women, what are they doing all day? Nothing? A life out of alimony?
THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN LESSER SALARIES AND PHYSICAL BAGGAGE THAT FEMININITY BEARS
———————————————————————————-
if Strongwoman is entitled to equal pay…
…she would hire a nanny instead of costing her employer through months of “maternity leave”
…members of her sickly gender would not call-in sick more than 40% more often than men
…she would not feel a maternal instinct to be at home when her children are sick and need care
…her monthly, mood-unstabilizing egg-bleed would not unstabilize her job-performance
…there wouldn’t be something called “menstrual leave” in a number of countries
…there wouldn’t be gender-based military requirements to compensate for a weaker/less-apt gender
furthermore, the number of single-parent conceptions should fly in the face of the legitimacy of single-parent households
————————————————————————————————————
http://www.thelessergender.com
Did you seriously just necro a 16 month old thread to argue that only wealthy women should be able to have children? That’s an interesting choice.
Sorry, this was 2010. It’s a 28 month old thread. You’re just copying and pasting the same nonsense into anything google pulls up for ya, aren’t you?
“The Femininity Bears” is the name of my new soft rock group ….
“…her monthly, mood-unstabilizing egg-bleed” Dude, you do realize that we are human beings and not body-horror insect demons, right?
Mr. Hanky the Necro Poo.
@M Dubz
The men* who pretend that they don’t have hormonal cycles because they lack a uterus to make it explicit to them always make me giggle. (I mean, it is serious and seriously wrong, but it is just so misinformed and naive.)
*This is obviously not applicable to men with a uterus, and not applicable to non-idiot men without one.
I’m guessing Scott Wanky’s never known or lived with a woman, least of all one who’s recovering from childbirth (oh hai big strong man, you’re unlikely to go through anything like that physical trauma). I’m betting that if he has a job, any women he works with take the odd day off all right, because if he’s as ignorant in other areas of his life as he is in his knowledge of women, they’re sick of doing his work as well as their own.
He probably won’t read any of this, but the thread has already been necroed (necro’d?), so…
Taking a couple of months to recover from a major bodily trauma? How weak! I mean, men never take a few weeks off to recover from surgery or injuries or anything.
Also, money grows on trees, and those women you read about who are spending more on childcare than they’re making at work are all imaginary or lies or something.
Not sure what country you’re writing from and I don’t want to assume, but in the US, there’s a whole macho “men don’t complain or even feel pain” thing that keeps a lot of men from seeking medical care as often as women. Do women go to the doctor too much, or do men go too little? If you’re going to stand on either side of that question, you’d best have some evidence to back up your stance.
Jesus, dude, you say that like giving a shit about your kids is a bad thing (or possibly a base, animal instinct that men are obviously above).
And anyway, if men did their fair share of caring for their kids, women wouldn’t need to take so much time off to do it.
Do you have a citation for this? Folk wisdom and “everyone knows” don’t count. Surely someone out there has actually studied the impact of PMS and menstruation on women’s* job performance, so let’s see some citations!
Also, lol @ “egg-bleed”. If that’s a translation from your native language, I apologize for laughing. If not, dude, you can say “menstruation” or “period”, it won’t kill you.
Yes, a practice found in three whole countries, and criticized by many women in those countries, sure is evidence against all three billion of us.
The characterization of women as “less apt” only works if you assume that male is normal and everything else is abnormal. I don’t accept that assumption. And anyway, things like strategy, the ability to point and shoot a gun, and the ability to keep a cool head in a firefight aren’t really based on physical strength (in before “I forgot to mention that women are also dumber”)
Yes, but Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
Seriously, I have no idea what you’re trying to say there.
…and then I realized he was talking about “strongwomen”, so apparently everything above was only intended to apply to bodybuilders, which is kind of a weird fixation but I guess it takes all kinds…
Oh wow. Has anyone else visited his site? Hi-larious!
Menstrual leave was a thing in Sumerian society: women got five days a month. So it’s hardly something one can attribute to feminism, if that’s what bozo is claiming.
PS menstrual leave then may have had more to do with superstitions about it than about health concerns, much like the ideas of ritual uncleanliness in other cultures.
“Her monthly egg-bleed” sounds like something that should be written on the back of a hentai DVD.