“ManSlug is a vile subhuman thing” and other insights from the Men’s Rights subreddit
Feminism brings another manling into the fold
I’ve learned a lot about myself in the process of writing this blog. For example, this week, I learned that I’m a “vile, subhuman thing” who “like licking sh*t of feminist’s shoes” and “just wants every man cuckolded.” Also, I have some interesting and specific tastes in porn that even I was unaware of.
I learned all of these things from the always reliable purveyors of accurate and unbiased information in the Men’s Rights subreddit, in a thread ostensibly devoted to my coverage of the recent events in Toronto, but which ended up being more devoted to my various alleged failings and my alleged preferences in the porn realm.
Let’s take a look!
Here’s a man who is evidently also a pig suggesting that I am a man who is also a slug:
But ThePigmanAgain was too late! For I was able to steal EIGHTEEN WHOLE TRAFFICS from the Men’s Rights subreddit that day before the moderators removed this thread from the subreddit, lest any more unwary Men’s Rightsers wander into my evil internet lair where they might find writing critical of the men’s rights movement and its farcical attempts at activism.
Evidently Alisdair isn’t one of those who actually clicked on the link to my post in the thread, because he apparently believes that my post was a do-it-yourself guide to cuckolding other men, or perhaps a guide to getting cuckolded. I’m not sure..
And then there’s JayBopara, a MHRA warrior who seems a bit obsessed with what he for some reason believes are my preferences, porn-wise:
![JayBopara [S] -2 points 4 days ago (5|7) This guy David Futrelle like licking sh*t of feminist's shoes, so this sort of article was predictable. My understanding is he also likes mangina porn. This guy Futrelle is the pits, and the sad thing is, there are so many pathetic manginas exactly like him out there. With so many manginas, I doubt the MHRM will gain too much traction. But here's hoping. permalink source save give gold hide child comments [–]Dronelisk 2 points 3 days ago (6|4) ok fine no need to insult the author lest we fall into the same category as feminists and their ad hominem logical fallacies. wait did I just do that too? permalink source save parent give gold [–]JayBopara [S] 2 points 3 days ago (4|2) The reason I said those remarks was somewhere I read, and some places he posted he indicated a liking for mangina porn. Therefore I don't believe I've made an ad hominem attack. It appears from my research there is a link with people who are political manginas and those who like mangina pornography.](../../../../2013/10/maginaporn1_w-604.png)
These comments of his raise a few questions for me.
1) Where exactly is he allegedly reading about my alleged preferences in porn? The MakeStuffUpAboutDavidFutrelleWiki?
2) What on earth is “mangina porn,” anyway?
Asked this very question in the thread itself, Jay has this answer:
![JayBopara [S] 2 points 3 days ago (2|0) Mangina porn = femdom porn. Sorry if you guys didn't understand that. Porn which often is not about sex, as it is about women debasing, humiliating and violently abusing men. Apparently manginas get off on this porn. Mangina porn has nothing to do with transexuals or anything like that. Man·gi·na -noun- 1. A women-firster. 2. A pussy-worshipper. 3. A male who behaves or acts toward men in an overly aggressive way once feminist Maxims are questioned.](../../../../2013/10/manginaporn2_w-604.png)
Ah.
Dude, hate to break it to you, but I’m pretty sure that you’re the only person in the universe who calls that “mangina porn.”
Also, despite the similarities in the first three letters of the words, and the involvement of women in each, there is no real connection between “feminism” and “femdom.” One is a social and political movement; the other is a kink.
Anyway, this is how the HUMAN RIGHTS MOVEMENT FOR MEN AND BOYS OF THE 21ST CENTURY deals with its critics.
Well, its male critics anyway. It treats its female critics much, much worse.
Posted on October 4, 2013, in antifeminism, are these guys 12 years old?, creepy, cuckolding, douchebaggery, evil sexy ladies, gender policing, lying liars, manginas, men who should not ever be with women ever, misandry, misogyny, MRA, reddit and tagged antifeminism, creepy, femdom, men's rights, misandry, misogyny, MRA, reddit. Bookmark the permalink. 184 Comments.
Haha, I noticed a few people saying what porn they are NOT into. It takes much more bravery to say what porn you ARE into. Or much more creepiness. It’s all about context. But in this context, I’d say bravery.
I like the porn where the people get…
>>
<<
…nekkid!
I said it required bravery, and that I do not have. Plus my dude reads this site, haha.
Athywren, I like the kind of porn where people stay dressed in Victorian clothing. ~.^
Delurking to jump into the Korean/Japanese drama discussion
I’m currently watching a K-Drama called You’re Beautiful (It’s my first K-Drama so I had no idea what to expect) and while it’s…problematic in that Male Lead no. 1 is a complete arsehole towards the heroine and Male Lead two is a creepy creeper who secretly stalks her around the city I actually don’t think it’s as awful as some of the other ones described here.
Like, the Male Lead is an arse but he’s not ‘doing it to make her love him’ - he doesn’t realise that he’s in love with her and vice versa. Plus, he’s an arse to everyone and he does do nice things for her, such as taking care of her when she’s sick. She also starts out willing to suck up everything he throws at her and then in the last episode I watched (11) she STOOD UP TO HIM and shouted back at him.
So…I dunno what I think about it. It keeps making me cringe but it’s funny and it does have its sweet moments.
Baby jaguar! They’re all like “PLAY WITH ME RAWR!!” and Mom’s all like, “Yeah, yeah, just play… [aside]it’s so nice when they find something for themselves to do.[/aside] Yes honey, I’m totally playing with you.”
Ohhh, ankle fetish porn? That’s some damn sexy stuff!
I am choosing not to read that as a joke because 1) VICTORIAN ENGLAND!! And 2) uh, more skin than you’re thinking an Victorian porn is fucking raunchy. Check where the necklines fall on some of these — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1860s_in_Western_fashion
That’s exactly why those stories are so objectionable. The fact that the female lead has a superficial gloss of “see how fiesty she is! she dared to kick him in the head!” is used to make the rest of the story, where the male lead is a horrible person who treats her like shit, palatable, and a lot of people don’t even notice how her character actually goes along with a lot of the shitty stuff he does, or ask themselves why it’s OK that she ends up with him. I haven’t read the manga, but the TV adaptions are a clusterfuck of misogyny wrapped in “romance” and faux-empowerment.
And we haven’t even started on the flip side of the problem in, say, Playful Kiss, where if you’re a girl and you really like a boy who doesn’t seem to like you, don’t worry, if you just stalk him relentlessly then he’ll eventually fall for you too! (But he’ll still be the same manipulative asshole who pretends he’s going to refuse to register your marriage so it’s not really legal to make you study harder).
“So…wouldn’t that secretly make femdom porn with a male mangina sub the most alpha thing ever?”
Yeah, I think so. I know this topic has already been addressed and I know that I sound like a bi or gay person who’s active in the political or cultural realm and who, while inspecting hir natural (homophobic) opponents, says to hirself silently or aloud: “I swear some of these guys have gotta be so gay,” but I draw from the MRA obsession with this subject the conclusion that at least some of the men who are thus obsessed are probably into the thing they’re obsessed with. (But that’s just me.)
And why wouldn’t they be? We’re talking about a state of things in which women do most of the work while men receive most of the bennies. What’s for an MRA not to like? That’s their freakin’ wet dream, in more senses than one. Too bad they can’t name it and claim it.
For porn without a stomach-turning attitude… disclaimer in that I haven’t been to the site in years, so its tone may have changed considerably, but I used to have a pretty good impression of Burning Angel. Never saw any slurs used to describe its performers, and in many vids there was an emphasis on everyone involved having fun.
(I particularly recall one video in which the actors were joking around with a Spiderman mask before, uhm, getting into the action… it was pretty goofy and silly, but the sex was still, well, sexy, and it stood out because the emphasis seemed so clearly to be on “everybody here is having a great time.”)
So if you don’t mind (or enjoy) tattoos and piercings on your performers, maybe something to check out… (and my apologies in advance if it turns out that have changed by now.) It’s a pay site, but I believe they have free previews, plus hey, some vids may have found their way onto torrent sites and such… not that I would ever advocate such a thing!
Ha, I know where that little brand of stupid got started. And no, it was no less insulting, desperate, and dismissive to actual oppression the first time.
LOL that’s it exactly!
Plus, “Kid, it’s 100 in the shade, will you just sit DOWN.”
Cassandra, I’m so glad I came back to this thread. Boys Before Flowers has been repeatedly recommended to me as a thing to watch now that I’ve finished First Shop of Coffee Prince. I think I’ll be skipping it now.
Porn that’s not gross: I recently discovered a project called “Make Love Not Porn“, by a woman who realized that young people are getting or supplementing their sex education with porn, and wanted to offer people the chance to see non-actors having non-fictional sex (there are some porn actors involved with the project, but theoretically they’re not acting in these videos). I haven’t actually rented any of the videos yet, but the project sounds cool, so I thought I’d mention it.
Erotica/porn that’s not sexist and terrible: I’m currently obsessed with the Kushiel’s Legacy series by Jacqueline Carey. It’s an alternate-history/epic fantasy world where sex is holy in all forms, prostitution is a sacred calling, and all the gods are real - including YHVH and Jesus. MASSIVE trigger warnings for rape, but on the plus side, she doesn’t handwave the trauma away (and the second trilogy revolves around a male survivor). I’m trying not to fangirl too much, but yeah…the first trilogy was kind of my gateway into romance/erotica.
The only good things I can say about Boys Over Flowers (the Korean version) are as follows - lots of eye candy in the cast, soundtrack is decent (though there are two songs that you will be very tired of by the end), Lee MinHo is a very good actor (which unfortunately makes the character he’s playing even more problematic, because when he switches to charming mode it’s going to win over most viewers), and great clothes. There’s also a lot of what I can only describe as wealth porn - lingering shots of big expensive houses containing lots of fancy stuff, name-dropping of labels, constant reminders of how much things cost - that I found incredibly tacky, but that judging by the success of shows like Dynasty some people really enjoy as a vicarious sort of thing.
BTW, have you seen any of the Coffee Prince parodies? Some of them are pretty funny.
Also, SPOILERS FOLLOW
Trigger warning for anyone who decides to watch it - there’s an incident of animal cruelty in episode 7 that I found quite upsetting (a horse being raced to the point of permanent injury).
@CassandraSays:
I hated a lot of things about the Boys over Flowers manga (the parents, the male lead, that it went on waaaay too long) but I liked how it ended: All the cast finished high school and went on with their lives. The heroine and the male lead even on different continents. With some melancholy over “what will we feel when we meet again?”… I really hoped they both will grow out of it. :]
In the TV version she waits for him for several years, with the other dude still pining for her, and then they get married.
Is his mother awful in the manga too? Because in the TV version she’s pretty much the worst potential in-law you could ever hope to avoid.
The manga ends with high school ending. Also the other dude goes to explore the world, but he is already in “love” (it’s not the right word, if I remember correctly it’s closer to friends with benefits) with a different girl.
…Except if the TV version mixed him with the girl’s best friend who actually confesses on the prom, but that came completely out of the blue. If there was foreshadowing I didn’t see it so it looked like a cruel joke.
As far as I remember… his mother is quite awful in the manga too.
Not above using her power to take revenge on one of the friends of the girl, who had literally nothing to do with the whole thing… same guy I mentioned earlier. It’s hard to be a side character in a shoujo manga.
There’s no male best friend in the Korean TV version, just the secondary guy from the group of 4 who’s in love with her, so I think they combined the two characters. Also, since this was made for a Korean audience, no friends with benefits, no sex at all really, other than the one guy whose promiscuity is supposed to be a sign of his deep emotional wounds or some shit like that. She has a female best friend in the that version, who ends up with the one guy who actually gets to have sex from the group of 4, who’s spent most of the series insulting her by talking about how un-hot she is and how much she looks like a child.
I find the whole “if they fight constantly it means that they have the hots for each other” trope so incredibly childish.
It’s also disturbing in that it normalizes abuse. Abuse can often contain screaming in anger from both sides, it doesn’t have to be one person who’s 100 % the submissive victim. And that kind of situation, where both people to some extent engages in the fights, gets normalized when fights are treated as a sign of PASSION rather than a sign that something’s wrong.
Yeah, and I’ve seen people say the reason they prefer to see the female lead end up with the abusive guy is that the relationship is more “passionate” and if the guy was nice to her all along that would be boring. Which is just sad. Plus people really buy into the idea that you can change a cold, mean-spirited man into a kind, loving one, and that doing so means you’re super mega awesome, which is a really dangerous idea to be teaching young people.
BTW, before anyone thinks I’m ragging on Korean TV dramas in general, here’s an example of a mini-drama that I thought was done well (ie. it’s cute and funny, not depressing, partly because it’s mocking the over the top ridiculousness of some of the romance dramas).
One of the weirdest relationship tropes I see is the idea that men and women exist in completely separate spheres with zero overlapping interests, and every day is a battle to trick your partner/spouse into doing things like ‘letting’ you go to the pub or seeing a ‘chick flick’.
I mean you don’t have to live in each other’s pockets but you would think there is at least ONE thing that these couples enjoy doing together.
That one always makes me wonder why anyone would marry someone they have nothing in common with, who they have to lie to about even the simplest things. The rate of overlap between belief in that trope and miserable marriages where both partners quietly seethe with resentment towards each other seems to be rather high.
Well… this is kind of weird. In the manga the main couple is almost the only one not having sex.
Yey, If memory serves yet another combined character: Tsukushi’s female best friend and the womanizer’s childhood “girl next door”. … Or they blew something way out of proportion.
He doesn’t end up with either of them.
He misses an important appointment with the girl next door because of his “whoring ways”… after which she leaves him for good. And he has a one night stand with the female best friend after which they part amicably. But really, that’s it.
It’s also an “in” for the argument that ‘I only get so angry because I love you so much’. Which is bullshit squared.
Anger is never a sign of love. It might be a consequence of strong feelings , which just might have their origin in love. (Think parents reacting to a child who’s been “missing”, but really lost track of time playing in trees or whatever. Relief once they’re found might be followed by anger at the child being so thoughtless.)
But a person who feels or displays anger is showing anger, not love. Someone who thinks that anger is the right way to show strong feelings has at least a limited emotional vocabulary, at worst a propensity to be angry and then to look for ways to excuse that anger.
I yelled at my step-son the other day because when I was picking him up from school he was running across the street willy-nilly. He’s supposed to cross the street where there is a crossing guard and walk down the street to the car. He was later than usual coming to the car and then I saw him running across the street - he had been to the other side for no apparent reason. And there was a car coming. So I asked him “why did you do that?” And he said “I just felt like it.” So I kinda went off on him. I yelled “the reason I’m yelling is because you scared the crap out of me!” And then I calmed down and apologized for yelling.
Maybe I have limited emotional vocabulary. But, ya know, I’m human. And humans get angry sometimes.
I just re-read that last bit and I didn’t mean it to sound as snarky as it did. I do yell too much. It’s something I’m working on.
The problem that we were discussing was people who think that outbursts of anger and constant fighting are signs that a romantic relationship is super awesome and meant to be. As in, this means your relationship is better than one in which people get along well, and the fighting means you have a crush on each other, like when a boys pulls a girl’s pigtails to get her attention in kindergarden. Not the occasional emotional outburst because you were scared that your kid was about to get themselves killed.
I do think that it’s usually a good idea to try talking rather than yelling if you can when communicating with children, but yelling at kids because they gave you a fright is really not the same issue as “he calls her stupid and ugly and she calls him spoiled and selfish and they never stop fighting, so it must be true love”.
@CassandraSays. Right, I gotcha. Sorry to turn it into an “all about me” thing.
I feel like the “it’s because I love you” thing is one of those lies that seems to work so well because it contains a nugget of truth. I think people do tend to have stronger feelings when they involve someone we care about. But it’s completely twisted to excuse/justify abusive and bullying behavior that isn’t really love at all.
I love how they assume that male feminists are feminists because they want to get some pussy. It’s like they can’t imagine why men would have any interest in the rights of women…except as a vehicle for getting laid. It kind of seems like projection, in a way, seeing as that’s the only reason why they would interact with a woman.
So Cassandra kinda already said it, but having an asshole father…
The difference is your kid getting yelled at for risking his life isn’t going to wonder if this time doing homework with the TV on will get him screamed at, or if being three minutes past curfew will result in a screaming fit or a “oh, there you are”…yelling cuz you’re afraid for his life is consistent, abusive assholery often isn’t.
FTR, the one and only time I’m okay with spanking is if they were doing something that risked serious injury (unless, of course, yelling gets the point across) — I’m fine with conditioning kids that trying to eat bleach or running in the street results in a sore backside, cuz it’s a better lesson than it resulting in getting hit by a car. And I really hope I’m not about to start the spanking debate >.<
No worries, I just figured it might be confusing if you missed the earlier part of the (rather long) conversation.
“Because I love you” can totally go either way. For example, trying to talk your kid out of marrying someone who you can clearly see is covered in giant red flags? Understandable, though you do have to know when to back off. Trying to talk your kid into taking a virginity pledge and handing Dad her symbolic vagina in a box with a key? Um, no, I don’t care how much you love her, that’s not OK. Trying to talk your girlfriend/wife out of taking a cool new job/going out for drinks with her friends/going on vacation without you because it’s too “dangerous” or “beyond her capabilities”? That’s “I say these things because I love you” used as an excuse to be a controlling, abusive asshole.
@ Argenti
The one and only time I was spanked as a kid was when I went off to play at a friend’s house, didn’t tell my parents where I was going, and didn’t get back till about midnight. I was about 7 or so? My parents were absolutely terrified, and while I still think a calm explanation of why what I’d done would have sufficed, I can’t say I really blame them for freaking out. Though, again, seeing how scared they were was a far more effective deterrent against doing it again than either the spanking or the yelling.
Yeah I figure it depends on the kid, their age, etc. Like, when my cousin’ solidest was maybe 2 or 3 she chomped on her mother’s leg. My cousin, in that “ow that hurt!” tone, came out with “we do not bite mommy!”, worked like a charm (and, since smart ass pecunium had to ask, no, she did not just bite someone else)
*cousin’s oldest
And having talked that girl out of bringing home a free kitten cuz it’d make grandma mad and we don’t want to make grandma mad now do we? Yeah, she’s the sort lecturing works like a charm on (she’s also gotta be about 13 now and any of these PUA assholes…*screams*)
THIS.
It’s like… there’s this idea that normally, when you hang out with other people, you understand each other perfectly and have everything in common, so when you find someone with whom you have nothing in common that’s really rare and interesting and exceptional, and you’ll fall madly in love. And staying completely disconnected from each other is what keeps things interesting.
And I just don’t get it. Isn’t it really commonplace and happens constantly that you meet people with whom you have nothing in common? Isn’t the super awesome thing to meet someone who does understand you? I guess you can say me and husband had a pretty “passionate” love affair in that we became a couple and then started planning our wedding after only a few months, completely convinced that we’d met our soulmate and were made for each other. But that’s because we so absolutely clicked - we discovered that we thought alike, felt alike, liked the same stuff and basically had everything in common.
I get really bored around people who I have nothing in common with. What is there to talk about? It’s awkward, and dull. I mean, I can always make conversation if I have to, but it’s effort, and it’s so much more fun when the conversation flows effortlessly.
The first conversation I had with Mr C lasted about 7 hours - we were initially just going to have a cup of coffee together, but we were having so much fun talking that coffee turned into dinner and dinner turned into drinks and now, more than 15 years later, we still haven’t run out of things to talk about.
Yeah, I’m the same with BoyFantastic. We’re eerily similar. And we live together and both work from home and share all our friends and put on gigs together in our spare time. Some people ask us if we get sick of each other but honestly, we don’t. Why would we? He’s my best bud and I enjoy his company. Even when we’ve been working right next to each other all day, cooked dinner together and then stayed up chatting, we can still end up rambling away to each other until the wee small hours. The idea of having to share a house with a man who hated everything I liked so much so that even watching TV becomes a debate… doesn’t appeal.
No, but I think I need to.
There are multiple versions (having boy bands parody romance dramas is kind of a thing), but I think this was the first.
They did Princess Hours too, if you’ve seen that one.
O_O
Count me among the “wft?” reactions to that. I’ve never heard that trope. Also in hating talking to people I’ve nothing in common with; boring and I don’t know what to say, since I’m not that good at faking interest in things.
When Louis and I are at Home we’re always doing stuff together, or just hanging out in the house, or talking. We like being together whether we’re talking or not. We’ve picked up hobbies from each other, when they weren’t already the same ones. I started knitting on this side entirely as a result of the relationship. (Speaking of which, the great striped jacket is finished - links are on the September open thread.)
It makes me wonder what else they do for fun, you know? Do they make a habit of seeking out situations where they’ll be bored or annoyed?
Oh, wait, I think I just figured out where this trope intersects with the MRM.
It mostly amuses me, but it’s also annoying. Like, hey, I’ve been openly doing this feminism thing for two years and I’ve been single the whole time (just haven’t met someone I clicked with since my ex)… do they think I wouldn’t have noticed that my plan was failing if that was it? Or do they assume that I’ve deluded myself into thinking I’m rolling around in Labialand right now?