“Many feminists love rape” Another gem from Reddit
According to some MRAs, this guy doesn't care about rape
Ugh. No jokes this time, just an appalling little exchange on Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit. First, a Redditor called xbyiu offers some unsolicited, and pretty pig-ignorant, thoughts about SlutWalks. The basic thesis:
Personally, I think a lot of feminists just don’t care about rape victims. They’d much rather see women as a whole being a victim of the patriarchy and fight against that sort of abstract idea then deal with the reality of rape, which can be fought against with simple tips on how to protect yourself.
Hold on; it gets worse.
To this the r/mr regular EvilPundit replied (in a comment that, last I checked, had gotten three times more upvotes than downvotes):
I’d go even further, and say that many feminists love rape. For them, it’s a perfect way to demonise men in general.
If rape didn’t exist, feminism would invent it. In fact, feminism does invent a lot of rape, with its imaginary statistics such as “1 in 4″, and so on.
In other words, feminists don’t really want to prevent rape. But most rape is imaginary. So feminists are trying to not prevent something that doesn’t much happen anyway. Brilliant.
A note on the “1 in 4” thing: EvilPundit’s insinuation that it’s an “imaginary statistic” is a common MRA talking point. It’s not imaginary, but it’s not quite accurate either. The one-in-four number comes from a study conducted in the 80s by researcher Mary Koss: based on a detailed survey of college women, she found that roughly one in four of her respondent had been a victim of rape or attempted rape since the age of 14. This is often simplified – and distorted – into “one in four female college students are raped while in college.”
In fact, Koss’ survey found that one in eight college women answering her survey, not one in four, had been the victim of completed rape. Other studies have reported numbers not far off from this. The National Violence Against Women Survey, for example, found that roughly one in six of female respondents reported being the victim of rape in their lifetime.
The fact that some people have misrepresented Koss’ study doesn’t mean that her findings are “imaginary.”
I’m not even sure why I’m writing all this, given that as a feminist I presumably don’t care at all about rape.
Pic above taken from here.
EDITED TO ADD: EvilPundit’s comment has gotten some downvotes since I posted this, but it still has more upvotes than downvotes.
Posted on October 6, 2011, in antifeminism, creepy, misogyny, MRA, rape, reddit, sluts. Bookmark the permalink. 465 Comments.
A sociopathic true believer in fatality-inducing blood magic like Countess Bathory would be unbelievably dangerous, a clumsy goth who knows he/she is not really a vampire, less so. The fetishists who wind up on cautionary television news specials about the kids’ dark secrets may actually believe in blood magic and believe themselves to be vampires, but don’t fatally drain their partners. Hence, if you’re a “vampire” and believe you actually have to drain your partners dead, Your Kink is Not OK. If you’re an actual supernatural vampire, I hope never to meet you.
After watching that movie I couldn’t get over the prettiness, and obsessively told my friends “they fight! And then THEY ARE ALL SWEATY AND TIRED AND HAVE A SMOKE TOGETHER argle bargle asljkfhsuinaw!”
I do think there are a few random weirdos in the vampire subculture that might be dangerous, but that’s true of any group. Many years of involvement with BSDM has helped to train me to spot the people who aren’t quite right in the head immediately, though, since adding sharp objects to the picture ups the risk factor.
What all of this has to do with the OP I’m still not sure.
Eh, now Bagelsan and I part ways. I’d rather skip the fighting and get right to the hot men lying around together naked part. You can’t say I’m not efficient!
Oh, it wasn’t the fighting, it was the totally unsubtle sharing a cigarette after strenuous physical activity together that I liked!
You know, now that I know you like homoerotic subtext as well as anime, I’m kind of amazed that I haven’t run into you in JRock circles yet, given that the crossover between people who like that kind of anime and manga and VK fans seems to be about 75%.
(Watch everyone else on manboobz have no fucking idea what I’m talking about.)
I think I have some idea. VK is Visual Kei, right? (Also, did I spell it correctly?)
Yes, and yes you did. That was unexpected.
I’ve got a few friends who were and/or still are into it.
Huh, small world. The guy I was interviewing yesterday makes costumes for a lot of the bigger bands (as well as a lot of other non-costume apparel).
That’s cool. I think a lot of the costumes involved can be pretty impressive, from what I’ve seen.
I have a lot of Visual Kei images on my computer but wouldn’t have instantly picked up on the acronym regardless. I’m waiting to use them in a The World Ends With You game I’m hoping to start when my home life gets somewhat less random.
The level of detailing is pretty cool. Most of that stuff is much too frilly and elaborate for my tastes, but you do have to admire the craftsmanship. Also, the designer gave me a shirt, and when I got home and tried it on it fit perfectly even though he never asked me what size I am or anything similar. Any designer who can determine fit that well just by eyeballing someone really knows their stuff.
It’s kind of weird, but I’m not super active in a lot of that stuff for some reason. I watch anime and read manga and fanfic, but otherwise I’m a lazy lazy fan. :p
I would have thought that fans of anime and homoerotic subtext would just gravitate towards yaoi and shounen-ai.
(By shounen-ai I’m referring to the more American meaning of “non-explicit,” not the, I am told, more Japanese meaning of “pedophilia.”)
That’s pretty amazing, Cassandra. And yeah, it’s completely impractical but even if it’s not something I think I could pull off it’s fascinating to look at.
Shit, I really need some sleep. Nice talking to all of you!
It makes sense to me that there’s crossover just because there’s so much VK that has an clearly homoerotic subtext, especially the stuff from the mid to late 90s, plus the focus on men as objects of desire in a very open and direct way in general. Plus a lot of VK bands have done anime soundtracks, so I guess anime fans get exposed to them that way.
There’s also some fetishy racist stuff going on too, though, hence my comment about how the female fans can be just as weird and socially inappropriate as male otaku sometimes. I’ve seen VK fans do stuff that’s just outrageously creepy in terms of how they relate to the bands in a way that I never see from young female fans at, say, emo or alterna shows with bands that are American or Euro.
I get that, but personally my overwhelming reaction to VK is “weird Japanese thing.” It’s just so flamboyant and over-the-top; I like my bishie guys (at least real-life ones) more all-natural.
I think the flamboyance is part of the appeal? I think for the ones who aren’t being fetishy and weird about it they just really love the whole over-the-top thing, and there aren’t very many bands in the US or Europe who have that kind of stage persona any more. It reminds me of flashy 70s glam rock in a way, like T Rex, Kiss, all that kind of stuff.
In all honesty I think that a lot of the music is crap (though again, the 90% of everything is crap rule applies to most genres), but I love androgynous men in eyeliner and flashy goth clothes, so I like some of the darker stuff from a visual pov. For me it’s the cutesy stuff that’s offputting, and any attempt to link cute and sexy tends to give me hives.
I’ve seen Fight Club, and Inglorius Basterds, and Moneyball, and I absolutely could not describe Brad Pitt. That may be why I’m not jealous.
Oldfeminist:
I suspect most straight/bi women are each only attracted to a relative handful of men, if only because each man is unique. I further suspect there’s overlap, and collectively women are attracted to pretty much all men.
Is that a low number? That’s around 33,000 women just in the Tel Aviv metropolitan area.
Eurosabra:
That sounds like a weird sort of tall-poppy self-loathing. “I really wanted to be poor but honest, but the quest for unavailable pussy has forced me to improve myself!”
I’d love to speak φ languages, even though it probably wouldn’t help me get laid.
Cassandra:
I see you’ve met Eurosabra.
Hold on here, Eurosabra:
So, you’re not normal:
You’re depressed, you’re an introvert, you’ve got a blue-collar background, and you disagree with what a lot of Americans believe about the politics of the Middle East.
That’s OK. But it means you’re not conventional.
But now you’re whining about how the women who want you aren’t normal either?
Fuck you.
What he failed to mention is that all the depressed girls only became that way after they had to put up with him for more than a minute. Poor bastards.
Eurosabra - nature’s antidote to Zoloft.
And yet despite being an anti-anti-depressant, he still somehow results in a decreased libido. Huh.
“Lithe”? Seriously, “lithe”? Eurosabra, you gotta lay off those old Seinfeld tapes.
The side effects of Eurosabra include depression, lowered sex drive, and apparently death by fake vampire.
*thinks back to times of untreated depression* Hmm, maybe he means “lithe” as in “draped bonelessly over a couch all day doing nothing”? Hawt.
Eurosabra should only be used while under supervision by a medical professional. Not to be combined with fun, affection, or high self esteem.
Do not take Eurosabra if you are pregnant, have children, have a uterus, have a vagina, are a woman, like women, have a pulse, enjoy life, or plan on enjoying life in the future. Ask your doctor if Eurosabra is right for you, if you suspect your doctor might fucking hate your guts.
*low, fast talking* Eurosabra is trademarked to Douchebag Pharmaceuticals Inc., a subsidiary of Fuckyou Co. Eurosabra is not recommended for anyone. All claims regarding positive effects of Eurosabra have been validated by the FDA if by “validated” you mean “they laughed in our faces.” If you experience weight gain or increased butchness please contact the office of Idon’twanttodateyou and ask to speak to the hand.
Actually most of them had their depression improve markedly during their involvement with me. And I am a bit of an ass, but no more than the vast majority of women with whom I deal. I just think you need a better class of PUA around here. Obviously, encouraging dependency on the part of potential partners is unhealthy. But whenever I’m not running the show, I’m scenery, just not exciting enough.
And really, living with a depressed partner who is not responding to medication and doesn’t have the insurance wiggle room to try too many alternatives before the limits are reached is terrifying. It’s a form of terror that arose in most of my relationships. I’m a near-Bolshevik for a reason. And I do enjoy the warning-label snark.
“And I am a bit of an ass, but no more than the vast majority of women with whom I deal.”
And again, herein lies your problem. Why do you choose to hang out with women who are assholes, Eurosabra?
People who enjoy vampire play don’t play with real vampires, or play for real. As Eurosabra said, “if you’re a “vampire” and believe you actually have to drain your partners dead, Your Kink is Not OK. If you’re an actual supernatural vampire, I hope never to meet you.”
My whole point was that fantasy is NOT THE SAME as reality, so don’t go thinking that allowing women to have fantasies (about Brad Pitt and/or Edward Norton and/or vampires) means that these are their actual requirements for a partner.
Some men may not understand this, because they think being their fantasy partner is a realistic goal for women to attain and either reject or mock anyone who does not fit this fantasy mold.
Because the hot ones are interestingly demanding of power and status in men, almost invariably. I mean, I’ve noticed an actual glass ceiling effect where interest and friendliness act as a repellent to women, because your clothes and non-verbals aren’t pre-signaling enough status and dominance to get her interested in anything you might say. Women who are actually interested in meeting someone new have a distinctive vibe, even at events which are ostensibly about meeting new people. But then again I can actually circulate socially, if inconclusively.
Again, Eurosabra, your complaints are a function of the women you’re choosing to pursue. Unless someone is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to choose women who’re status obsessed, it’s your decision to do so that results in any angst you might feel about the whole process, so I’m not sure why you expect anyone else to sympathize. It’s a big world out there - if pursuing the people you’re currently pursuing is making you unhappy, then stop.
Also, the comment about clothes is odd. Stylistic choices definitely factor into which men I’m most interested, but it has nothing to do with power or status and everything to do with physical attraction and subcultural affiliations. So if a woman doesn’t want to talk to you because she hates your outfit, well, maybe she’s just really into fashion and you have no style, or maybe she’s looking for labels, in which case once again we’re back to the fact that you’re making some rather questionable dating decisions.
Or every woman I meet in every context here is like that, because The Cake Is A Lie.
I think Eurosabra sounds more like an artificial sweetener for your low-cal soda. Eurosabra: He’s not for women.
So someone is holding a gun to your head and preventing you from moving? Have the evil women who like alphas stolen your passport?
Not that I believe that every single woman you’re meeting (you’re where exactly? LA perhaps?) is like that anyway. What I’m getting from all your comments is the tale of an insecure man who likes to externalize his anxieties and try to hold other people responsible for them, with a side order of sexist stereotypes and a yearning to be the sort of man who you think women want. It’s kind of pathetic, honestly.
Eurosabra is forgetting the fantastic rule of “the only thing in common between all your failed relationships is you”… Maybe women aren’t terrible, you are?
I prefer to think of it as a sign that they’re broken, but perhaps (due to things I’m not about to reveal here) I’m a bit more flexible and better-adjusted (at least behaviorally, my state of mind is my issue) than appears here in text.
Oh, wait, Eurosabra’s in Los Angeles, where the 2% of women who dig him gives him a mere 177,850 to choose from.