The ugly diva crisis … solved! Comments Feed" href="http://manboobz.com/2011/01/17/the-ugly-diva-crisis-solved/feed/"/>

>The ugly diva crisis … solved!

>

She’s out of your league, pal!

You may recall a little ditty from days gone by called “If you wanna be happy.” The song, the one hit of one-hit-wonder Jimmy Soul, was a song with a message for men in love. That message? Well, if my mere mentioning of the song hasn’t already gotten it stuck in your head, let me remind you of its basic thesis:

If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life
Never make a pretty woman your wife
So from my personal point of view
Get an ugly girl to marry you

Why is this? Well, put simply, pretty women are entitled bitches who will ruin your life and break your heart, while ugly women will be so grateful for your attention that they’ll treat you well and prepare meals in a timely fashion:

A pretty woman makes her husband look small
And very often causes his downfall
As soon as he married her and then she starts
To do the things that will break his heart

But if you make an ugly woman your wife
A-you’ll be happy for the rest of your life
An ug-a-ly woman cooks meals on time
And she’ll always give you peace of mind

By “piece of mind,” I believe Mr. Soul is referring to “blowjobs.”

But, alas, this simple formula for male happiness has been rendered ineffective. And it’s all the fault of evil manginas. A fellow called Lincoln, posting on NiceGuy’s MGTOW forum, reports that these dastardly woman-worshipping half-men have upset the old order by actively pursuing ugly women and making them think they’re all that. The horror! All this mangina attention has given

even the most ugliest man faced mountain beasts [an] overinflated sense of their own self-importance, and the net result is the most repulsive, vile, and ill-tempered skanks you could ever meet. Even now I can’t understand it, I can’t even look at these women much less want to bang them, but there it is. It’s already a given that the really attractive ones will of course behave the same way, but if even the ugliest ones behave like prima donnas, who’s left?

It seems an unsolvable dilemma. But Lincoln believes he’s found a way out: amputees.

The ideal is to find a beautiful woman that no mangina wants. it’s possible, but they usually have some kind of trait that puts men off for sometimes the fucking stupidest reason. One example was this one armed woman I knew of once. She had lost her arm in a car accident, and she was the sweetest, most kindest girl you could have met, but for some reason guys weren’t lining up the door for her. Stupid. If I ran across her again I wouldn’t hesitate to ask her out.

Love will always find a way.

If you now need to get “If you wanna be happy” out of your head, this ought to do it:

-

If you enjoyed this post, would you kindly* use the “Share This” or one of the other buttons below to share it on Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, or wherever else you want. I appreciate it.

*Yes, that was a Bioshock reference.

Posted on January 17, 2011, in evil women, I'm totally being sarcastic, manginas, men who should not ever be with women ever, MGTOW, Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink. 124 Comments.

  1. >D: “You are talking about 000.2 of the female population regarding women who could be gold diggers.”Actually, according to this article, it went from 20% of women in 1949 to 40% in 1991. I’m sure it’s approaching 60% or higher now, though that is a hypothesis.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8237298/What-women-really-want-to-marry-a-rich-man.htmlDavid: “You realize that on MRA/MGTOW sites it is ALWAYS the other way around.”“Always”? That is a pretty bold thing to say, to claim that MRA’s “always” (AKA, all MRA’s) blame the woman. We’ll ignore the fact that feminists have been doing the exact same thing for 40 years now and look at just one recent case, Elaine Campione. (google it), where she murdered her own daughters, confessed to it on tape, confessed to doing it to hurt her ex husband, on tape, had her own mother testify that she was abusive, had been hospitalized for breakdowns and dangerous behaviour 3 times previous… but because the day after she killed her children, and had time to think about it, she recorded another tape accusing her ex of domestic abuse (despite them being divorced about 4 years, and again, her own mother testifying that she was abusive), and never having that substantiated in court (in fact, police were unable to corroborate the accusations), the feminist educated judge (Judge Stong) openly stated that the children would likely still be alive if it was not for the abusive husband… Thank god a jury was responsible for this woman’s sentencing and not him. There are ample cases of men being blamed for their own victimization, such as this one, of a woman walking free, no harm done, after killing her boyfriend, who started off asleep on the steps before being physically attacked by her (http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/case+fuels+debate+over+domestic+violence/4051267/story.html ), or the man who was burned to death when his wife tried to immolate his penis. Men are routinely blamed by feminist educated judges (and the women who KILL them) for their own victimization, I’d call that a hell of a lot more damaging to social justice then a handful of guys on their personal blogs.I’ve noticed this on both MRA and feminist sites, you are willing to damn the other for actions your own side are also guilty of… the distinct difference is, feminists have been doing it for far longer, and are doing it in far more influential places. Let who is without sin throw the first stone.Booboo: “Well I find it a pretty lame suggestion that I should not express what assholes these guys are in the post. “Because you’re no better. You’re as hate filled, angry, dismissive and offensive as the people you claim to be railing against. You don’t seem to get the concept of damning all MRA’s for what a few of them have said is no different then MRA’s damning all feminists for what some have said and done, instead, you make a drastic generalization, based on David’s choice to pick the worst of the worst, of what all MRA’s are like, and act accordingly. Perhaps you also find it acceptable to assume you are no different then Andrea Dworkin (particularly given your level of hate and anger)?

  2. >I've noticed that the MRAs here never actually refute anything. They just go, "Nuh-uh! We don't do that! Like, .002 of MRAs do that! But all Feminists do!!" So basically, "DON'T GENERALIZE MRAS!! GENERALIZE FEMINISTS!!"If your only response is, "But women …" then you might as well not respond. I've never heard a woman say that women should stop dating short, bald, fat guys because it makes their self-esteem too high and then they'll suddenly start thinking they don't have to develop any other personality traits. And there are plenty of women who fall for guys who, in my opinion, look a little trollish. Not because they're wealthy gents, but because that's the kind of guy they like. But if a woman rejects that short, fat, bald guy, we're called shallow bitches. Even if he doesn't have any other personality traits to make him interesting. Whereas the MRAs all want to date the hottest women possible, but that's not perceived as shallow. No siree. I'm in an odd place, personally. I've never had a desire to marry or date because I have far better things to do with my time. I'm considered fairly attractive, so I get attention from men, but I'm just not interested in relationships. And then I get to hear how I'm such a stuck-up bitch because I say I'm not interested when they ask me out. As if I'd said, "LOWLY PEON, HOW DARE YOU SPEAK TO ME??" rather than, "No, thank you, I'm not interested." The argument used is usually that *they* are attracted to *me* and therefore I should want to go out with them. Logic fail, but this is what I keep hearing. I keep being told that my wants and desires are meaningless. The fact that I don't (and have never) dated in my life, the fact that I don't want to be married, the fact that I may not even find the guy attractive-these all do not matter because they want to get into MY underthings, and that's all that matters. But how dare those women feel empowered to say "No!" How dare they reject sincere advancements! How dare they get a little rude after the 15th guy has bothered her in one day! Stuck-up bitch! She was an ugly dyke anyway!

  3. >@chocomintlipwaxI doubt all these guys want to have a relationship with someone who by their own definition is nothing but a one night stand/booty call. Stop making thing up.Random Brother

  4. >Richard-Choco answered you quite well and you choose to insult her.Great effort to foster a real conversation there.As for my comment-you are reading way too much into it. I suppose I should admit fault into reading too much into yours but that is kind of hard to do since I also have read your other comments. The fact is that IF a woman wants to attract a mate, yes doing some things that might make her more attractive might help. But then she reverts to her normal self and the guy gets mad because he wanted the fake version, not the real version.Same goes with a woman, although I think women tend to be more forgiving a male failing to maintain attract a woman standards.

  5. >Choco: “I've noticed that the MRAs here never actually refute anything.”Perhaps it is because we actually agree with what David is making fun of, just not the general perception that it is representative of, or even common amongst MRA’s. And as an example, I will point to your very own words…Choco: “But if a woman rejects that short, fat, bald guy, we're called shallow bitches. Even if he doesn't have any other personality traits to make him interesting. Whereas the MRAs all want to date the hottest women possible, but that's not perceived as shallow. No siree. “Let me repeat that:Choco: “…the MRAs ALL want… “Yes, you said “ALL”, you have attributed the desires of the person or people making the original post David quoted as being representative of all MRA’s. This is not rational, any more then it is rational to believe all feminists think all (again, the absolute “all”) men are rapists, even when performing consensual sex. You need to realize that David isn’t taking typical posts by MRA’s and displaying them, he is taking the most hateful examples, of which feminists have plenty themselves (look at Andrea Dworkin), and shinning a focus on them as if they are representative… and while he may not specifically be suggesting that these things are representative of all, or even many, MRA’s, there is a certain implication in his method, an implication that gets clearly absorbed by his readers, and becomes prevalent in their own posts and attitudes, such as most posts by Booboo or even your post here accusing “all” MRA’s of being shallow and only wanting the hottest women, and by all, you are stating an absolute which also includes the gay MRA’s. Many of us are replying simply to quash the perception that this is representative of even a substantial portion of MRA’s. This is no different then feminist trying to distance themselves from the SCUM Manifesto.Choco: “I keep being told that my wants and desires are meaningless.”This is precisely what the MRA , and men in general, are experiencing every day they try to get their concerns out. The feminist movement had nothing like the opposition that men are experiencing, and it makes some men bitter, very bitter.Elizabeth: “Richard-Choco answered you quite well and you choose to insult her.”Where did he insult her? Was it perhaps when he said “stop making things up, such as her claim that “ALL” MRA’s are shallow and driven on looks alone?Elizabeth: “But then she reverts to her normal self and the guy gets mad”Richard suggested self improvement (of ether gender seeking to improve potential for relations), not simply a mask. his suggestions were (generally) more long term.

  6. >@magdelyn:"That's me without make-up."What are you trying to do - make me feel funny in the pants!?

  7. >Now the standard apparently is for a guy to look like Brad Pitt (yuck!)Oh hell, I'm with you on that one!! My taste leans more towards Jeff Goldblum.

  8. >"The fact that there are far more fat MEN than there are fat women on TV shows that fat men are more socially acceptable than fat women."There are billions of BBW appreciation web sites, how many appreciate big men? There are dating websites that revolve around BBWs. How many are like this for big men? There are BBW beauty pageants, are there any for big men?The irony!

  9. >The idea that women only like alphas etc., etc., is patently ridiculous. Reasonable men and women like and love people with whom they connect. I am a thin, blonde, successful, well-educated woman, cohabiting with a caring, intelligent, much lower-income fat man. Were we put in "leagues," I would probably be way out of his, but the point of a feminist relationship is that we love and respect each other for who we are, not how we look or what we earn. We bond over a mutual love of sci fi, love of camping and the outdoors, and dreams of one day having our own hobby-farm, etc.

  10. >wytchfinde555 and Kratch:Seeing fat men on tv means that men are "allowed" to be fat in society. Not seeing fat women on tv means women are not "allowed" to be fat in society simply because they are not shown in our media. You hardly ever see fat women in relationships on television (I can only think of the beautiful Molly from Mike and Molly.) But fat men are abundant in relationships with "beautiful" women. Unfortunately fat men are all portrayed pretty much one way- as fools, but at least they are seen at all. Fat women are not portrayed as "super models and super heroines" they're simply not seen.

  11. >"Are online Dating Criteria Sexist?""According to these newly updated guidelines, PlentyofFish matches women to men with equal or greater income and equal or greater height. Because heaven forbid we outearn our partners. And heaven forbid anyone ever have sex with a short guy.Furthermore, the site's newly posted matching criteria makes the odd claim that it thinks users should be sharing certain experiences for the first time (so, like, if I've never tried anal, are they only going to match me with men who have similarly never tried anal? Because two people have never had anal sex trying to have anal sex sounds like a recipe for disaster) which sounds a little bit like they're saying that people should have similar levels of sexual experience in order to be matched up, or have no sexual experience at all, which is another kind of fucked-up way of assuming to know what people's romantic preferences might be.On one hand, there are plenty of women (ladyfish?) who prefer to date men who are older, or taller, or richer, or all three, and that's just fine, but where this gets annoying is where the site decides that all women want the same things from romantic partners. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that a diverse population of women has a diverse population of needs and wants, and it's insulting to insist that we're homogeneous. Now who wants to go shopping for shoes and eat some yogurt while talking about ways to trick our old rich husbands into impregnating us and/or buying us things?!?Read more: http://jezebel.com/5735069/is-online-dating-sites-matching-criteria-sexist#ixzz1BQRarMnD"

  12. >From Hugo Schwyzer, a male feminist:"Heat doesn’t require beauty: on “bowflex boy”, monogamy, and desire""In my post, I wrote of being a college boy with an average and not particularly impressive physique who found himself having sex one night with a friend, Debbie, who had a poster of a stunningly perfect man hanging right over her bed. In post-coital conversation, I had asked why she (we had never hooked up before) would want to be with me when she had this flawless vision to look at. From the original post, Debbie’s words:“Hugo, I like looking at beautiful bodies. He’s a gorgeous guy. But the fact that I think it’s beautiful, even the fact that I am attracted to the image, doesn’t mean that that is the only kind of man I can be attracted to…I can appreciate perfection without expecting it, and I can really be just as attracted to a normal body as to a perfect one.”I wasn’t insulted. I was relieved. And it occurred to me, of course, that that was how I thought about my partners as well. I liked looking at sculpted, idealized bodies — but that was hardly the limit of what I was attracted to. As in so many areas of life, it’s helpful to think in terms of a spectrum of people to whom we could be attracted. The media offers us images we may or may not find beautiful, but they tend to offer us only a narrow slice of that spectrum. What we can want and what we do want is broader than we’re told."

  13. >nicko81m:BBW "appreciation" websites are usually just porno sites. And when it comes to dating, look up BHM, or Big Handsome Man on any one of those dating sites and you'll find that it's just as much for them.Men don't usually participate in beauty pageants, but I totally encourage you to do so. And fat girl beauty pageants are mocked for the most part. A fat woman, today, would never win Miss America or anything. Not that I think beauty pageants are wonderful things for women to do, I really don't.

  14. >ScareCrow: The picture is actually from a Twilight Zone episode back in the day. A lady is in the hospital getting plastic surgery to fix her hideous face. It's called "Eye of the Beholder." Good episode.

  15. >But if a woman rejects that short, fat, bald guy, we're called shallow bitches. Even if he doesn't have any other personality traits to make him interesting. Whereas the MRAs all want to date the hottest women possible, but that's not perceived as shallow. No siree.You reminded me of one of my posts within this thread:"But (and this is not directed at anyone in particular) don't condemn most women for being vain, shallow, manipulative creatures while soundly denying similar traits among most men, especially when you've just listed those similar traits that are shared among most men (as vagrantsvoice pointed out, gamers would say that men are attracted to one thing, and one thing only: physical appearance) … that's a portion of what makes me unsupportive of most MRAs and the MRM, not my "inner man-hater". I do not accept that male shallowness is somehow far more noble than female shallowness."

  16. >DUHHH UH - DERRR - UHHH - DUHHH TANKS LEXEEEEDIIEEDUH UHM DUH, UHM DOH - KAY.

  17. >LexieDi Fat men get mocked too. What's your point? A fat man would never win the most sexy guy award in America.Even if a beauty pageant attempted to take place for fat men, it would not happen. It would get more ridicule than BBWNot that I am fat, I am skinny, but I can see straight through the BS when women express that fat women have it harder then fat men. I see it totally the other way around.There are countless dating websites out there that appreciate BBWs. I hardly see such websites that focus on big men

  18. >@Elizabeth:One more data point, I have a strong preference for solidly built men with facial hair. Especially if they possess a mechanical aptitude.

  19. >"Seeing fat men on tv means that men are "allowed" to be fat in society."—LexieDiApparently, you haven't been paying close attention to the BBW/Goddess/diva stuff lately. It's judgmental to not accept overweight women but men are still mocked for potguts or being simply not in shape. Nicko is right. And fat men don't get the hot woman—period. Years ago there was a reality TV show for Average Joe 2 and the chef was overweight. He got axed from the program quickly—gorgeous women almost NEVER date overweight men unless they have a mammoth bank account(s), social prestige, and a never ending amount of charisma. Even that is no promise; people typically graviate towards others of similar attractiveness physically. That's life. I can tell everyone this much—when I was almost reed thin and pale skinned I might as well have been part of the wall. Now that I work out 3-4 times a week and eat healthy, I may not be Adonis but women do notice me. A lot more.If you don't think appearance doesn't count with women, you are in denial, naive, or have much to learn.

  20. >"The media offers us images we may or may not find beautiful, but they tend to offer us only a narrow slice of that spectrum. What we can want and what we do want is broader than we’re told." —HugoHe should talk. He's a confessed ex-womanizer and someone that had his share of decent looking women, I'm sure. But he can play the Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder card and condemn others who don't have that view.

  21. >Everyone: There were a couple of pretty substantive comments caught in the spam filter that I just unblocked; if you've been following the discussion here you might want to scroll up and read them.

  22. >Why should fat men get the hot chicks?

  23. >Outside of t.v of course that teaches them that somehow they deserve them.

  24. >ScareCrow: You're the one who asked. And I was perfectly respectful in giving you an informative answer.Nicko and Wytch:I didn't say fat men don't get mocked. They do. However the threshold for what is an acceptable size is higher for men than it is for women. Just because fat women have banded together (along with some men)to stand up and proclaim that our bodies are perfect as they are- fat or not doesn't mean that fat women aren't harassed daily. My brother's fatter than I am but I'm the one who gets food thrown at me and yelled at from cars. Even my little brother knows that, in general, fat women have it harder than fat men.My boyfriend's fat and he's got me and I'm hot. Sooo.. yeah, fat men do get hot women.Did I say looks don't count with women? No. I said that fat men are at least represented in the media where as fat women hardly ever are.Nicko: I'm sorry, but I don't see how you have much of a standing in an argument about fatness if you're not fat. I've been fat my whole life and have been around my brother who has been fat his whole life and he and I discuss the differences in treatment all the time. You have an opinion but you have little to no experience to back it up.Unfortunately, the pressure on men to be thinner is growing, but that pressure has been on women for a very long time. None of it is good and we should all be allowed to be who we are without ridicule.

  25. >Kave: Why shouldn't fat men get "hot" women? Why shouldn't fat women get "hot" men? Why does it matter who "gets" who? It's supposed to be about caring and love.

  26. >@LexieDi - magdelyn already told me it was her without her makeup on.You're obviously jealous that YOU don't look that good.And please stop undressing me with your eyes.

  27. >Kratch-read her comment again and then his. See the insult there? Anyway, long term self improvements do not stick if all you are doing is trying to achieve a short term goal. Once the goal is achieved, there is no reason to keep going at it.

  28. >Hide-ewww! I cannot stand facial hair! You can have all the men with facial hair.

  29. >OK, let's do a reality check here.Nobody gives a flying fuck who *you* think is attractive. By "you" I mean every single person in the world, including myself.Suppose I explained who I thought was attractive. How could that possibly matter to you, the reader? It's not like I'm some authority on that. And you aren't, either. In fact, no one is, even the self-appointed judges of appearance who decide who wins pageants and who gets on magazine covers.The only reason I can think of to share beauty standards in public is to sort strangers into beautiful and ugly. Which is something that has nothing to do with having friendships and relationships-you know, with people who aren't strangers, and who care what you think.For instance I have a friend (happily married, with kids) whose face looks like a movie monster, because when he was a kid someone threw battery acid in his face and it had to be reconstructed, and now he's blind and has a face made out of skin grafts. I love this guy, and he's a blast to hang out with, and crack jokes with, and talk about tech stuff, and I really couldn't care less if some random person who's not his wife thinks he's ugly and therefore doesn't want to be his friend. Because such a person would be a total asshole.

  30. >Scarecrow, I can't imagine why young, beautiful women would, instead of laughing, snap and yell at you when you make your "humorous [or so you think] and smart-ass" remarks, I really can't. Yet you say on your blog that that is typical for you. It must be because they prefer those sociopathic alpha thugs to a gentleman like you.

  31. >"But men get to express more of their humanity."Really? I can be anything from a girly girl to a tom-boy, and no one bats an eye. A woman can wear clothes which are masculine or feminine-other than a jock strap there are no clothes which are considered too male for women to wear. They can carry a bifold wallet or a purse. They can drive a truck, motorcycle, car, or any combination. They can work in any field without being shamed, from farming to fashion design. They can have relationships with each other and be physically and emotionally close with other women without being shamed. They can show emotion in public without being shamed. Men are demeaned and distained for any of the above.Men cannot wear women's clothes, cannot work in certain jobs, cannot have close relationships with other men, etc, without being shamed and ridiculed. Heck, driving a Prius or a scooter is considered unmasculine. Men have really not shed any of their gender roles while women have shed pretty much every gender role. Yes, much of that ridicule is by other men, just as gender roles for women were (and are in other countries) enforced by other women. There are people who still feel women have gender roles, but it is very possibly for a woman to live her whole life doing what she chooses and the gender roles do not effect her ability to work and have relationships. It is not so for men. They can and are fired from jobs and socially ostracized for something as simple as wearing a skirt.

  32. >"First of all, BQ, those mainstream media articles are reactionary and inaccurate. Their bottom line is always to urge women to forgo education and career lest men will be turned off by their success."Actually, their bottom line is to sell their product. It would be stupid for a business to encourage it's customers to make less money to buy their products. Where do you get these ideas from?

  33. >LexieBecause they don't. 10's mate with 10's 9's with 9's etc. 99% of the time. The problem is many 3 men expect and want 10 women. It really doesn't happen in real life and this makes them angry. I'm only posting numbers because that's what mra's do. I've never seen a number rating system on a feminist blog. As an off note I've been potrayed as a moderate mra on this site by members of the spearhaed. I'm not, I'm just a worried brother who watches their scihzophrenic brothers online activities and sometimes posts a moderate message. He won't read this blog because it doesn't justify his delusional thinking. So I can vent here about what I've endured for the last eight years. I'm also D, but I could not log into that account.

  34. >> Because they don't. 10's mate with 10's 9's with 9's etc. 99% of the time. The problem is many 3 men expect and want 10 women. It really doesn't happen in real life and this makes them angry. I'm only posting numbers because that's what mra's do. I've never seen a number rating system on a feminist blog.Another useful reality check.Reality. It's the only one we've got.

  35. >ScareCrow: I have a man that I don't have to undress with my eyes. But if it makes you feel better to believe I am objectifying you, then, by all means, have a nice dream about it or something.

  36. >Kane: My point is that I don't know why we have to have number ratings in the first place. To me, my boyfriend is a 10, but to the populace he may not be. What is a 10 changes from generation to generation and from person to person.

  37. >LexieMy wife and I are both in our late forties, we are both 10's in each others eyes. I feel that towards her, and I see it in her eyes and words everyday.Normal people know what you're trying to say.

  38. >If you are the same Kave that occasionally posts at The Spearhead, I have mentioned you at this blog as being a moderate MRA, assuming you were MRA due to being a member at Spearhead.I'd like to say that I am glad that you found this blog and I wish you well in trying to look out for your brother.

  39. >This pretty much sums up the fat men vs. fat women thing:FAT WIFEhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14DZsxgP_SE&feature=player_embedded

  40. >Pam.I am, and I am sorry that I gave the illusion of being an mra. At some point I will write about the mix of the mra and his history but at this point it's hard to put into words and not to blame individual posters who may be very well meaning in heart for whats happened in our family because of his illness.

  41. >Kave,Nothing to be sorry about, I just often wondered why such a level-headed guy (in my opinion, anyway) wanted to hang with the bunch who frequent that forum. I have never posted at that site, just lurk there on occasion to see what kind of nonsense some of them are spewing…laughed my ass off when you asked one of them how would it be possible for all the women to be on the front line when they were all in rape camps (same poster who advocated for rape camps was also wanting to put women on the front line).I, for one, would be interested in hearing about the mix of the MRA and his history, but I can understand and respect your difficulty in verbalizing it.

  42. >There's a difference in content to the advice given to men and women about changing themselves to attract the opposite sex.When men say they can't get a second date, they're told to brush their teeth, bathe, wear reasonably attractive clothing, think of interesting topics to discuss, be polite, and smile. These are all things you'd do if you wanted a date, a friend, a job, or a sale.When women say they can't get a second date, they're told to let the guy choose what to do, lose weight, wear sexier clothing, put on some lipstick, consider cosmetic surgery, don't be demanding, laugh at his jokes even if you don't think they're funny, don't try to seem too smart. Those are all things you'd do if you were a sex worker or slave.

  43. >Pam,It's funny because mra's say that women don't have a sense of humor but not one of them laughed at the whole "all women in sex camps" and on the font line thing. I'm glad someone got a chuckle out of it beside myself.Long story short my brother hears voices and he has gotten a lot of support of his voices in the mra community. I know people have to take people at their word online, I try to not be angry with the people who have told my schizophrenic brother that the voices in his head are real. But they have impeded his treatment not to mention cost our family literally hundreds of thousands of dollars. Perhaps we would have had to pay for boarding school for my niece and nephew; perhaps he would have neglected his treatment anyways, and perhaps his children and his ex partner would have lived in fear even if the mra weren’t there to support his delusions.In my brother’s mind: His wife left him for no reason and everyday attacks him.In reality: Baring marrying a man with diagnosed schizophrenia who was on meds at the time, and being a slightly hippie type who normally wouldn’t fit into our family she’s done pretty well. My brother has posted at length about the child support he has paid. He’s never paid a dime nor has the case ever gone to court. Our family has paid for his children since they were five-ish; we have also paid for him to not be homeless since again he went off his meds. In my brother’s mind: His daughter was a slut bitch just like her mother since she was twelve. He’s told me this repeatedly. In reality: His ex is a decent if not hippie type woman. His daughter is an absolute joy who just got married in November. A wedding that was hidden from him, as is her address. In my brother’s mind: His son has the same issues that he does. In reality: My nephew does not have schizophrenia hence he does not have his fathers view on women in general. My nephew like my niece has twice been subjected to life threatening incidents where my brother decided that if his kids would not live with him they would not live. Of course there are many more “In my brother’s mind”.Our family is very lucky. We have the resources to help these kids and my brother. But it’s hard to tell your brother it’s right that he’s in a mental locked facility when a couple of hundred of men and women online are telling him he’s the victim. I can’t blame the mra completely for feeding his fantasies, again I’m sure they are well meaning and just take him at his word. But they have made my life harder. Not to mention my niece and nephew, parents etc.

  44. >Biscuit Queen: "Actually, their bottom line is to sell their product. It would be stupid for a business to encourage it's customers to make less money to buy their products. Where do you get these ideas from?"BQ, I get these ideas from observation and the simple truth that in an old and entrenched industry, people are far more likely to bow to tradition rather than act rationally, when tradition and rationality are at odds with each other. You, on the other hand, make the mistake of assuming that people who need to sell magazines or products advertised in them will pursue that objective in a rational manner.Let's take one obvious example of merchants deliberately killing the goose that lays the golden egg. It is a well-known fact that advertisers obsessively target the 15-25 demographic, although it is the demographic with the least money and therefore the least buying power. Why? Tradition and cultural pressure, that's why. Sure, you can argue that people between the ages of 15-25 are the most impressionable and impulsive, get consumer credit easily, and lack the experience of dealing with debt. However, any smart executive has to realize that driving someone into bankruptcy with a cheap car and a string of midnight pizzas will make it that much more unlikely for that person to spend money on BMW's and Prada bags 20 years down the road.Which brings me to my next point: people whose bottom line is to sell stuff think short-term. They care about this year's balance sheet. They don't give a shit about problems that their successors will have to deal with 20 years from now, when they are retired and living it up in Boca Raton. They want to make money NOW, even if the ways in which they do it will undercut sales in the distant future. Inflammatory, reactionary articles sell tabloids today, and I assure you, those who publish them do not care one fig about the possibility that women may draw the obvious inference and as a result, have less money to buy that tabloid in some distant future. Après moi, le déluge: it's basic human nature.Contrary to what you seem to be suggesting here, both advertising and popular mass media pander heavily to blatant sexist stereotypes and strictly defined gender roles, with perhaps a nod to political correctness here and there. Advertisers and publishers of tabloids make a bet that by validating bias, they will get people to buy the product. And thus, household cleaning commercials feature only women cleaning and doing laundry. Commercials with cooking scenes almost always have the woman cooking; on rare occasions where the cooking is done by a man, it's always for a surprise romantic meal — the fact that it's a surprise implying that the man doesn't ordinarily cook, even though he is more than capable. Advertisers have no qualms about telling men that they can put the bitch in her place by eating a greasy sandwich or putting on a pair of chinos; that giving your wife to a bunch of thugs to rape and murder in order to save your tires is funny; and that compromising on anything in a relationship makes them whimps, because "real men" just order their women about. And of course, we have tabloid articles concern-trolling that women who don't dedicate their lives to being someone's home appliance can't find love.

  45. >Kave, my sympathies. Obviously a very difficult situation.

  46. >It's funny because mra's say that women don't have a sense of humor but not one of them laughed at the whole "all women in sex camps" and on the font line thing. I'm glad someone got a chuckle out of it beside myself.I'm not surprised that not one of them laughed at your mocking the glaring contradiction evident in his proposed "cures" for "the woman problem". Next thing you know, he'll have all of us women in the coal mines…but only when we're not serving on the front line or grazing around in the sex camp. Not only are MRAs seemingly completely oblivious to their many contradictions, but they're not about to expose themselves to ridicule for breaking rank (and they accuse ALL women of having "herd mentality") and admitting that a mockery directed at one of their own was humourous.Women don't have a sense of humour because women aren't laughing uproariously at the zillionth time that they've heard "Ah, you must be one of those hairy-pitted, hairy-legged man-hating lesbian gorilla cat ladies" (or a reasonable facsimile thereof). I dunno, somewhere between the tenth and the zillionth time I've heard that, it's just somehow lost its edge. But MRAs think that it's just as hilarious the zillion time it's stated as it was the first time it was stated.And would somebody please explain to me where this bit about the cats comes from.I try to not be angry with the people who have told my schizophrenic brother that the voices in his head are real.Perhaps they honestly DO think that the voices in his head (that he must be telling them about) are metaphorical — perhaps being inner voices of intuition or something of that nature. Not that that helps with the reality of the situation, but even if you DID try to tell them the truth, they wouldn't believe you because you've been branded a troll for not completely toeing the MRA line. So very sad.Thank you for sharing a bit of your life experience with us. And although a blog site can't really help you directly with what you are facing, I do hope that you will stick around this one for a while and enjoy the lively banter. If nothing else, perhaps it will provide you with some comic relief.

  47. >Thanks Pam and David.I am addicted to this blog! In the eight or so years I've been tracking his online activity I have never (or rarely) smiled doing so. I've laughed out loud in the last few weeks; in fact I've read out loud entries over family dinner. (my father loves you)David you have done a great thing for my family. I can't put it into words how wonderful it is to know that you are not alone in seeing how ludicrous all this is.

  48. >Hey Kave-David F. knows my email, so if you ever need a friendly online pen pal to vent to let me know; someone in an online feminist community did the same for me when I was coping with "divorcing" (so to speak) my abusive mother, so I wouldn't mind paying it forward. :) Either way, I hope things get better for you. You sound like you've been doing all you can to make things better. A good person to talk to about these sorts of issues is Hugo Schwyzer-do you know/know of him? I can connect you guys on Facebook if you want to vent "man-to-man."

  49. >Also, Kave, have you considered directing your brother towards disability rights blogs? I know it can be hard to reconcile with your experience, but he is oppressed in a lot of ways as person with disabilities. That could help channel some of his rightful angers at an ableist society, and curb some of his misdirected anger at women as a category; perhaps even prompting proper self-care and treatment? Sometimes not caring for one's disability is a purposeful form of self-harm, and no matter how hateful he is, he is still a human deserving of proper care (but you know that already :) ).http://blobolobolob.blogspot.com/2010/05/blogging-against-disablism-day-2010.html

  50. >@KaveYou're most welcome! When you treat others the way you yourself would like to be treated, sometimes it is returned in kind…funny that…I can't put it into words how wonderful it is to know that you are not alone in seeing how ludicrous all this is.Hey, if you want ludicrous, look no further than Peter Andrew: Nolan (think he even copyrighted his name, just in case, y'know, somebody has a death wish and wants to masquerade as him), the artist formerly known as Globalman. I think he has recently been allowed back at Spearhead, but I could be wrong.Anyhow, I think David has given me more than enough leeway to go off-topic in this thread, so I will not derail his topic any further. Thanks, David, for allowing the derail.

  51. >Hahaha, is Nolan a sovereign citizen too?

  52. >Hahaha, is Nolan a sovereign citizen too?Oh my, YES! And YOU can be, TOO!! Peter can help you…Try to make your way through his hefty Introduction and Overviewand then slide on over to grab some Scanned DocsBut remember, seeing as poor Peter had to work on a recapture for his strawman… I think it may have run off with the gingerbread man…and so Peter might end up in the wicker man. Don't let this happen to YOU!!

  53. >OH MY GOSH!!!! THANK YOU for this Pam!Seriously, thank you, I need more of these forms so I can use them as part of a presentation.

  54. >You're welcome! Here are some more sample docsThose are from the lawfulrebellion website, not Peter's.

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