Links: Michael Kimmel and Amanda Marcotte on masculinity, misogyny and Anders Breivik
The world doesn't need any more macho Nazis
A couple excellent pieces on Anders Breivik and misogyny.
First: The other day I posted a link to a piece by Michael Kimmel on Breivik and the sexual politics of far-right thought. It turned out that the article was a draft that got published prematurely.
Now the final version of the post is officially up at Sociological Images: A tale of two terrorists redux. Kimmel argues that what we know about Breivik thus far
indicate[s] that … it will be impossible to fully understand this horrific act without understanding how gender operates as a rhetorical and political device for domestic terrorists.
These members of the far right consider themselves Christian Crusaders for Aryan Manhood, vowing its rescue from a feminizing welfare state. Theirs is the militarized manhood of the heroic John Rambo – a manhood that celebrates their God-sanctioned right to band together in armed militias if anyone, or any governmental agency, tries to take it away from them. If the state and capital emasculate them, and if the masculinity of the “others” is problematic, then only “real” white men can rescue the American Eden or the bucolic Norwegian countryside from a feminized, multicultural, androgynous immigrant-inspired melting pot.
Meanwhile, Amanda Marcotte at Pandagon offers some thoughts on Misogyny and Terrorism:
[T]here’s definitely a strong link between misogyny and violence that can’t be denied. Misogynists are far likelier to be violent people than non-misogynists, which is why rape and wife-beating are such common crimes. (Domestic violence is the number one cause of injury for women 15-44.) All bigotry provokes violence at its ends, of course. This isn’t the Oppression Olympics. But misogyny and violence go hand in hand so often because misogynists really buy deeply into the idea that women are weak and men are “strong”, by which they mean aggressive. A steady drumbeat of misogynist thought couldn’t be better designed to reach the unhinged and cause them to lash out violently, all while imagining themselves to be big, tough men who claim they were forced—with “why did you make me do this?” being the battle cry of wife beaters—into violence.
Discuss.
Posted on July 29, 2011, in links, masculinity, oppressed men, patriarchy, racism, terrorism, victimhood. Bookmark the permalink. 338 Comments.
@Marc: “One word: “13-year-old””
Huh. So…any examples from her blog to prove it. She does tackle heavy stuff (from transphobia to other forms of bigotry) admist all of the fun stuff (cats, movies, comics…you name it).
Also, I’m saying that sneaking a quote from Linkola as cover for an insult about fat people…classy, dude. Classy.
At least your craziness is confined to a small movement on the internet.
“We have better education now, but genetically we are on the decline.” Citation needed. Start with defining your terms. What exactly does “genetic decline” refer to? Is it related to fitness. Marc, humor me and provide us with the biological definition of “fitness” if you would please.
Industrialists and technologists would be retrained as agricultural labourers.
Huh. Where have we heard this one before. Is he calling it Year Zero or is he worried about copyright infringement?
Marc is an exemplar of the rule that any sufficiently foamy wingnut is indistinguishable from a troll, and vice versa. At some point, you have to be incredibly unbalanced to be able to try to fake being unbalanced. Maybe he and MRAlieutenant should correspond and they can try to vampire attention off one another.
http://ami-rants.blogspot.com/2007/05/why-im-anti-vegetarian.html
13-year-old.
At least your craziness is confined to a small movement on the internet.
Jesus started his destructive “death disguised as life” religion with no more than his twelve disciples! This religion paved the way to what we see now, it paved the way for Christian culture and so, to humanism.
All this talk about discrimination and this shaming with privilege, this desire for equality is nothing more than “love your enemy”. If you discriminate you see somebody as not your neighbor but your enemy and treat him as such, if you try not to discriminate you try to love your enemy. Unhealthy slave-morality that brought us to this point. Funny enough outside of the human realm, the right of the stronger is in full effect: you kill defenseless animals as you like. Rather than that people like Molly make a diet, or you stop eating meat, you shoot defenseless camels.
Christianity was started by few and so it can also be be removed by few people.
I think Marc should insult me, because everyone has heard of me around here apparently (XD!).
Also: Marc, the Flynn effect has multiple theorized causes, one of which is “more education.” However, better nutrition, a more stimulating environment, decreased rate of infectious diseases and even more familiarity with standard tests are also theorized causes. A study in, iirc, Brazil showed that nutrition and stimulating environment were the most likely to increase IQ. Human neuroplasticity really should not be underestimated. Even if humans were starting to have less intelligence genetically (which you have not exactly proven), providing a more enriched environment for small children could easily counterbalance the trend. But, factually, human IQs are NOT decreasing, and it is up to you to prove that they “really” are.
Also, it is completely unscientific to refer to “better” or “worse” genes. Some genotypes are best suited to some environments; other genotypes are best suited to other environments.
I can’t see why the gang is all up in arms about Marc, you both work towards the same ending. Feminism was always just a tool to bring about the goal of 500 million serfs for the gang at the top of the pyramid. Who do you think made abortion the cornerstone of feminism? Thats right children, you work for people like Pentti Linkola and bleet with joy when they told you the slaughter of the unborn was a right.
None of you have the intelligence to comprehend the fools you are as Ozzy prattles on about IQ increasing. How smug you feel patting yourselves on the back having memorized feminist ideology and gender construct theory. How simplistic it’s been to manipulate women; tell them their oppressed and they stampede to slave away for their masters. Tell them men are their enemies and they cackle with glee, mocking and ridiculing the ones who could save them.
Dontcha know kiddies? It’s written in stone, There will be only 500 million people left. Ya see the gang at the top only want so many serfs, that leaves more for them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones
Marc: Ami’s rant is what we smarty-pants no-fun feminists call a “satire.”
Also, slave-morality? Someone needs to have his Nietzsche confiscated until he understands it.
@Ami: YAY, Marc is pissed about your vegetarian post!
Confetti and chocolate cake for everybody, because it’s celebration time!!!
Ahem, anyway, back to seriousness.
“All this talk about discrimination and this shaming with privilege, this desire for equality is nothing more than “love your enemy”. If you discriminate you see somebody as not your neighbor but your enemy and treat him as such, if you try not to discriminate you try to love your enemy.”
So…everyone but yourself is automatically the enemy?
“Funny enough outside of the human realm, the right of the stronger is in full effect: you kill defenseless animals as you like. Rather than that people like Molly make a diet, or you stop eating meat, you shoot defenseless camels.”
Again with the strawman proping. Doesn’t lining up that many strawmen get tiring after a while?
Biology 101, Marc, you are sorely in need of it.
“Also, slave-morality? Someone needs to have his Nietzsche confiscated until he understands it.”
Seriously.
I think I should make “Leading cause of global warming” my new blog tagline.
We can further see how feminism, communism and the gang at the top of the pyramid work in concert. The destruction of Christianity. Isn’t that right? Keep up the fine work, they just love feminism as the top. Ya don’t think the US/UN Corporate complex funds it with trillions every year and exports it worldwide cause they love women do ya? Oh thats right, you do dontcha? It must be the Flynn effect. HAHAHA.
NWO just hates me. XD Prattling!
“I think I should make “Leading cause of global warming” my new blog tagline.”
Yes! YESSSSSSSS!
Marc, do you have any ideas about anything that aren’t completely crackpot?
What’s your favorite movie, for example?
Actually, that might end up being weird too. How about a favorite food?
No, David, don’t distract him! He has to criticize my blog!
Here’s the link, Marc! http://ozymandias3.blogspot.com/ I’d be happy to find out how I’m evil.
Awww! The troll left before he could say how I was terrible and contributing to the destruction of the Earth.
“We will capture fat people right when they’re waiting for liposuction and force them to loose weight the natural way (Molly?).”
I am laughing so hard I am crying.
So he’s like.. Ra’s Al Ghul + Captain Planet? xD
And now he’ll NEVER BE BACKKKKKKK XDDDD
Starting a new line… at 3 days until he’ll be back
who takes the under (less than 3 days) and who takes the over (more than 3 days)? :3
By “decent people” Marc of course means murderers, terrorists, and sociopaths. He must murder you in self defense against…having to see fat people, apparantly? Or is the Twitter which causes his burning need for mass murder?
(Seriously though, this guy needs to be reported to law enforcement, that last screed was way, way over the line)
I vote 1 day. That should be enough time to capture all the fat people, right?
They do say we’re harder to kidnap…
Wait, he’s yet another guy who took my anti-veg post srsly? xD And I’m the 13 y/o xD (which I am!
)
*pats Ozy* there there
At least NWO’s made you his new squeeze now 
Or maybe you’re just in there w/ me and Holly now XD I dunno
HEY NWO WHO DO YOU HATE THE MOST!? xD
NWO NWO on the wall, who is the vilest of them all? :3
I find it hilarious Marc said that he was open to all sorts of ideas/lifestyles/etc when talking about Molly’s blog…
rly? xD I thought he was pretty much against everything xD
welp, screwed that up
But I already know how I’m contributing to the New World Order! I want to know how I’m contributing to the destruction of the earth!
((((
In all of our meandering, it took me a bit to notice just how perfectly Marc’s flouncing comment fits with the actual topic of the post.
“A steady drumbeat of misogynist thought couldn’t be better designed to reach the unhinged and cause them to lash out violently, all while imagining themselves to be big, tough men who claim they were forced—with “why did you make me do this?” being the battle cry of wife beaters—into violence.”
“So the time for talk is over, I don’t want to go to war against you, but you leave me no choice, it’s just self-defense. And don’t cry when the next beauty clinic blows up or another decadent unnecessary institution. We will capture fat people right when they’re waiting for liposuction and force them to loose weight the natural way (Molly?). Then you will be shocked how you could mock us, like you were with Breivik, you mocked them until he said to himself “I will be mocked no more!”.”
@Ozy, it’s just one small step from Roomba to Cylon…
I know how I am:
ANTI VEGETARIANISM! XD
it actually always amused me that despite everything ELSE I’ve ever said… that’s the post that everybody hates me for xD
Everyone hates me for linking to Manboobz. I have seriously gotten so many comments and emails along the lines of “NSWATM is great! Why do you link to Manboobz?” and it’s like, “well, because about 90% of NSWATM writers and a shitload of the people who read us are regular Manboobz commenters.”
it actually always amused me that despite everything ELSE I’ve ever said… that’s the post that everybody hates me for xD
You’ll just have to step up the CRUEL and VILE.
And the smileys.
And the only blog post I’ve ever gotten any hate for was an Ami-type snark about DS9, except the reaction wasn’t as violent or prolonged. I’m basically Ami’s Mini-Me.
@Ozy: I’m assuming the emails are from people who are feminists? Do they think we’re being too harsh?
I deleted Marc’s final comment (and that will be his final comment; I’ve banned him too).
I might delete the comments quoting from it as well.
Marc was always borderline-bannable, but that was over the line. Yikes.
Molly: Mostly they’re from people on the MRA/anti-feminist spectrum who are outraged a blog that clearly cares so much about men’s rights links to such a font of misandry.
Yeah, Marc was pretty bad, but it bothered me less than it should have because a lot of his fat hate looked very familiar.
This has been a “Why We Need Fat Acceptance” public service announcement.
@Ozy: Oh! Drat, I hoped we were riling up some non-MRAs too!
In re: the fat hate, 60 kilograms = 132 pounds.
On 5’1″ me that’s the top end of normal BMI. On normal height people that’s pretty thin to dangerously underweight.
Marc’s idol doesn’t just hate fatties, he hates anyone who’s not built like a preying mantis. o_0
Funfact: Like Marc, the drummer for Fall Out Boy is an anarcho-primitivist.
It seems to me if being a douchebag to fat people got people to lose weight, there would be not a single fat person left in the world.
Honestly, I think Manboobz has done a lot to HELP men’s rights… I think it’s gotten a lot of feminists to start blogging about issues that affect men, or at least keep that in mind.. it’s got a lot of feminists realizing that there’s a hole to fill that is not being filled by The Spearhead, and etc xD and it’s helped NSWATM get it’s readers, contributers and etc
plus it introduced a whole new segment of the blogosphere to me! xD
The whole “fat shaming will stop ppl being fat” is ridic -_- It reminds me of the whole “if society stopped coddling queer and trans ppl, ppl wouldn’t be queer and trans nemore!” um yeah… have you looked around society? xD If insulting, shaming, harassing and KILLING us, made ppl not be trans and queer, it’d have happened a long time ago -_-
My goal is still for the Spearhead to write about me xD
C’mon, the feminists alrdy have whole threads about me! xD So do the vegetarians, the comic book geeks.. somethingawful, a fandom snark site.. and even one of the chans! xD
@Ami: Damn, you have a whole thread on Something Awful? I need to step up my game!
I had a Spearhead thread once! It was SO AWESOME.
Ozy, my blog is too small to get trolls. People just send me their desperate wank fantasies. XD
No one has ever sent me a wank fantasy unless I asked first.
I feel dreadfully left out.
Holy shit. This thread blew up.
So…uh…anyone have a favorite TV show? I’m currently going through Mad Men and Babylon 5.
@Ozy I know >:| I need to catch up >:\
C’MON SPEARHEAD! GET YOUR GAME IN GEAR! >:O
i think the problem is, unlike the other places I show up in, I write EXACTLY the way MRAs think women write rather than “wtf is wrong w/ the way she writes!?” xD
@Redlocker I love Babylon 5!
Except S1 and 5 xD
@Molly nobody’s sent me wank fantasies o_O Just death and rape threats xD
we all have our own niche I guess xD
@Ami: Yeah, I’m currently going through Season 1 now. It’s a bit slow, but it’s an intriguing introduction to the universe of the show.
So…uh…anyone have a favorite TV show? I’m currently going through Mad Men and Babylon 5.
I love B5! Also Star Trek (except Voyager and Enterprise), Farscape, and Firefly. I just finished Sarah Connor Chronicles. At some point, I plan to get into Blake’s Seven.
Season 1 of Babylon 5 is not particularly well-written. It’ll get better, until the third season will be damn near the best sci-fi that you will have seen.
Who here likes The Guild?
60kg??? I’m 63kg and I’m like a US size 4/6 o_O I thought I was thin now!
“60kg??? I’m 63kg and I’m like a US size 4/6 o_O I thought I was thin now!”
You must be THIS THIN to ride the Pentti Linkola.
But really…did anyone else get “Ok Computer” flashbacks when reading that Anti-Humanist stuff? “Paranoid Android” lyrics reverberated inside my head when reading Marc’s final post.
Marc: I’m just for normal eugenics.
Ah… so the, “lets wipe out all them men” wasn’t, purely an intellectual exercise. It’s a question of if you want to wipe people out, but whom you wish to kill off.
So Brievik was merely a failure of execution; but you agree with his ends. That seems a strong case for you being not merely a bigot and a racist, but an eliminationist bigot and racist.
(btw, thanks for reminding me to go look at Molly’s tumbler. It is a bit decadent. I like a bit of decadence)
Molly: I like your blog. I’m impressed by your willingness to post the photos. I think, from a purely technical POV, they are very good at what they are trying to do.
From a personal POV, I think they make you look good too.
And I see Marc is banned… ah well. (I also see he has tried to pull an Eoghan, and failed by announcing himself).
But I was struck by this (which seems typical of his difficulties with consistency/logic)
1: People are destructive to the environment.
2: Therefore the number of people must be reduced.
1: Camels are destructive to the environment.
2: Reducing the number of camels is immoral.
“But I was struck by this (which seems typical of his difficulties with consistency/logic)
1: People are destructive to the environment.
2: Therefore the number of people must be reduced.
1: Camels are destructive to the environment.
2: Reducing the number of camels is immoral.”
According to Marc, it’s the humans who are doing damage to the environment, and them solely. He was pretty much dismissing that Camels could in any way be linked to Global Warming (a little soundbyte of his that was proven to be false. As someone else has said in this thread before, feral Camels were being killed off, but not because of global warming).