A hard act to wallow
Attention feminist "loosers!" (Who are here represented for some reason by elephants.) It's time for your giant wake-up call!
Always hilarious: MRAs deriding feminists as “cretins” in posts riddled with egregious grammatical errors and other indications of less-than-stellar intellect and/or education. Pot, kettle, and all that.
Anyway, here’s the dude behind the blog What Men Are Saying About Women trying to argue that even the MSM (mainstream media) has started to turn against feminism. (I had no idea the MSM had ever been pro-feminist in the first place.) He even throws in a little dig at Ozymandias’ new blog!
For best results, read this aloud in a steady monotone. Insert the word “MONEY” from time to time if you want to interest any ladies within earshot. (Inside joke.)
Well, finally. MSM is finally and slowly seeing things our way. Finally climbing aboard the winning side as they join the ongoing chorus against feminists, feminism and those white knight manginas even though they are busy creating false MRA and Men’s Assistance sites such as the good men project and a few other which I will not list as yet, to try and entrap the unwary and ignorant into joining their anti-male drivel which ofcourse is dying rapidly even though their desperation increases..
Dude, you only need one period at the end of a sentence.
Sadly, those cretins continue their dead end attempts at ridiculing all and sundry because they have the termerity to question their feminist nonsense similar to those same cretins wallowing in the AGW hysteria. [AGW is a reference to global warming, right? --DF] In both cases, those loosers are in for a giant wakeup call but most of them are way too deaf to hear, what!!
How can wake-up calls be “giant?” I guess one could be loud, if you turned up the ringer on your phone, or taped it to your ear, or if whoever made the call yelled at the top of their lungs, but isn’t the idea of the wakeup call that just getting such a call will wake you up?
To you and I, that death knell is on it’s way and nothing will stop that as the MSM will ensure that hate movement wallows into insignificance and irellevancy as the western world finally realises that their hate doctrine is a doctrine of destruction and the funds to that movement have to be cut to ensure that dying, shrivelling, wrinkled carcass is drained of it’s nourishment and that is access to the government trough..
Dude. You know how your computer sometimes puts those little lines under the words you type? This means they’re spelled wrong. You’re supposed to go back and fix them.
Also: The word “wallow,” used as a verb, means “to roll oneself about in a lazy, relaxed, or ungainly manner,” as in pigs wallowing in mud. It can also mean to take delight in, or luxuriate in, something, or to “to become or remain helpless” — to wallow in ignorance, for example. One cannot, in other words, “wallow into insignificance.” The word you are looking for there is “dwindle,” which means “to become steadily less.” I realize it can be difficult to keep track of these different meanings, especially given that both words contain the letter “w.” Pro-tip: Words containing the letter “w” do not all mean the same thing.
To finally kill that beast, thrashing as it will as so many rely on it’s existence for income, that end will be all the more enjoyable as it wallows in it’s own destruction..
So that’s four incorrect uses of “it’s” in the last two paragraphs, two of them in the same sentence. The difference between “its” and “it’s” is really not that difficult to understand. Read and learn.
Once you’ve removed the superfluous periods, gotten your metaphors ironed out, fixed the spelling errors, and learned the proper usage of “it’s” and “its,” we can start in on the rest of the grammatical carnage. That last, er, sentence of yours? All I can say is “wow.”
Let this be a giant, smelly, bad-tasting, itchy, teal-colored wake-up call for you.
Like this:
Posted on July 5, 2011, in Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink. 124 Comments.
Ami!
*SHRIEKS WTH JOY**
That’s so fucking incredible-I LURVE IT!
Thank you!
@Amnesia kk, I think I have an idea for that :3
@MertvayaRuka if I have an idea, and can find a pic it usually goes pretty quickly
sometimes I get stumped tho xD
@Ithiliana yay! I’m glad you like it!
Wow, AZ made it on the news without it involving the words “illegal” “Russell Pearce” “unconstitutional” “shooting” and “strange.”
I drove home in the storm and it was actually fun.
“@ Hippodemeia, glad you liked it. And you got to take the Pervocracy off the gold standard, like a true villain would.”
*cackles in glee*
I LOVE it!
And after we win the war, I have a few ideas about how to handle Excessive Executive Compensation . . . .
katz, I formerly thought that the MRA’s did have some grounds for complaint, such as in the area of family law. That was mainly because of my ignorance in such matters, as it turns out. In that way this site has been quite educational: I heard from people who did know about such things as custody and child support, and now think that the MRA’s are 100% full of shit.
Please ignore this as I test my new WordPress account…
The problem is not that they have no point whatsoever.
The problem is that it’s all drowned out by sheer, relentless misogyny.
Sort of like how some radfems end up ostracizing themselves by letting genuine misandry (as opposed to mere female impiety towards men, which shouldn’t fucking matter) color everything they say.
But yeah…the PUAs and the MGTOWs are two sides of the same coin.
PUAs: Women are worthless whores, I’m going to pump and dump them all the live long day
MGTOWs: Women are worthless whores, I’m going to pretend they don’t exist so they can’t steal my precious bodily fluids
dave:
Perhaps I should say “no overall cause for complaint.” Which is to say, individual people may indeed have the precise problem that they’re talking about, but there’s no overall trend of that problem existing for the population at large.
Exactly! And that unfortunate attitude leads them to reject actual solutions to their problems, because the solutions might benefit women too.
Feminist solutions for women, you mean. These men are tired of serving women. They want their own needs met, for once. This is the essence of the MRA philosophy in my understanding- men’s issues, with no interference from privileged females who need to have 3/4 of all resources devoted to them.
No, MRAL, the essence of the MRA philosphy is “all women suck”.
3/4 of all resources devoted to us? Then why haven’t we gotten that Wonder Woman movie yet?
MRAL: What needs?
More to the point, what needs that women must fulfill?
And why is it Men are entitled to that fulfillment?
MRAL, that would be a lot easier to take seriously if they didn’t spend so much time talking about women in the most grotesque, disparaging terms.
You know who else I don’t take seriously? Racists who claim to not be racist. http://trueslant.com/jessicafayecarter/2009/10/19/7-ridiculous-im-not-racist-claims/
There’s a lot of unfortunate similarities between racists and MRAs. I take talk about “privileged females” and “oppressed men” about as seriously as I take talk about “oppressed whites”.
There is a world of difference between the terms “privileged women” and “oppressed whites”. Namely, whites aren’t oppressed, but women are privileged.
I feel I have a bit more perspective than I did a few weeks ago. I’ve refined my politics. I wouldn’t exactly call men oppressed per se. It’s not comparable to the treatment of blacks in the past, for example. But I think we definitely live in a culture that privileges women over men, not in any large way, but in a thousand small ways. Our culture is tinged, IMO, with misandry, and while that is not feminism’s fault (it has always been that way) what feminism has done is remove the respect society had always had for positive masculine traits (strength, loyalty, etc.). Thus, our society as a whole construct is left with only contempt toward the masculine.
How exactly has feminism (that great monolithic bloc) removed respect for strength and loyalty, etc.? Why are those only masculine traits? No strong and loyal women out there?
By constantly presenting an implicit picture of the masculine as destructive and oppressive.
How so? In other words, citation needed.
And you never answered as to whether you think strength and loyalty only exist in the realm of the masculine.
Because some forms of presentation of masculinity can be destructive. But I know not all men suck. FoSB for instance: sweet, strong(physically and emotionally) loyal man. But when he gets angry(which I have known a lot of men to identify as a more aggressive and male trait, as well as more necessary in men than in women), he clams up, and instead can get pretty durn insulting. Which hurts me, and also hurts him while he internalizes that stuff. Not to mention other men I have known to link aggression, anger, etc etc, and put it all together as “The Way Men Are Supposed To Be”.
But those sorts of emotions are damaging in anybody, women too. It’s just that those particular, overt traits are coded more as male behavior than anything. I know I was always taught to hold my tongue and my temper when I was little, while people shrugged as my little male friends flew off the handle, saying boys would be boys.
And on top of that, like hellkell said, those “positive male traits”? Positive and present in women, too. I’m strong, loyal, and I can be stoic. Does that make me less female? I personally don’t care cause I think gender (not biological sex) is pretty much a made up thing. I. personally, just don’t break those gender barriers in very big ways.
“3/4 of all resources devoted to us? Then why haven’t we gotten that Wonder Woman movie yet?”
I know! Where are my female action heroes that don’t have to wear sexy outfits? Why is there not more porn portraying men as sexy for straight women’s consumption? Why don’t all my dresses have effing pockets???
There are times where women do have some privileges over men, but anyone who thinks that male privilege isn’t greater in our society definitely has blinders on.
That second part, however… “[I]t has always been that way.” That’s why I can’t take you seriously (well, one of the reasons, the whole Greek alphabet thing is another).
Actually, I think what MRAL explicitly said in his comment is basically correct, although not all the conclusion he might draw from it are. He made two claims:
1: Women are privileged over men in a thousand tiny ways
2: Strength and Loyalty are less valued in men now then in the past, and this is a direct result of feminist reform.
I think both these statements are true. I’m still a feminist.
MRAL,
I acknowledge that women are privileged over men in many ways, and I’ll defend that point if anyone challenges it. However I’d like to point out that you (and I) are acutely aware of the privileges women have because those privileges inconvenience us in our daily lives. I just want to remind you that as men, we have privileges that most women don’t, and that it’s not always easy to see them because we’ve always had them. I love being able to walk around shirtless, play video games without being harassed, and pass out on a stranger’s couch without fear.
I don’t think you can justifiably conclude that american men as a group have it much worse than american women unless you’ve somehow lived as both, or unless you put a lot of time into listening to american women in a nonhostile, nonjudgmental way. And even then I’d be careful.
Strength and Loyalty are good things, to be sure-and there are still women shopping for them, although by no means all women. The thing is, that their market value was artificially inflated by monopolist tactics in the past, and what you’re seeing now is a return to their real values. Back when many women were totally dependent on their husbands’ money to buy food, of course loyalty was extremely important to them. They weren’t just worried about being betrayed or heartbroken or flaked on; they were worried about ending up in the streets! A little further back, when there was a very real chance that the neighboring tribe would decide to roll into your town and ransack a few homes, a strong husband might be all that protected you theft, rape, or murder. Now strong men protect us from having to pay movers to install a TV and from sticky lids on pickle jars.
Yes, women who once might have had to chase strong, loyal, hardworking men can now chase witty or sexy or creative or spray-tanned or adventurous men. And yes, that sucks for you if your selling points are in the first set and not the second. But that doesn’t mean anyone did anything wrong.
The instances of female “privilege” I can think of, though, all stem from either women being considered less than full adult/people- ie easier sentencing: just a silly lady who must not have known the full implications of her actions, or “poor thing can’t handle hard time”. Or, they think of us as more “natural” in devalued roles, such as caregiving- ie, women more often getting custody, more women being elementary school teachers, more women being in nursing, etc. I mean, if there’s an instance where we have advantages that don’t stem from people not taking women as seriously for whatever reason, I’d be glad to hear it and change my mind.
MRAL: Your comment sums up one of the primary problems of “men’s rights”:
I wouldn’t exactly call men oppressed per se. It’s not comparable to the treatment of blacks in the past, for example
Here, you imply “Men” are a separate class than “blacks” which is untrue, so the statement only makes sense parsed this way:
I wouldn’t exactly call [white] men oppressed per se. It’s not comparable to the treatment of black [men and women] in the past, for example
White i default, so never has to be spoken. The exact same problem exists in the phrase “women and minorities” which only makes sense as “[white] women and [men and women of color]‘.
I will say flat out, and the stats supports me, that in academia, white mddle class women have benefitted disproportionately from affirmative action programs designed to redress historical inequalities that reduces access for “[white] women and [men and women of color]‘.
I have asked this question of a number of the Trolls here-how many African American men are actively engaged in MRA sites and the movement? How many Asian American? How many Hispanic and Latino men — that you know of, personally, or that have published about the issue or that get interviewed? I’d say the number is vanishingly small-because those men do as part of a marginalized and oppressed social group have real oppression to deal with.
Unconscious racism is still racism-and the fact that no single man or the few women associated with any of the MRA’s movements I’ve seen commenting here shows any awareness of the men of color (except in the racist rantings about marriage not existng in the ghetto, and references to “women” which can mean only white women being drawn to thugboys-a very old racist trope) pretty much undercuts all the claims of systemic institutionalized oppression.
You know what MRAL-you are correct, our culture is tinged with misandry but that is not because feminism said “women are people.”
I also think you are doing a disservice to all women by saying we have no strength, we are not loyal and that these are male traits.
Orion wrote, “Yes, women who once might have had to chase strong, loyal, hardworking men can now chase witty or sexy or creative or spray-tanned or adventurous men. And yes, that sucks for you if your selling points are in the first set and not the second. But that doesn’t mean anyone did anything wrong.”
I feel unconvinced because of the wording of this. How come “strong, loyal, and hardworking” doesn’t have at least some overlap with “sexy” or “adventurous”?
Also, even now, loyalty is valued because people of both sexes are still concerned about their partner cheating on them. Hardworking: you still need to have at least *some* work ethic to support a family (because of that whole thing about how a decent standard of living requires two incomes.) How are you defining “strength”? “Lifts heavy things”? “Gets their own way all the time”? I think you could say that “My strength means I can have whatever I want” is being phased out, but I still see athletic strength as being culturally important.
Was that convoluted enough? >>
If by “strength” you mean “brute physical strength”, yeah, it’s valued less, but it is still valued an awful lot. We have created machines to do a lot of the brute-force strength work for us so it’s not as necessary for humans to perform these acts directly. Consequently other forms of strength have gained in value - intellectual strength, emotional strength. These types of strength are even less a staple of masculity than brute force strength is.
I think loyalty is also still highly valuable though the definition has shifted somewhat. And I don’t think loyalty was ever considered an exclusively masculine trait.
In fact, when I think of one of the best examples of misandry: sitcoms, the only example of a man who is not treated as a buffoon is Dan Connor from Roseanne which was a feminist show.
Now, if we want to talk about the times when I’ve been afraid of dudes who looked like they could bench press me because of the “1 in 4 chance of being raped” thing, we could rehash that.
PFAE, here’s an interesting article by Roseanne on all the b.s. she had to go through to get her feminist show on the air the way she wanted it:
http://nymag.com/arts/tv/upfronts/2011/roseanne-barr-2011-5/
Feminism is the movement that keeps saying men aren’t inherently destructive, violent, oppressive and unintelligent and tries to break the societal conditioning that says men are all those things. Criticism of societal conventions is not agreement with those societal conventions. If you want to know who pushes the idea of men as nothing more than barely-literate, violent and misogynistic children, look at the men in the entertainment industry currently making bank on it. The message of popular culture is that to be male is to be without any strong emotion besides anger or lust, to always attempt to solve problems through force and to see anything coded as “feminine” to be synonymous with weakness. The popular idea of “masculinity” requires men to conform to a draconian code of conduct lest one be seen as “not a real man”. You can’t cry when you feel pain. You can’t be respectful or deferential to women at all. You’re encouraged to show contempt instead of compassion, because compassion is “feminine” and therefore weak. You can’t follow whatever pursuits you want in life, you must only express interest in “manly” things. You can’t dress however you like, speak how you like, love who you want or live like you want without any of it first meeting approval according to “manly” guidelines.
Fuck that noise. I’d rather have a spine than be a “real man”.
@Elizabeth:
“In fact, when I think of one of the best examples of misandry: sitcoms, the only example of a man who is not treated as a buffoon is Dan Connor from Roseanne which was a feminist show.”
That’s exactly it. All of the popular entertainment that revels in this idea of “manliness” and shows disdain for everything feminine almost always portrays male lead characters as dull-witted children that are inexplicably liked by everyone around them. The alcoholic, misogynist dudebro as protagonist is not the creation of feminism.
The one show that used to drive me up the wall with that premise was Everybody Loves Raymond.
And it is hard to find decent female led shows where the men are equal to the women and not considered to be less (although oddly enough I think Dexter is not too bad for a male led show with plausible women characters.)
Ughhhh, sit coms. I pretty much can’t stand ‘em.
I couldn’t watch Everybody Loves Raymond because I saw zero reason for any of those characters to interact with each other. The only time any of them ever expressed anything besides annoyance with or contempt for each other was usually a minor plot device and never lasted for any substantial period of time. The entire premise of the show and its “humor” just seemed to revolve around people who truly hated each other.
I’d say True Blood has female leads that aren’t less and are plausible in their fantasy realm.
In Plain Sight has an awesome female lead with a male partner who is also pretty awesome.
Plymouth, great show. Both the leads crack me up pretty regularly.
OK, MRAs don’t talk about “men of color” because the movement is not a damn race relations movement. We don’t care if you’re black, white, Hispanic, whatever. We focus on issues that arise as a result of being male, not as a result of being of a certain race. It’s also pretty rich being lectured on inclusiveness by the a member of the FEMINIST (aka upper-middle class white college girl) movement.
The instances of female “privilege” I can think of, though, all stem from either women being considered less than full adult/people
I don’t agree, but even if you’re right it’s still privilege. I despise this argument because a lot of men’s privilege (yes, I admit it exists, just not on the same level as female privilege) also has a lot of backhanded expectations and/or baggage that comes along with it.
But MRAL, a lot of issues that affect men are also somewhat race-based. For example, black men specifically have a terrible time with police officers, juries, and everyone else connected to law enforcement. I would have a lot more respect for white MRAs if they made time to protest police brutality against black men instead of just complaining about “thugboys.”
Sure MRAL on the male privilege having some baggage with it. A man who is given a promotion at work “because he has a family to feed” even if he does not has privilege. But the flip side is that he is not expected to be the hands on parent or is mocked for doing so.
Filetofswedish: You’re right, of course: most female privileges are side effects of broader ideas that are mostly limited and bad for women. But that doesn’t really make them not privileges, in the sense that men still suffer when they don’t have them. It’s not good for women that they’re considered “natural caretakers” for children but it’s not good for me that I can’t get a job as a babysitter. So women have privileged access to certain jobs, even if as a group they would be perfectly happy to give that privilege back.
“Upper-middle class white college girl movement?” Take a look around here, there’s more to it than that, upper-middle class white college boy.
@MRAL this is a discussion that happens in feminism quite a lot, the issues of intersectionality and how you can differentiate them…
like, a lot of the time trans men are refused entry into and excluded from men’s shelters… do you believe this is a men’s rights issue or purely a trans rights issue? what responsibility to you believe the MRM has to act on this issue? Do you think they SHOULD? esp since these are shelters that cis men tend to have a say in? one of the reasons given BY the shelters (and trans men do not have the right to opt-in to this risk) is that trans men would be “at risk” of assault and rape… do you believe cis men and cis men in the MRM should do nething about this? or is this a separate trans issue?
@MRAL I’ll flip it too, to somethiing that ALSO has happened, more so in the past, but still does… an example is Vancouver Rape Relief, which is discriminatory against trans women… as are some aspects of feminism… do you believe that cis feminists and ppl who call themselves feminists should fight transphobia IN feminism? and should oppose VRR’s policies? or do you believe that feminism should focus only on cis women cuz it’s a “woman’s movement not a gender identity movement”? much like what you said about about racism in the MRM…
MRAL get it through your head that, yes, women do suffer more than men do in this society.
like for example (and dun ignore the other 2 posts just to respond to this one :3 ), I know that many Asian men actually DO agree w/ you a lot about how women treat men, esp how Asian men are portrayed in the media, and I know many who personally v much would WANT to join the MRM, except that they’re completely turned off by posts objectifying Asian women or ppl who say that Asian men are effeminate, and other such things putting down Asian men… do you believe that MRAs should call out the racism of other MRAs who say this? do YOU do this? or do you think Asian men should suck it up? or do you believe that they shoudl start their own Asian male movement? o_O;; Do you believe that the fight for men’s rights involves fighting stereotypes against black and Asian and latino and Muslim men in the media which ALSO oppresses them in the way women may relate to them? or do you believe those stereotypes aren’t important for the MRM to fight, and that the stereotype of the bumbling sitcom dad is the only one that the MRM should fight b/c it effects “men” and is not a race issue?
this isn’t btw LOADED questions, but merely something to help you think on :3 (also to get a feel about what YOU believe) these are issues feminism deals w/ too…
Good point, Ami. Asian women are not the submissive little dolls they think, and even if they were, who are men to want a “manageable” woman anyway? It reminds me of a guy I know who says “I’ll marry when nagging is outlawed.”
God, when will guys accept that women can and will deny their precious little egos anytime they please? To not accept it is misogyny of the worst kind, I think.
MRAL: Don’t forget queer which I am.
I acknowledge my white girl privilege exists-do you acknowledge your white boy privilege? I acknowledge my class privilege (my father was an academic; his father was a wheat farmer in Washingon state, on land stolen from the local tribal cultures and handed over to European immigrants). Do you? Can you acknowledge the privilege you have as well as the ways in which you have suffered (though, as I asked a while ago, were you even aware of teh National Organizationa of Short Statured People before I mentioned them?)
Do you think queer women as are privileged as straight women.
Can you give me a link to ONE man of color who posts regularly in the the sites associated with men’s rights movements?
If not, why not?
Ami: As I recall, and I may be wrong, the only time MRAL has mentioned any men of color was the time he said something about Asian men messing up the average height or something like that?
He probably also does not notice that the vast majority of Tall CEOS are white men.
@caseymordred well there’s also the problematic issue of Asian men being offended by white MRAs wanting “Asian women” and they say “our women” and that some call us “traitors” -_- to some Asian men, they see things v similarly to the greek system MRAs except that Asians are the omegas and Asian women who aren’t dating them are spitting at them… :\
@Ithiliana there prolly are some… but not many… as I said, I know first hand many Asian guys (and black guys) who are turned off by the racism they see :\
lol
I recall it being said earlier, and I agree completely, that MRAs are what happens when those afflicted with “Nice Guy Syndrome” reach critical mass and stop pretending to not be entitled misogynist pricks who just can’t accept that they should have to date within their leagues and stop wanting women that are beyond them.
How idiotic.
Genuinely shy people do not corner people on elevators late at night and ask them into their bedroom (we’re done with the fiction that “come back to my hotel room for coffee” is an invitation for coffee rather than fucking, right?). That is an act of social aggression, not social awkwardness.