MGTOWer: We don’t hate women. We just think they’re greedy sluts who need to be punished.
Supreme Court Chief Justice Judge Judy
You know those guys over on MGTOWforums.com, who spend so much of their time complaining about women and talking about how glad they are to not have anything to do with icky lady stuff? Well, it turns out they don’t hate women at all! They just think that women are all money-hungry narcissists who deserve to be punished for abusing their “rights.”
That may seem like a rather subtle distinction there, or possibly a giant heaping load of steaming bullshit. So I’ll let the eminently rational Spocksdisciple explain it all to you.
A Misogynist hates women because they’re women…
An MGHOW distrusts women for the powers they abuse…
Go on.
An MGHOW isn’t a misogynist and should never be, he’s a person who doesn’t allow women to impact his life and doesn’t care what women think about him.
Evidently he means “a person who doesn’t allow women to impact his life except for the hours he spends every day complaining about them online.”
He’s also a person who doesn’t actively hate women, but hate the things women do with their gov’t granted powers. The abuses and legal atrocities women commit is the fault of the gov’t and judicial system allowing these abuses.
Yes, those evil feminazi judges that run the country, headed up by that evil Chief Justice Judy on the Supreme Court.
Women will be women just as men will be men, their ingrained nature is no more different then how other animals behave.
Well, perhaps a bit different than how some animals behave. I mean, flatworms have swordfights with their penises in order to determine who gets to be the dude flatworm when they have sex, and I don’t know many people who do that.
I personally think women are hardwired to be hypergamous and self centered, they have to be in order to survive.
We don’t hate women! It’s just that they’re HARDWIRED to be selfish moneygrubbing bitches. It’s SCIENCE!!!
Just as men are hardwired to be analytical problem solvers as well as highly aggressive creatures when the need arises.
Don’t hate us because we’re so smart, ladies!
The trouble is that society today lets women get away with anything and everything, from getting harassed by random dudes on streetcorners to getting paid less than men for the same work.
Sorry, those were bad examples. Back to Spocksdisciple:
Today’s women may not be worthy of trust as has been proven over and over again in the news but in the past women were granted privileges their predecessors earned for them in blood and pain, privileges which were then turned in “inalienable” rights without the ability to suffer the consequences of abusing these “rights”.
Exactly! Now that women have the right to (for example) own property, they should be roundly punished each and every time they abuse these rights! Like, if they buy too much shit, they should have to pay money to rent storage units to keep it in.
NO MORE FREE STORAGE UNITS FOR LADIES!!! We’re on to you!
I’m not sure Spockdisciple has thought of that example. I’ll have to mention it at the next meeting.
But anyway, even though Spocksdisciple thinks women should suffer some sort of consequences for “abusing” their rights –oddly, he doesn’t actually mention what rights women are abusing or how they should be punished – he wants to make it clear that this doesn’t mean he hates the ladies.
Hating women for their innate nature is like them hating men for ours, nothing will come of it, men and women won’t change their innermost nature so why bother wasting the energy in the first place.
A true MGHOW doesn’t hate women, he hates the system which enables such bad behavior in women without them suffering the consequences of such behavior, if women suffered the consequences of their misbehavior you can bet many of them wouldn’t be so eager to abuse their “rights” with impunity.
So, again, MGTOWers don’t hate women. They just think women are inherently a bunch of greedy hoebags who are completely untrustworthy and deserve to be punished.
What on earth is hateful about that?
Naturally, most of the totally non-woman-hating dudes over on MGTOWforums.com found Spocksdisciple’s argument to be logical as shit. As cdub noted:
I don’t hate women. I hate that they are not held accountable for their actions. There are too many blue pillers out there to ever see thru this shit. I think the only thing that will change any of this is if there is complete collapse of the Western world and all those strong, independent women will have to rely on men just like nature intended.
AussieSteve, though, thought Spocksdisciple was being a bit too lenient on the ladies.
I hate the system and I hate what women are. I can hate both because both have earned my hatred. The system hasn’t made women loathsome it has merely created an environment that has exposed their true natures. If somebody lets a poisonous snake out of its cage am I not allowed to kill that snake because it isn’t its fault that it got out? The person that opened the cage should be held accountable as well, sure - but a snake is still a snake and if I have to kill it to protect myself then that snake is going to die.
All the system has done is allow women to do abhorrent things, it hasn’t made them do it. It just removed the restraints that our forefathers, in their wisdom, put in place to keep them under control. Women are poisonous snakes and we have stupidly let them out of their cages.
Huh. Women represented by evil snakes. Haven’t ever heard that one before.
Like this:
Posted on January 31, 2012, in $MONEY$, antifeminism, creepy, evil women, I'm totally being sarcastic, it's science!, men who should not ever be with women ever, MGTOW, MGTOW paradox, misogyny, oppressed men. Bookmark the permalink. 138 Comments.
“Believe it or not, I actually had a guy I work with ask me seriously if I felt women were still trying “to catch up to men” because of having to “overcome the shame” of Eve. /facepalm”
Did you laugh? I would have.
Well yes if you go by “we do not like you do things we disagree with” standard of rights.
Of course this means I will quote from the glorious dissent for Arizona Free Enterprise Club v. Bennett by Justice Kagan:
This suit, in fact, may merit less attention than any challenge to a speech subsidy ever seen in this Court. In the usual First Amendment subsidy case, a person complains that the government declined to finance his speech,while bankrolling someone else’s; we must then decide whether the government differentiated between these speakers on a prohibited basis—because it preferred onespeaker’s ideas to another’s. See, e.g., id., at 577–578; Regan, 461 U. S., at 543–545. But the candidates bringingthis challenge do not make that claim—because they werenever denied a subsidy. Arizona, remember, offers to support any person running for state office. Petitioners here refused that assistance. So they are making a novel argument: that Arizona violated their First Amendment rights by disbursing funds to other speakers even though they could have received (but chose to spurn) the same financial assistance. Some people might call that chutzpah.
Indeed, what petitioners demand is essentially a right to quash others’ speech through the prohibition of a (universally available) subsidy program. Petitioners are able to convey their ideas without public financing—and they would prefer the field to themselves, so that they can speak free from response. To attain that goal, they ask this Court to prevent Arizona from funding electoral speech—even though that assistance is offered to every state candidate, on the same (entirely unobjectionable) basis. And this Court gladly obliges.
*laughs, then cries* Anyway, the thing is that women are abusing their rights by doing things like this-disagreeing with the menfolk who of course are more logical despite the majority opinion in this case being one of the more tortured logic decisions by the SCOTUS-not as bad as Bush v Gore though. Men can disagree with one another, after all, they are men but ladies are supposed to be there only to say “yes dear.”
Jesus. Why don’t these guys just come out and say it? They consider women subhuman. Full stop.
Seriously, why don’t these guys band together and go find an island some place? They can live without having to lay eyes on another woman for the rest of their lives. They can make spears and hunt wild boar, beat their chests, and dance the ‘Ancient Dance of the Mighty Penis’ around the bonfire.
MGTOWers, it’s obvious you’re miserable because some humans are born with ovaries and vaginas. For your own mental health, go. Go now.
Somehow, I can’t make this sound like anything other than “We don’t hate women, we hate what women do, because women are inherently hateful bitches whose every action is pervaded with their inherent hatefulness and therefore worthy of our hatey hatred.”
Also! During my public-defender years, the occasional self-righteous type would tell me that criminal rights were all well and good, but too many defendants “abused” them. What they meant were that the guilty ones “abused” them by exercising them, while the innocent ones were totally entitled to those same protections. It was a travesty for some people to have rights in the first place, and travesty for others to have those same rights ignored. Sounds awfully familiar….
Finally, why do none of my friends have penis swordfights that I know about? Clearly I need some new friends.
@Crumbelievable
WHO SAID THAT?
Spocksdisciple may indeed consider himself a disciple of the inestimable Mr. Spock - but if so it seems to me that he has failed to grasp the governing attributes of Mr. Spock’s approach to life.
Logic and the rational thoughts that stem from an understanding of it.
Just sayin’
@ Lady Zombie
I think I just came up with a solution to our problem - Bravo. They love this kind of shit. We just need to persuade them that MGTOW Island would make fabulous TV and they can put up the cash, stock the island with food supplies, and drop all the MGTOW. And then the entertainment will begin.
I predict that they’ll all go Lord of the Flies on each other within a week.
@ Cassandra
Sounds awesome. Now all we need to do is pitch it to some network execs. The only thing I’d change is I wouldn’t stock the island at all. I mean hey, they’re men and as we all know, men can do everything! They don’t need help like women do. So it should be no problem for them to build huts, construct a water purification system, plant crops, fashion hunting implements, and so on, all from the raw materials on the island. After all, men built civilization as we know it!
Should be a cake-walk for them!
A man’s rights are so natural and inalienable from him they’re a part of his skin, while a woman’s rights are artificial, always subject to question, and can be taken away at any moment.
We hear people say all the time, “Women have abused their rights, we must take those rights away.”
But we never hear people say (it is almost impossible to say), “Men have abused their rights, we must take those rights away.”
Seriously, people who believe women are privileged are stupid. It is impossible to be “privileged” when your rights, your abilities, and the very idea that you are a human being, are always under question.
But if we don’t stock the island everyone will be dead within a few weeks. You know these guys would just sit on the beach waiting for a woman to come make them a sandwich. I’d be amazed if they even roused themselves enough to try to climb a tree and pick some bananas.
(I’m assuming this will be a nice island, not like the Scottish castaway show where they dropped people on some desolate rock that was freezing cold and contantly pelted with rain.)
That’s true. They’d spend all their time sitting around, talking about how evil women are instead of picking bananas on their woman-free island.
So yeah. Stock the island. We need at least two seasons of hilarious MGTOW reality TV!
Will this island still require the MGTOWers to build their own shelters and start their own fires? Because that’s totally misandry, yo.
Ah yes, the “You only have rights because we suffer you having them, so you better do what we want with them” school of thought. Very common in the oppressed I’ve heard.
“The right of free speech does not mean “disagreement-free free speech’”
I’m so sick of people saying, “Free speech!” whenever they’re criticized even slightly. Yes, I think you have the right to say it. I still don’t think you should.
I don’t think you should say it*. I realize that last part might have been unclear.
Also, you have the right to say it, and I have the right to say “well that was dumb”.
wait wait… it’s SPOCK disciple? I’ve been reading it as SOCK disciple this whole time and being rather baffled… *blushes*
He’s the disciple of that one sock. You know, the one that always vanishes in the dryer. It’s a sock going it’s own way.
Hahahaha.. I had a much dirtier impression of Sock Disciple, involving a D/s relationship that should never be.
Cassandra, I laughed at the “taint of Eve” comment, then had to remind myself that volunteering to perform a lobotomy is never a good idea when the co-worker said, again in all seriousness,
“Yeah, but you don’t believe in natural selection and are Socialist* and stuff. You don’t believe in the bible, do you?”
*Because I said the idea of political parties was anachronistic at this point and that letting people die in areas of famine was EVIL.
I have to dodge getting clubbed and dragged back to a cave daily - and this from men who claim to respect and love women.
Love this post, David. Shows how compartmentalized entitled thought processes can be.
I can tell you where our trolls went…the GMP. And they’re trying to get Lisa to agree with their reasoning by stating it so much more reasonably. Which is laughable, considering we know what they post on other sites.
Ah…..PillowinHell….interesting observation.
[Exposing ignorance here.] What is GMP? Sorry if answer is obvious, I did try the Google. http://bit.ly/wvagDL
@ersatzmoons
Actually there are two species of poisonous (not venomous) snakes
http://www.qi.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=11751&start=0&sid=46306d4eaed2d6fddce09a843bf63624
Quackers: I’ve caught this contradiction many times when reading MRA garbage. They claim women were never oppressed, then say things like this, that it was a mistake giving women rights and freedom.
That’s your ladybrain applying hamster logic. Women are like children. The reasonable restrictions (which were so infelicitously referred to as, “cages”) were much as the ways in which children are kept from doing things which we know they are incapable of truly doing safely.
So just as children aren’t allowed to drive, or operate heavy machinery, etc. women should be kept from exercising franchise, living independently of men, etc.
It’s for their own good. Just look at the harm done to the Members of the MRA and the MHGHOW movements. Those men would be sitting pretty if women had just understood how good they had it when they were property.
After a few weeks of reading the articles, you realize that Al Bundy would be considered too much of a mangina, these guys need help. Then again Al at least waits until a woman is at least 30 before dismissing them, doesn’t care if they’re sexually experienced (especially with black men) or have plastic surgery, would find pedophilia and physically hurting women disgusting and as long as they’re not fat, he’s all for them wearing skimpy clothes.
@Cloudiah
I think it refers to the Good Men Project
I’ve kept (and bred) snakes. Snakes are a lot easier to deal with than people. Leave a snake alone, and the snake will leave you alone. Don’t invade the snake’s comfort zone, and you can pretty much handle them without risk.
Don’t look like a threat/don’t look like food, and the snake will leave you alone (some snakes have a much more finicky set of what equals food/danger, this is where education comes into play).
I’ve encountered about half a dozen rattlesnakes in the wild,and none of them have come close to biting me. One of them was almost stepped on by a girlfriend of mine, didn’t care (she did, can’t say as I blame her… she was wearing shorts and sandals; Greyhound having lost her luggage for a couple of days, and Canada not having any deadly snakes).
@Shadow: Thanks! Sorry so obtuse.
What exactly do these guys think “hate” even means? If there is literally nothing women can do that will make us okay in their eyes (or they can’t imagine a woman being okay because they think we’re inherently evil), how can they claim-how can they delude themselves into thinking-that they don’t hate us?
@Cloudiah
The Good Men Project
http://goodmenproject.com/
People are abbreviating it because it comes up a lot in MRA discussions (of how much they hate it and see it as another facet of anti-male feminist propaganda).
@Crumbelievable: Thanks, also, to you. I should have been able to figure that out, but I am terrible at abbreviations/acronyms. I have to memorize so many of them for work, and I think that section of my brain is just full!
Its Good men project. And generally I really enjoy reading it, sometimes things get pointed out that makes me examine feminism in a new light.
Julie Gillis…I don’t mind that men view feminism differently or that they see problems that feminists tend to overlook. That’s a good thing. It just pisses me off to read the trolls trying to put their views out there in a sufficiently vague way that sounds innocuous. Yet go here or the spearhead and watch it all hang out.
Men who like very feminine women are fine. Men who prefer to be the head of the household and find wives who prefer the same thing are fine. There’s nothing inherently wrong about it. It grates that Lisa responds the way she does, because she describes herself as very feminine and it just makes these guys worse.
There’s a couple of posts on there that may be worth mocking right now.
@Cloudiah
Don’t be, they named the angles after me :p
I’m pretty sure that “snake catcher” is a sub-duty of Animal Care and Control in the US. They deal with stray dogs, feral cats, wild animals that make trouble in urban areas, and such.
I was bitten by a poisonous snake before. I was four. I didn’t even see the snake. I ended up in the hospital. But, yeah, it’s not the most common of events, even in the rural area that I grew up in.
But, yeah, it’s not news at all that sexist men think women shouldn’t have rights…
But I thought you said you enjoyed reading GMP? Isn’t that its entire premise?
Is GMPs entire raison de etre sexist? Maybe. A lot of it is just men talking about their experiences. Some of it does seem to attract the MRAs especially now that they have an actual mens rights section. So its really all over the map, but anything to do with porn, gender or law really seems to bring out some of the most sexist thinking. I have a thick skin, but it chafes when I know people are being purposefully disingenuous.
I happened across this post on The Spearhead, courtesy of an MGTOWer
Peter South:
“At MGTOW forums we don’t have this problem. As soon as it is ascertained that a poster is female they are banned. The result is that we have hardly any drama and zero shaming.
I’ve even seen guys make their own videos completely without the help of women. It’s amazing.
Of course Spearhead is more MRA oriented and MRAs are holding out hope for women as “equal” partners, they only want legal reform. MGTOW believes women are fundamentally flawed and cannot be trusted to sit the right way on a toilet seat.
The women who fought for the right to vote and equality were wrong because they are not equal to men physically or mentally. Of course they “want” the right to vote. Lot’s of children would drive your car but you don’t let them because you are bigger and know better, the same principal applies here.”
Surprisingly, this post got more downvotes than upvotes.
@Crumbelievable
Does this mean there’s a bottom that MRAs can hit? Or am I too optimistic?
Whenever an MRA/MGTOWer says something like this, I can’t help but wonder if they would be okay with a system where men are compared to each other in terms of strength and intelligence and only the top X% retain the right to vote.
What?! How did that not get upvoted? Was it too blatant in its sexism? Not enough profanity? Or did the author misjudge how much the men were still looking for a perfect little wimminz?
Oh, I know! You went over and down voted like mad! Amiright?
Um…they’re already pissed because in their eyes only the top X percent get to have sex.
I think they’d trade voting rights for access to women quite happily.
Who said anything about a trade? Live by the arbitrary standard of worthiness to vote, die by the arbitrary yadda yadda.
Seriously, if you proposed denying women the vote, administering an IQ test to the entire adult female population, then administering the same test to the men and denying the vote to all those who scored below the female average (on the grounds that they were no smarter than the average woman and thus no more trustworthy as voters), how many of them would be in favor of it? How many of them are really that confident that men are measurably smarter than women?
“Was it too blatant in its sexism?”
I think it’s the fact that it’s blatant. See the OP here. Saying you hate women = not cool, and misogynistic. Saying that women are by nature untrustworthy = not blatant in exactly hating women, not misogynistic.
Gotta love people who have the courage of their convictions.
“Courage is the pillar upon which all other virtues rest. “
Did anyone else, while reading this posts, have flashbacks to the women’s self defense instructor in King of the Hill? The “I don’t hate men, I hate being a victim” lady? Because that is all I could think of. Only gender-flipped. And not satirical. And not self defense. (And certainly not a class, because that would involve not being on a computer).
Anyway, all this talk of snakes put a song in my head:
I can say that, in the Army, talking in the latrine is common. It carries over; when one is with a fellow soldier, conversations would not be likely to start in the latrine, though they might continue.
I think this is, in part, because in Basic the latrines are the only place on is free of Drill Sergeants.
PFKAE: I laughed too, then the word dissent soaked in, and the bitter humor of, “And this Court gladly obliges” (I wonder if efasfas would chide her for the terminal sentence fragment?), and I too cried.
This:
The women who fought for the right to vote and equality were wrong because they are not equal to men physically or mentally
is hilarious coming right after this:
I’ve even seen guys make their own videos completely without the help of women. It’s amazing.
All I could think about the video comment was some proud little boy showing off a new skill, and this time big sister didn’t help him. What the hell? I mean if were so stoopid and such, why would it be amazing women weren’t there to help?
@Shaenon,
The degree and frequency MRAs contradict themselves is so sad. They are beyond pity.
If you let a snake out of it’s cage it would just slither away if you were standing behind the cage. Now if you tried to have sex with the snake and wanted it to do your laundry…. whole other story. But, of course, that’s the part they leave out.
chibigodzilla
O_o huh
cannot be trusted to sit the right way on a toilet seat.
I am perplexed at this. Is there a “right” way to sit on the toilet seat? It’s pretty straightforward. Is this a “joke”? I’m so very confused…
Absinthe: It’s a comment about the women not liking it when the seat is left up.
Sorry, I’m reading this with a mixed tension migraine coming on and I just can’t help reading that OP’s username as Spotsdickle. Please help me.
Yeah, I really really look forward to the day that Scalia stops being on the bench, it will be a battle royale in the Senate but at least we can get a “moderate” on the bench. Thomas and the others are not old enough and Thomas is just a Scalia clone anyway.
Scalia is an unregenerate hypocrite, a liar and a dishonest sack of shit.
Alito is at almost as bad.
But Scalia… He makes me hope for a day of judgement… I’d love to see his heart weighed in the balance against the Feather of Maat. I’d love to be there to see him at the sifting of the sheep and the goats.
I wonder where Dante would place him.
And I wonder how long it would take him to purge his soul and get out.
Scalia is possibly the most reactionary and intellectually dishonest judge the Supreme Court has ever had. Even McReynolds, who was an unrepentant bigot outside of his job, was a lot better at achieving judicial impartiality. Plus, whenever he is invited to speak before students (who, of course, ask him questions — the nerve!) he acts like a complete and utter asshole.
@Pecunium: I’ve always thought the most fitting punishment for someone like Scalia is to be locked in a room with the people he’s hurt for a week.
While he wears orange. There could be some obfuscating greenery.
Scalia is absolutely dishonest, not just intellectually.
It’s amazing that when he sits down, “as a little child” to look at the intent of the founding fathers, he has yet to find a single case in which they disagreed with his personal politics.
That’s intellectual dishonesty. But in his personal life (esp. where it touches the political) he is no less dishonest. He was one of the people saying Kerry is a bad catholic for looking at the law, as it relates to abortion, and making his decisions based on that, civil, law, instead of canon law.
But Scalia has said he, personally, favors capital punishment, which is something the Catholic Church has made anathema; to at least the level (and arguably moreso) than it opposes abortion (it’s arguable, because it’s issues of doctrine, v.s those of advocacy. The present pope is more opposed to abortion than the death penalty, which was not the case with his predecessor; and the American Catholic Church is far more advocarian in the cause of being anti-choice than anti-death penalty, though they do oppose both).
And yet, when he was opining that Kerry might not be eligible for communion, he goes to the rail every week.
Beams and motes.
What made me furious was his inane claim that was so utterly illogical it took my breath away over there being no reason to reverse a judgment of guilt when new evidence arises showing the defendant is innocent.
He claimed that there was no history behind it. I wanted to take my copy of the Magna Carta and smack him in the nose with it.
Yeah… that and his tap-dances around habeas corpus.
The man is vile, which we all know is just another way to spell Evil.
I was surprised he was so pro-defendant when it came to Crawford then I realised it is because he likes it making things harder for police to stop spousal abuse.
Especially in light of US v Owens.
Yeah, as I like say, Scalia doesn’t even agree with his own rulings half the time, judging by his other rulings. He isn’t even trying to use a messed up way of looking a things and then applying it, he decides what he wants the outcome of the case to be, and lies his way towards it. And, you know for certain that he knows some of this stuff, because he knows it in other cases where it gets him the result he wants.
I have to see footage of that flatworm thing narrated by David Attenborough. If that doesn’t exist on the internet, it should.
“An MGHOW isn’t a misogynist and should never be, he’s a person who doesn’t allow women to impact his life and doesn’t care what women think about him.”
If women don’t impact his life like he boosts then that contradicts their entire premise which whines how women are oppressing them.
“……except for the hours he spends every day complaining about them online.”
“Sorry, I’m reading this with a mixed tension migraine coming on and I just can’t help reading that OP’s username as Spotsdickle. Please help me.”
PFFFFT HAHAHAHAHA!
I am SO going to remember the OP as that from now on.
Strangely enough all MRA/MGTOW tracts make just as much sense with a MTM as without!