Elizabeth Vargas checks into rehab; A Voice for Menners gloat, moralize
He’s very concerned.
So A Voice for Men, classy joint that it is, “reported” yesterday that Elizabeth Vargas of ABC’s 20/20, who interviewed Paul Elam for a 20/20 piece that has yet to air, has checked into rehab in order to deal with her alcoholism. The general reaction of commenters there ranged from “ha ha” to “well, maybe once she’s cured she’ll see how oppressed we men really are.” Those aren’t exact quotes. The exact quotes are below.
Here’s one especially classy exchange. Note the upvotes.
In another comment a bit too long to conveniently screenshot, Laddition explained his position in a bit more detail, winning a few upvotes in the process:
I DO NOT CARE
She doesn’t care about me or my gender, in fact she intended to do material harm to my brothers and I, she has no right to expect any better response from me than that.
If she drains the poison from her soul and comes back as a better person and does better for the other half of humanity, I may have some encouragement for her. Until then; none, nada, nietski, sweet fa.
And why do I hold such an uncharitable view?
Because I think that until women in general understand that there are costs (indifference from men) to their feminist acts, they’ll never see a reason to change. At the moment the best many of them’ll do is cluck at what the ‘extreme’ feminists say and keep taking the goodies provided for them by such harpies over the backs of men.
Men don’t have to hate women, a world of male indifference will be a cold place to be a woman. If you want to be loved and cared for, try being lovable, at the very least.
In a followup comment, he added:
And I hope that the interview with Paul was part of the breakdown and subsequent recognition of the darkness in her own twisted heart. May she benefit from the lesson by going and doing no more evil unto men.
Even the putatively “sympathetic” comments quickly turned into smug little “told-you-sos.”
One commenter even managed to work in a snide reference to Sheryl Sandberg’s “Lean In” slogan:
Elam’s own comment on the story was a small masterpiece of passive-aggressive faux-sympathy:
That’s right, Paul. It’s all about you. And the only reason she was troubled by your hateful shit is because she was a drunkard with no “compassion” for poor oppressed assholes like you.
Elam was once, he says, an addiction counselor. Given his incredible narcissism and clear lack of empathy for at least half of the human race, if not the vast majority of it, it is rather hard to see how he could have been any good at that job.
Posted on November 7, 2013, in a voice for men, antifeminism, are these guys 12 years old?, misogyny, MRA, narcissism, paul elam, taking pleasure in women's pain and tagged 20/20, a voice for men, anti-feminism, antifeminism, elizabeth vargas, men's rights, misogyny, MRA, rehab. Bookmark the permalink. 61 Comments.
Yeah, if that’s your idea of gloating from Paul Elam, and 5 upvotes is significant in your life, then, whatever dude.
You can make some pretty strong cases at times, but this is yet another premature ejaculation on your part.
Wait, the piece hasn’t even aired and they are sure that it will be negative? These guys seem to be gluttons for punishment — not to mention big on schadenfreud. Scary.
But I already am loved and cared for by the men in my life, and they all know I’m a feminist.
RE: not that guy
The damn post hasn’t been up for 24 hours. How many upvotes can we expect? And what would qualify as gloating, in your opinion?
Also, WTF. There are a LOT of people who have ill intent towards me. There are a lot of people I find reprehensible. I have no internal conflict over saying, “I am sorry they are dealing with X; no one should have to go through that, and I hope they get better.” Because I have met precious few people who became nicer and less assholey in times of intense duress.
To try and take someone’s tragedy as laughs is really gross.
@not that guy: The gloating is in the fact that he has made her problem all about him. The subtext of this little blurb is that he feels vindicated that one of the many women who disagree with him only did it because she was a drunkard and bitter.
From the OP: “Because I think that until women in general understand that there are costs (indifference from men) to their feminist acts, they’ll never see a reason to change.”
“… a world of male indifference will be a cold place to be a woman.”
Dude, your love and attention is really not that important. In fact, (and I know this might come as somewhat of a shock) women have their own lives, and they are quite capable of living a life divorced from male attention, and even being PRODUCTIVE despite not being lovable to you. Just ask the women that you think are “fat” or “ugly” or “useless”.
Still around and doing stuff, aren’t they?
Elam: I’m sorry that you’re suffering, I hope that you’ll be okay so that you can come to your senses and not think of me as a misogynistic a-hole.
I can’t say I’m shocked.
About the ‘threat’ of indifference…
Please do. I long for the day MRAs (and mgtows) will finally be indifferent towards women. For now, I just see a bunch of people who are *obsessed* with women.
In my post above, I just wanted to make clear: I didn’t mean that Vargas’ motivation for disagreeing with Elam was ACTUALLY that she was a “drunkard” and “bitter”, but that’s what Elam PERCEIVES it to be.
Sorry if that was worded wrong, I was being careless.
It really is just all about them, isn’t it? MRA’s are a self licking ice cream cone.
Out of curiosity, how many folks here, on hearing about Schwyzer’s latest meltdown, rubbed their hands together and went, “maybe now you’ll be a better feminist!”
Nobody? Yeah, that’s what I thought.
To these guys, wanting to be treated like a human being makes a woman unlovable. Says it all, really.
Also - huge eeeek at Elam ever being an addictions counsellor. My BIL is one. Treatment centres (good ones) are choosy about who they employ and… well, I just can’t see it.
“You can make some pretty strong cases at times, but this is yet another premature ejaculation on your part.”
Are you really that desperate to make a penis joke?
I think I missed the part where Vargas made a personal appeal to Laddition for his sympathy and support.
So That Guy seems to demand Snidely Whiplash levels of mustache twirling while chortling, Mwuahhahah! to call it gloating.
Never mind that the subtext of this is, “thankk goodness people think she’s a soak, so we can say it was all an alcohol-fueled hatchet job, and any way we knew she had it in for us, now we know why”.
Which raises the question, if he was so certain it was going to be a hatchet job why consent to the interview?
Oh, right, he figured he could get attention, and that would cause people to come look at his “satire” and presto, Feminism is ended.
I was actually surprised at Elam’s lack of vitriol, but then I realized that, until the 20/20 special comes out, they could update the content, and not in his favour.
I’M GOING TO POST A 500 WORD RANT TO TELL YOU HOW MUCH I DO NOT CARE ABOUT THIS!! I AM INDIFFERENT.
Is that a thing that feminists frequently point out?
@CassandraSays: It’s almost as if being a feminist doesn’t automatically make one unlovable. It’s almost as if you have other priorities besides making sure people like. Funny, that.
Viscaria - I think it’s a reference to “slut having drunk sex, and then reports it as rape the next day to not lose face”.
Remember, men are being horribly oppressed when feminists educate people on consent, cause that means they can’t fuck the passed out drunk girl. *nodnod*
By “feminists” I assume he means “some woman who I saw saying something that annoyed me”.
Compassion for…who again?
These guys really, REALLY don’t understand what “don’t take advantage of drunk people” mean, do they? Yech.
LBT - It’s not like they have a good record of such. See: “WAAHHH THE DON’T BE THAT GUY CAMPAIGN CALLED ME A POTENTIAL RAPIST!!!” and “What do you mean I can’t fuck drunk people?! Are you calling me a rapist? MY BONER MUST NOT BE IMPEDED!”
“We are the wooooorrrrrld,
We are the childreeeeeeen,
We are gonna fuck their shit
Right up through the ceiliiiiiin’!
And there are terrible things,
Like comedies with funny dads
And sometimes
You can’t
Abandon your childreeeeeen
We are the wooooorrrrrld,
We are the childreeeeeeen,
We are gonna fuck their shit
Right up through the ceiliiiiiin’!
And there are terrible things,
Like boys not beating girls at ev’rything.
We’re gonna make-it-right
We’re gonna show-them-now
With in-dif-fereeeeence
SING IT! SING TOGETHER NOW!
We are the wooooorrrrrld,
We are the childreeeeeeen,
We are gonna fuck their shit
Right up through the ceiliiiiiin’!”
*waves a candle*
SIGH.
For contrast, here is the Box Turtle Bulletin’s response after one of NOM’s directors was injured in an accident.
To be fair, a lot of people, feminists and antifeminists alike, gloated about Schwyzer’s meltdowns. But I don’t recall any gloating comments here. Nor any “maybe now he’ll be a better feminist” posts. Some MRAs, on the other hand, have suggested that now that he’s seen how mean feminists are he’ll want to join them.
It’s also worth pointing out that Vargas’ “crimes” consisted of asking Elam some questions; Schwyzer’s crimes — not in quotes, because he’s confessed to them — include attempted murder of a (now ex) girlfriend and nearly killing another woman while DUI.
I do hope Schwyzer gets the treatment he needs. I also hope he goes to jail.
Viscaria — I think he’s making a very oblique // dog whistle claim about “false accusations”. Since in his twisted worldview, women have drunk sex, regret it in the morning, and call it rape, and feminists are all about sending the poor innocent man to jail.
Totally ninja’ed, I have to learn to hit refresh!
RE: katz
Hey, sadface! We got your present, but I’m like the one person on earth who doesn’t have iTunes, and I really don’t think this borrowed computer can handle the installation. (It is a POS and has refused to install any new programs or devices in months.) Do you or any other Boobzers know if I can get my prezzy without having to be devoured by Apple software through someone else’s computer?
They really think this has something to do with 20/20 not airing the piece on the MRM? In addition to being asshats, they really do not understand how the world works.
Remember, these are people who think that THEY stalled the reauthorization of VAWA because obstructionist Republicans blocked its passage due to the addition of protections for gay and immigrant women.
Good point, Chie, good point.
Is it possible researching the MRA drove Vargas to drink?
Just kidding. Sort of.
I respect Elizabeth Vargas, and I am confident with a little help she’ll get this in hand.
Elam as an addiction counselor is terrifying. I have been in and out of rehab and many people, including myself at times, just want someone to blame for their addiction. If you constantly blame someone else for everything that is wrong it can be incredibly hard to take the steps needed to better yourself. I just imagine him egging people on about how it is their ex-wife’s fault or their female boss that is the problem. Or if he counseled women? I can’t imagine it.
Aww, I’m sorry! I wasn’t sure if you needed itunes to receive it or not. I don’t want to make you get itunes because it totally sucks but it was the only way I was aware of to send that sort of thing.
I feel so tormented!
And I feel bad for being unable to accept your (totally awesome) present!
All the sad emotes.
@Tracy
Yeah, that got a serious “nopetopus” reaction from me.
Not That Guy, that premature ejaculation joke was a real stretch. It was a long stretch. It was a long, hard stretch. Also, he didn’t even say Elam was gloating. Also, you came too early.
This comment is also about penises.
Anyway, I for one hope that Hugo Schwyzer becomes less of a toxic, manipulative, abusive human being as a result of his trials, but that’s probably too much to hope for. I mostly hope he’ll just shut up.
Wait a minute. Can you hear that? That distant quaking, as if the earth were shaking only slightly, but all around you? That’s the sound of Vargas quaking in her boots at the thought of Laddition’s ostentatious indifference.
My immediate reaction is “Argenti will know what to do.”
Even though there is no particular reason for that to be true.
I second MaudeLL, who said:
Yes. Indifference would be great. Actually going their own way? That would be great. I really hope this isn’t an idle “threat.”
And seconding the WTF?!? to Paul Elam once being an addiction counselor.
And way to stay classy, not that guy!
Has Elam ever discussed how his history as a counselor is related to his activism? Did he bring (or does he claim to have brought) a men’s rights perspective to his counseling? That’d be horrifying.
I wish Vargas all the best. I hope she has a lot of supportive people in her life, and doesn’t have to hear shit like these guys are spewing.
@Karalora
Also, being unlovable makes you not deserve to be treated like a human being.
@Pecunium
You give him more credit than I do. My version would have gone something like ” that would cause people to come look at his “satire” and get all mad about “misandry” and give him more donations and interviews and attention.”
@Viscaria
Right? I thought that was the MRA “it wasn’t rape” party line.
OMG you keep coming up with better and better pictures of Elam.
Quoth Paul “bash a violent bitch” “fucking their shit up gives me an erection” “they’re fucking begging to be raped” “vote not guilty at all rape trials” Elam.
Pots and kettles.
N’thing the “male indifference” comments. I don’t want romantic or sexual attention from men (or anyone else). The very idea makes my skin crawl. Because of course Paulyboy isn’t talking about friendship between equals, or simple human decency, is he? Can’t have that idea infecting his maggotty little brain.
Because women can’t love or care for other women, no way. Only MEN can do such a thing! Otherwise we’ll all… be jerks? Or something?
And of course men can only care for women conditionally, if those women are
Stepford Wiveslovable enough.All that a woman does? For a man.
If she decides to wear heels, it’s for a dude. If she chooses not to, it’s ALSO for a dude. Become an alcoholic? A dude is involved. Go into rehab? Oh, you should thank a dude!
*roll eyes* *raises lots of sarcasm hands*
emilygoddess: You give him more credit than I do. My version would have gone something like ” that would cause people to come look at his “satire” and get all mad about “misandry” and give him more donations and interviews and attention.”
I was being sarcastic. I think he went, “TV? I’ve made the big time!”, and no further thought took place until he was done with the interview and a smidgeon of self-awareness surfaced to make him say, “shit, I look like a douch. Those fucking women set me up.”
Well, if one of you would clue me in on what’s going on, I might
(just no more PHP, dear gods no more PHP today)
I was trying to send LBT something through itunes and it wasn’t working. But we got it sorted.
Indifferent, my ass. That’s the last thing these boys are.
If they’re so indifferent towards feminists and uppity women, WHY ARE THEY STILL TALKING ABOUT US???
Lili Fugit - Because misogyny is their fuel?
Katz — well glad it’s sorted then
I’d like to expend a couple of paragraphs’ worth of energy explaining why I find these guys’ position bothersome (so far as I am concerned) and untenable (from their own point of view). What they keep reiterating is that they can’t be expected to care about Elizabeth Vargas as long as she doesn’t care about them. The tenor is: “if you won’t prop me up, don’t expect me to prop you up, sweetie.” And, so far as that statement goes, I think everything in it is fair. What they’re saying, collectively, is that they’re not in love with Elizabeth Vargas and that they sense that no love is directed at them from her. What puzzles me is that they leave this implication floating around that there’s an injustice involved. (Illustration: when a dude starts a message out with the header “I Do Not Care” and superadds about 225 words to that sentiment, obviously something is amiss. He may not care about the woman he refers to but it’s evident that he cares about something.)
What does he care about? That’s the thing which irritates me. He doesn’t care about Elizabeth Vargas, that I believe. But he does care whether she thinks well of him — in fact he expects her to think well of him as a matter of course. She’s a woman — isn’t it her duty to think highly of men? (And of him, as a man?) Isn’t it her duty to look up to them? (And to him, likewise?) Isn’t it her duty to see his side of every story, whether or not he’s willing to admit that her side of the same story exists? Isn’t it her duty to provide him with emotional support at all times, on the supposition that if they were both stuck together on the Titanic he wouldn’t pitch her over the side but would help her into a lifeboat in a gentlemanly manner? (Never mind how that situation worked out in RL.) Well, as with this one guy, so with them all. He is the canary in the mine and the indicator of the common malady. Which is: these guys to be allowed to come from a neutral position in which (naturally) they can’t be expected to give a drat about anybody who hasn’t done anything directly in their favor. (“What have you done for me lately?”) But Elizabeth Vargas, qua female, isn’t permitted the same neutrality. She’s supposed to be suffused with kindliness for all men just on the basis that they exist, and these guys suffer, really suffer, at the notion that she isn’t. (Another thing these people keep repeating, in various forms, with knit brows, is: “Don’t force me to think less of women than I do.” But honestly I think they’d be much less grumpy if they counted on less.)
Laddition’s comment tickles me. I can’t help but imagine a bunch of manosphere guys feigning indifference and waiting desperately for some woman, somewhere, to care.
Hey, fellas, why’nt you try holding your breath til you turn blue? That’s sure to make
mommy’swomen love you!Well, I’m not sure that’s fair because there’s a level of basic human empathy involved. See the example further up of the Box Turtle Bulletin wishing a NOM spokesman a speedy recovery. It’s frequently forgotten - to an extent it’s natural to conflate hateful ideas with the person speaking them, and thus to see injury to a person spreading hurtful ideas as a good thing - but if you have some practice at seeing the shared humanity of people and wanting the best for everyone, it’s easier.
Elam’s clearly not very good at it; he knows that’s what you’re supposed to do if you’re concerned about people’s rights, but he just can’t help wondering whether this’ll help him advance his argument. This is likely the only way he’ll advance his argument given that it’s mostly built on lies.
Look at TIME’s Christ Christie cover, a whole lot of feminists got into their shit for making an issue of his weight.
Impossible, Pecunium. Women don’t care about men!