Redditors: “Gamer girls” need to stop complaining about being called sluts and whores
Yeah, why would anyone want gamer dudes to modify their behavior in any way? From Fat, Ugly or Slutty. Click image for the original post.
So the top post in the Men’s Rights subreddit for a time yesterday, with hundreds of upvotes, was a post devoted to the question: “Why should male gamers change their behavior?” Yep, apparently the sacred right of men and boys to harass women and girls on Xbox live is one of the most important Men’s Rights issues of the day. Here’s how the OP, IsItRacistToAsk, framed the issue:
[G]amers themselves (until relatively recently) were a 90% male community. This goes back really far if you count non-video-game games (like Dungeons and Dragons and the like). Now all of a sudden they’re expected to just behave differently because some girls want to join?
I’m not saying girls shouldn’t be welcome in gaming communities, I’m just comparing them to someone who shows up, uninvited, to a house party and demands everyone go out and get blue plastic cups because red offends her.
Well, no, it’s more like a girl or a woman going to a public event, open to everyone, and facing a small army of creepy dudes who come up to her making sandwich jokes and calling her a bitch and a whore and a fat slut and demanding that she show her tits and when she refuses telling her “I hope your vibrator shorts out and fries your fucking vagina.”
The OP’s response to harassment? Well, guy gamers regularly get called “faggot” and “n*gger,” so girls and women should just suck it up.
Yeah, it would be too much to ask to suggest that guy gamers actually stop calling each other racist and homophobic slurs as well. Because, really, how can you possibly enjoy Call of Duty without calling some guy who’s just shot you a “fag.” Seriously, gals, you need to model yourselves on the mostly straight white dudes of Reddit who really don’t mind when people call them “n*ggers” and “fags.”
The discussion (more than 700 comments worth at the moment) is about as terrible as you might expect, filled with epic shitlordery and self-congratulation and calls for the gals to “man the fuck up,” with only a handful of commenters having anything bad to say about the culture of harassment in online gaming. Indeed, most of the gamers in the conversation seem to feel proud that online gaming culture is as shitty as it is.
Some highlights:
JonLR won himself more than a hundred upvotes for this self-congratulatory assholery:
By asking to never be made fun of, they’re essentially asking for special treatment. These days, ‘gamer girls’ go on and on about wanting to be treated like everyone else, but then cry when they are?
I used to play Quake 1 online, and a lot of the players knew I was short (5’7″). I got called a fucking midget every game, haha. My asian clanmate got called a chink every game. Fat people got called fat, girl players got called sluts, everyone made fun of everyone. No one cared. It was all aimed at throwing people off their game.
What the fuck happened in the past 15 years that made it the worst thing imaginable to insult a girl in gaming? Whatever it was, it’s embarrassing to witness.
Oneiorosgrip got nearly two hundred upvotes for her special snowflaking:
I’m not a video gamer - long time tabletop gamer though…
Remembering when I was the only girl in the group, it strikes me that modern gamer girls are spoiled princesses who expect to walk a path they did not forge, without ever seeing any of the dirt along the side. Those of use who played before there was internet, before there was linking between video game systems… before there were RPGs on video game systems, for that matter… we didn’t earn our place among the gaming community by whining about shit like that. You had to be able to take it, and dish back, or you took your dice and went home.
I took my dice and went home only once, and found that to be a wholly unsatisfying response. After that, I learned to eschew restraint and mouth off in kind. That was more effective, and more fun, and I think it would be the more appropriate handling of today’s gaming environment, as well.
In other words, IMO, modern girl gamers really just need to man the fuck up.
Men’s Rights subreddit regular Demonspawn was his normal charming self:
Men take the shit to make a niche, once it’s successful women want to take it over.
This is the world order, nothing new about it. I’m just glad that gamers are finally saying “No.”
Sidetracking got dozens of upvotes for suggesting that women and girls just hide their identity and pretend to be guys, because gamer girls who acknowledge their gender online are just attention whores hungry for female privilege anyway:
When anybody plays a video game, without talking, they are pretty much concealed. Nobody really knows what gender, age, etc. In real life, girls expect this privileged talking, because people want to engage in intercourse with them, however, over a video game, this privilege is gone. In order to get the privilege back they say “Hey, I’m a girl”, not knowing that this privilege is completely removed over the internet. Then they get over-sensitized when someone calls them a bad name, when they don’t realize that pretty much everyone calls anyone out over the internet.
Daysleepin83 also got dozens of upvotes for talking about the kinds of “gamer girls” he hates the most: The ones who complain and the ones who, evidently,wear no clothes.
For the most part i really don’t give two shits about what sex my opponent is.
But there are two types of “gamer girls” that really piss me off. There are those like Anita Sarkeesian who seem to bitch and nag about all that is sexist and wrong with video games. Doesn’t really offer any solution to the problems she digs up, aside from telling us we need to change. …
Then there is the second group, they don’t so much as piss me off but more like aggravate me. The sexy gamer girl. … Could she be a legitimate gamer? Sure of course she could be. I could also one day become the Pope. Till she puts some clothing on and picks up that controller i am not going to take her serious as a gamer.
MrDorph explained that he hates those “girl gamers” who “have to shove down your throat.” (Shove what? Your own assholery?)
The issue I have is girl gamers who have to shove down your throat. I imagine the majority just don’t give a shit and tend not to talk or if they do its not provocative. The moment I hear “hey guys” I leave, I can’t be bothered with the shit storm that comes with it.
Ghebert001 told the “poor things” to get used to shitty treatment, in online gaming and everywhere else:
Bottom line is women need to learn to adapt to the “environment” (environment meaning gaming community, workplace, etc.) instead of always expecting that the “environment” adapt to them and use language like “it makes me uncomfortable” to shame others in that “environment” to accommodate them at their own expense.
Throwing in the obligatory, “women” =/= all women…don’t want to offend the poor things. Oh wait, there I go accommodating again!
Yourotherusername wins points for pomposity with this response to the OP:
Well put. Like many things, the environment of gaming has it’s own language. It isn’t the language of Shakespeare or high-finance. It’s high context communication. It’s code. It isn’t (usually) to be take at face value. The problem for the people who complain, is that the marketers who attracted them to play the game, didn’t tell them how the game is played and the vocabulary needed.
If a person hangs out with a group of people not in their normal click, they need to understand that what is being said, might not actually be what was meant, and until they grasp the context, they need to keep their mouth shut if they don’t want to look like an asshole. I’d much rather ‘learn the language’ than try to change a sub-culture.
Take reddit for example. Expect masturbation jokes. Expect memes. Expect stereotypes. But in all of that, you will find that once you adapt and understand the context, it becomes more than a middle school locker room (especially in the smaller subreddits). IF you are so bold as to challenge the nature of communication on Reddit by admonishing others and trying to get them to change their way, you will be anathema, and most likely down voted to hell. The best you can do to change the language, is to be an example of what you want, and hope to flying spaghetti monster, that it catches on.
TLDR: Go with the flow or don’t go at all.
Reddit: Awful and proud of it.
Meanwhile, elsewhere on the Men’s Rights subreddit, someone has once again posted a link to the “The Catalogue of Anti-Male Shaming Tactics,” because god forbid anyone ever say anything “shaming” about MRAs for being the shitty people they are.
Like this:
Posted on August 18, 2012, in antifeminism, are these guys 12 years old?, bullying, douchebaggery, dozens of upvotes, girl germs, harassment, hundreds of upvotes, irony alert, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, oppressed men, oppressed white men, reddit, sexual harassment, shaming tactics, sluts, the c-word, vaginas, whores and tagged bullying, feminism, gamer girls, girl gamers, harassment, men's rights, misogyny, MRA, reddit. gaming, sexual harassment. Bookmark the permalink. 311 Comments.
Oh, and it finally did get to the point where I simply didn’t want to play board games with him anymore, because it became an exercise in ultimate boredom for me. He was convinced that I must be having an affair with a coworker or someone because I didn’t want to spend “quality time” playing games with him anymore. Yep, no awareness whatsoever.
@Pam: Wow, that’s horrible. I admit to having acute periods of frustration and anger when I’m losing a game by a wide margin, but I don’t sulk about it for days, I move on.
It sounds like you don’t have to deal with him anymore, and if so, that’s great.
I was just lurking and haven’t posted before, but I’ve got to say that this must o be the most staggering example of obvious hypocrisy on the site this week, and that’s saying something. Someone posting under a male name (it’s not common in my part of the world, but I’m pretty sure “Phil” is a man’s name) telling women that revealing your gender means that you think you’re special because of your gender.
Howe about you Phil? I think everybody here figured out you must be male from your very first post, simply by noticing that you present yourself with a male name and talk about women in a way that indicated that you didn’t consider yourself one of them. That’s how most women are found out too, they post using female names, speak with a female sounding voice, their pictures reveal a female looking face, and/or they talk about something which indirectly clues people in on their gender.
In fact, it took me a lot longer to figure out the genders of most of the regular posters here, and I still haven’t figured out half of them. You’re presenting yourself a lot more gendered, and revealing your gender a lot more clearly, than most of the female posters here. So by revealing your gender, are people here supposed to conclude that you think you’re special because of your gender? Do you expect to not have to adapt? Do you demand that people accommodate your special needs? If not, why are you revealing your gender?
Dragon Age: Origins had three out of seven female companions, four of eight if you got a specific DLC (ignoring Dog).
Dragon Age: Awakening had two out of six female companions (ignoring Mhairi, since she dies like right away).
Dragon Age 2 had three out of six female companions, three of seven if you got a specific DLC (ignoring your sibling, since they can be male or female depending on your choice of class).
Not terrible numbers, but not exactly inspiring. And the Dragon Age series is one of the more progressive.
@Falconer:
Yeah, I didn’t count sequels to specific games because I didn’t want to get into the ton of spin-offs and whatnot. X-2 is a pretty good example of how even when game designers DO use lots of female characters, they fuck it up.
Yeah, I was trying to figure this out and couldn’t make it work, but that link you posted matches eerily. (Off the top of my head: Tifa is sexy, Aeris is responsible, Yuffie is childlike; Rinoa is sexy, Quistis is responsible, Selphie is childlike; Lulu is sexy, Yuna is responsible, Rikku is childlike; Fran is sexy, Ashe is responsible, Penelo is childlike; Fang is sexy, Lightning is responsible, Vanille is childlike.)
The question is whether that’s intentional or just the result of deeply ingrained ideas. Probably a little of both.
@Falconer:
You are correct, I don’t have to deal with him (or my 1st husband) anymore, as I survived both of them (the 1st was result of injuries incurred in automobile accident…. he was the drunk driver in that case, and the 2nd was due to complications arising from physical illness), and yes, as hard-hearted as it may sound, it is great that I don’t have to deal with either of them anymore. The effort of having to always diminish myself in order to appease/uphold their fragile egos in almost every facet of our everyday lives (“gaming” was just one small area where this occurred) was way beyond tiring and tedious. I have been “flying solo” for a little over 20 years now, and loving every minute of it.
I just lost a big long response. So, you guys will be spared further “ignorant” responses from this “asshole”.
^If it’s any consolation, you’ve just given us all strong evidence that there is a God.
Oh noes, whatever shall we do! Maybe if you didn’t keep repeating the same failed points, you’d cut your comment size in half?
Kinda sucks though, you were keeping us (or, at least, me).. “entertained”. The massive geek that I am, I get excited whenever games or RPGs or whatever comes up because I love talking about them. Trolls are like the bestest excuse to do that ever. Oh well!
It’s ok, we can guess what you were going to say:
Women should stop being all… all… female if they want to participate in things like the rest of us human beings!
Rape and death threats are just part of an enjoyable gaming experience, suck it up and deal!
Get back in the kitchen and get me a sandwitch, bitch, and if it’s a good sandwitch I’ll let you play Wii Bowling and Harvest Moon as those are acceptable games for females.
Letting women play games means that my boner wont be coddled, AND THAT’S OPPRESSING MALE SEXUALITY YOU MISANDRISTS.
Only with more excess words. I think the Internet (as its own entity) didn’t want to put up with another long “No Gurlz Alowd in Jamez Rume (unlez samwhich maykr)” screed.
Okay, just a couple of parting points.
1). You guys are an upstanding example of how people in a “in group” should treat outsiders. So far I’ve been repeatedly called “ignorant”, an “asshole”, and generally talked down to. But I guess since none of you threatened me with rape, it’s not the same. Plus I have male privilege so I basically deserve it.
Maybe I should gather some masculists and we can come over to this site, talk about the way we’re harassed, and force you guys to censor the way you talk to us?
It’s just ironic that in your righteous indignation with me, just for disagreeing with you, a good portion of you treated me the same way you complain female gamers are treated.
2). The problem I have, and I’ll reiterate here, isn’t the “anti-harassment” angle that you guys are taking. It’s the fact that it won’t stop there. Many of you have expressed your desire to suppress female objectification in games. Which is wrong, according to the following subpoints.
a). Objectification is intrinsically tied to human sexuality. When you’re with a member of the opposite sex, and it’s business time (another FotC quote, yes), you will likely objectify the person as part of the sexual experience. This is why lingerie and role playing exist, and also leather man-thongs.
Let’s say you’re married to someone. You might know they occasionally have bad breath, or they clog the toilet every now and again, or they were depressed for a couple of years in college and almost killed themselves. All of that stuff makes them who they are, and knowing those things might make the relationship more intimate, but they fly right out the window when you’re in your business socks, and it’s time for business.
b). To see the absurdity of this, imagine if we wanted to censor female sexual objectification. Of course, no one thinks to do that, because all women are angels (har har), but…
How often do you guys complain about the objectification of a man’s body, or a man’s status in things like romance novels? Or how often do you complain about the objectification of men in, oh, say video games just as a random example of things in which men are objectified.
This isn’t a “what about the menz” complaint either, because I couldn’t give a crap less if women objectify men. If they enjoy it, then good for them. Admittedly, this might be because of my male privilege, though.
In the same way, yeah, a man can be aroused by a woman in skimpy clothes. Men are very visual. And while objectification CAN be a bad thing, it isn’t necessarily so.
So basically what I boils down to is, if you want to stop people from saying mean sh*t to you, great. I’ll help shut up the dbags. If you then want to go further and censor developers and force people to live in fear of expressing themselves in a way that isn’t inappropriate but which you told them was inappropriate because you personally don’t like it, well then I’m not on board anymore.
I’m not just assuming that it’ll get taken too far either. This sort of divide-and-dominate tactic happens wherever you see women come into a space and start playing the “I’m a harassed victim” card. For instance, in the atheist movement, freethoughtblogs started censoring bloggers and shifting the focus away from freethought and skepticism and atheism towards feminism and shutting up anyone who disagrees. Now, I do get a sick sort of enjoyment out of watching the atheist movement implode due to this influence, but I don’t want to watch the same thing happen to video games.
Live in fear! Of the feminist death squads that will for sure show up and shoot you dead on the spot if we in any way try to address sexism in video games. This does not at all make you sound like a paranoid idiot, Phil. Nope, nothing hilarious to mock here!
I’ll go make some popcorn while the rest of you rev up your mockery engines.
Kinda says a lot that you think the whole point of female characters are to sexually arouse people and people who know what a good story looks like thinks the point of female characters are to be unique and varied individuals with their own traits, flaws, strengths, weaknesses and to help drive the plot and be part of the world of the story. Y’know, like male characters.
We don’t object to sexy characters. There are plently of people who are and enjoy being sexy. What we object to are when characters, and this applies overwhelmingly to female characters, are put there as ‘sexy set dressing’ and have minimal impact on plot. Or they do impact on plot, but their main traits are ‘sexy, sexy, sensual, sexy’. Or where female characters behave unrealistically to facilitate sexy - high heels and loose, very revealing draped tops for hand-to-hand combat, idle animations for female characters that involve wiggling and jiggling.
Ok Phil. Here’s the deal. No married couples do not necessarily objectify each other just because they are having sex. To truly objectify, one would have to place their needs as first and behave as though the other is only an object you’re interacting with and they don’t have their own set of complex needs and feelings etc. Do some people do this? Yes, they are called bad lovers.
Point two, we are not married to or in an intimate relationship with Pop Culture.
Point three. Yes, when the principles of objectifying are laid out, that can apply to men, so yeah, go nuts. Nobody is stopping anyone from doing this, but point four…
You strip away the context that women have had limited roles, and still do and objectification for wimminz in popular culture is most of the time the ONLY way they get portrayed. This reinforces the cultural norm that women are less than a whole person, or they are limited people for a limited purpose, ones that strip them of humanity and put them in a subservient role to the DEFAULT gender, male.
Point five, that you don’t get this basic truth and these basic elements demonstrates that you are out of your zone here, and have no idea what you’re talking about or protesting.
and finally point six. Why focus on what people have called you? “Ignorant” OH NO!!!
Well guess what I think you’re a honkey, too.
XD
While Phil is getting butthurt about being insulted, here’s another one to add to the list - Phil, you’re a prude. Seriously, wtf was that shit about how terrible it is that women have casual sex, and do you not see how hilarious it is that you can be that prudish and then turn around and insist that gratuitous T&A is essential to gaming culture?
If you want an environment in which men’s right to objectify women is completely unquestioned, because that’s what the environment is for, that is a thing that exists. It’s called a strip club - go to one, and stop whining about the fact that women are getting their girl cooties all over your video games.
Oh! He came back!
And i’m going to constantly refresh the post so I don’t get ninja’d, hah.
You guys are an upstanding example of how people in a “in group” should treat outsiders.
No, we’re an upstanding example of how people in an “in group” react when someone from elsewhere comes in with a statement that they know will (or don’t know will, but we’ve seen a million times) be inflammatory. Like blaming women for not doing more to stop their own harrassment.
Or how often do you complain about the objectification of men in, oh, say video games just as a random example of things in which men are objectified.
Stereotypes and bad characterisation for men in games do exist (you won’t get any argument from us that bad characterisation exists all round and better writers are needed for a lot of things), but they aren’t objectified nearly as much. Also, the fantasies based around men still target men, eg. power fantasies. And the default for male characters (at least, white, straight etc ones) is still treating them as full 3d characters rather than just focusing on one facet of their being.
On the other hand, women who aren’t based around some stereotype, fantasy (for men!) or bad characterisation are the exception, not the default.
This isn’t a “what about the menz” complaint either, because I couldn’t give a crap less if women objectify men.
Of course you don’t, because the objectification of a man (at least a white, cis, straight etc, because there’s intersectionality issues here) just doesn’t have the same weight as the objectification of a woman; there’s no power behind it.
..objectification..
You.. you need to go learn what objectification is. Like creativewritingstudent says, finding someone attractive =/= objectification. Being attracted to someone doesn’t stop you treating them as a human being. Penises aren’t magic mind control devices.
For instance, in the atheist movement, freethoughtblogs started censoring bloggers and shifting the focus away from freethought and skepticism and atheism towards feminism and shutting up anyone who disagrees. Now, I do get a sick sort of enjoyment out of watching the atheist movement implode due to this influence, but I don’t want to watch the same thing happen to video games.
Oh.. you’re one of those people.
So, in summary, things Phil doesn’t understand are as follows:
1. Objectification
2. Freethoughtblogs
3. Feminism
4. EVERYTHINGARGLEBARGLE
Has anyone ever done an Objectification For Dummies guide? It seems like we need one, what with all the dudes who don’t appear to understand that it doesn’t mean “being attracted to someone”.
So let me get this straight…. When women receive graphic rape and death threats (including from men who make it a point to state that they know where the woman live), that’s no big deal? But when a man/company is told by someone that their portrayal of female characters is bad, that’s the same as forcing them to live in fear of expressing themselves?
So basically “We need to fight the people trying to end harassment of women, because if they get their way, they might end up subjecting men to something which is only a fraction as bad?”. What is it with men being so frail they can’t handle the least bit of criticism without feeling like they’re being denied their fundamental humanity, while women are supposed to be able to just shrug off dozens, or hundreds, of messages telling them they’re fucking cunts and should be raped to death?
thank you AB, well put. (and everyone else too, I really liked ABs though)
This can’t be pointed out enough. I feel like quoting you again, but I’m right under you… I think…
If I really thought you were leaving this would be a bit of a wank in public, but I’m pretty sure you’ll poke your head back in.
1). You guys are an upstanding example of how people in a “in group” should treat outsiders. So far I’ve been repeatedly called “ignorant”, an “asshole”, and generally talked down to. But I guess since none of you threatened me with rape, it’s not the same. Plus I have male privilege so I basically deserve it.
In plainer English…. “Waaaah!, you were mean to me.”
Suck it up and deal. Tone trolling is pathetic. It’s a cheap trick and ultimately pointless. Is there a dynamic here? Of course. Is it friendly to people who say women should be willing to suffer because they are women (which has been a core tenet of your arguments in every subject you have addressed)? No. And it shouldn’t be.
But we have addressed your points. We may not have coddled your little ego and pretended there was some merit to them. We may have called you an idiot; but that’s because we don’t think they have any merit, and we think you are an idiot.
But we did more than that, which is why this is different from the gamers you are defending.
It’s just ironic that in your righteous indignation with me, just for disagreeing with you, a good portion of you treated me the same way you complain female gamers are treated.
No, it’s not, as I said above.
Maybe I should gather some masculists and we can come over to this site, talk about the way we’re harassed, and force you guys to censor the way you talk to us?
Go for it. We could use some more cat’s paws. Because I doubt they will be as well mannered as you have been. It’s not as if it would be the first time a group of men with their egos in their hands came here to try it.
They will get what you got; treatment in good faith until that extension of faith was shown to be lacking (to be honest, some people manage to show that lack of faith in the first comment; they get shorter shrift).
Is this a hostile place to people like you? Yes, because you don’t think women should be treated like people.
2). The problem I have, and I’ll reiterate here, isn’t the “anti-harassment” angle that you guys are taking. It’s the fact that it won’t stop there. Many of you have expressed your desire to suppress female objectification in games. Which is wrong, according to the following subpoints.
No, it’s not. You don’t understand what objectification is. It’s reducing a person to nothing but what they can do for you. It’s seeing them as a thing, not a person. It can be sexual, it can be racial, it can be labor-related.
Seeing someone as, “sexy” isn’t objectification. The difference in how games present male characters (variable, with aspects that don’t relate to sex; in reasonable clothing for the environment; and possessed of complex motives and abilities) is in stark contrast to the ways they present women (scantily clad; on spaceships and on battlefields, ditsy, hesitant, etc.). If they were doing it to everyone that would be one thing, but they don’t, and the differences are foul.
How often do you guys complain about the objectification of a man’s body, or a man’s status in things like romance novels? Or how often do you complain about the objectification of men in, oh, say video games just as a random example of things in which men are objectified.
Showing, still, that you don’t understand objectification. It’s not thinking someone is sexy. It’s thinking sex is all they are good for.
This isn’t a “what about the menz” complaint either, because I couldn’t give a crap less if women objectify men. If they enjoy it, then good for them. Admittedly, this might be because of my male privilege, though.
It is (though I doubt that last sentence was honestly made). You have never been objectified in a sexual way. No, I take that back, you may have been, but you didn’t have it happen often enough to understand; and the odds are if you did it was by someone who repelled you (being objectified tends to make the objectifier a lot less attractive) and you turned them down; without realising that was part of the equation.
Which is a function of being male. It happens to men so rarely they fail to see it for what it is.
For instance, in the atheist movement, freethoughtblogs started censoring bloggers and shifting the focus away from freethought and skepticism and atheism towards feminism and shutting up anyone who disagrees. Now, I do get a sick sort of enjoyment out of watching the atheist movement implode due to this influence, but I don’t want to watch the same thing happen to video games.
Citation needed. Because this is news to me. What I see is a lot of people all complainy ass and offended that Skepchick called them out for being douchecanoes and assholes; and the majority saying, “we’re cool with that.”
So basically what I boils down to is, if you want to stop people from saying mean sh*t to you, great. I’ll help shut up the dbags.
No you won’t. Because shutting them up requires excising the treating of women as nothing more than sexual objects in games.
I’m not just assuming that it’ll get taken too far either. This sort of divide-and-dominate tactic happens wherever you see women come into a space and start playing the “I’m a harassed victim” card.
Which is why you won’t. You’re one of the douchebags.
Ooooh, boy, do I have citations on that one.
Not proving his point, of course. His point is stupid. But I can point you to some absolutely heart-wrenching stuff on people being forced out of movements they love by rampant racism and misogyny.
Yeah. Anybody who can look in there and feel that the fault lies on those who have endured harrassment and marginalization….?
Asshole.
Bring it on!!!
Going along with your example, the problem surrounding female objectification in games isn’t that female characters are garbed in lingerie and male characters are sporting leather man-thongs during or in preparation for “business time, it’s that outside of “business time”, when female and male characters are engaged in same or similar activities far removed from “business time”, female characters continue to be decked out in lingerie while the male characters have abandoned their leather man-thongs and are suited in clothing more appropriate to the task at hand.
I may wear a teddy, fishnet stockings and stiletto boots/shoes when engaging in “business time” with a partner who is clad in a leather man-thong, but if we are engaged in a different activity…. oh, say, on the roof of my house cleaning the gutters…. I abandon my “business time” apparel for something a little more appropriate for the job, and so does he. Now, if those activities were depicted in a video game, I would be cleaning the gutters dressed in my “business time” outfit, while my partner would be dressed in trousers and shirt. Male characters are equipped for a multitude of varying tasks, as males are uniquely capable of performing a variety of things, but female characters are equipped for “business time” only, as that is females’ sole purpose and capability (outside of making sammiches, of course).
I guess a “shorter Pam” would be:
Male characters in games, much like males IRL, are multi-dimensional, whereas female characters in games, much like females IRL, are (or ought to be) one-dimensional.
I love it when the trolls say something that is plainly and obviously true, but think that because they said it sarcastically it makes it not true.
Yes, Phil, calling someone ignorant or an asshole is substantially different than threatening to rape them. This is not a difficult concept to grasp.
And if you’re wondering why we think you’re ignorant, it’s because you do things like assert that RPGs feature an overrepresentation of female characters with absolutely no evidence to back it up and then ignore when people point out how incredibly and verifiably wrong you are. We call you ignorant because you repeatedly demonstrate a shocking ignorance of the very issues you’re talking about.
Perhaps he should be employed as Todd Akins’ speech writer.
Tangeant Attack! Dun dun duuuuun.
Harvest Moon keeps coming up and it makes me want to play it (I did play some once and it was teh funz), though I don’t have a DS or any idea which one out of the series is the best. :O
Also, tackling random idiots on the internet is so much easier than confronting your friends about stuff. I’m trying to get my point across to my friend at the minute… trying to persuade him that using offensive language/jokes = bad, even if people don’t actually believe the stuff they say.
Well, not so much persuading, as he gets that concept, But he’s stuck in the “middle/indifference” position of “equality = good, offending people = bad, free speech = good, and I want to say stuff and not have people get angry at me, and change = hard”.
Because i’m massively useless and crap, I basically just threw some links to blog posts explaining things at him and ran away. I’m talking (typing) to him now and trying to go over some points and stuff, but i’m beyond rubbish at talking to people.
There were a few good points. But I’m tired and I probably won’t come back to this thread. It was good talking to you guys.
That’s what you did in Patriactionary too. Waltzed out with your arguments abandoned.
FFX-2 is FFV with one less dude. In FFV, when you change job classes, your sprite changes clothes. CAlling a Job class a dress sphere does not make it stop being a job class.
FFX-2 is actually one of square’s better final fantasies for this, frankly; the women are all pro-active rather than passively waiting to react to the villain, the costumes average out around average (Although I’ll certainly grant that the three default classes aren’t great)
‘censoring bloggers’ != ‘kicking bloggers off their network’. Censorship can only be done by the government. It’s in the damn definition. Fucking pathetic, if this is what you are trying.
And no, the atheism movement is not ‘imploding’ due to feminism. In all probability, it will grow stronger as it stops being so damn focused on Able, Neurotypical Honky mcstraighterson III. Everyone else got the rest pretty well, seems like.
[quote]Citation needed. Because this is news to me. What I see is a lot of people all complainy ass and offended that Skepchick called them out for being douchecanoes and assholes; and the majority saying, “we’re cool with that.”[/quote]
There’s definitely a non-zero number of assholes who want feminist atheists to, you know, stop being feminist.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/2012/08/how-i-unwittingly-infiltrated-the-boys-club-why-its-time-for-a-new-wave-of-atheism/
But I’m not buying that atheism is under threat of dying due to DEEP RIFTS.
The amount of idiocy in these comments is astounding!
In all honesty, I get pissy about female gamers. Every gamer has to deal with crap online, just in a different context. Gamers will target you based on the prominent groups you belong to. Homosexual, then you will be targeted for that. Fat, that. Asian, that. Black, that. Nerd, that. Girls, that. Hell, I have even been targeted for being a gamer online.
I have played with many female characters online, and I rarely hear anyone target them. Yes there are an odd few, but far less than gamers that target other male gamers. If anything, females have got to be the group least targeted.
I have never attacked someone online, not just females, but anybody. However, I fully understand why people would. The gaming community is a “competitive” area. Competitive areas involve negativity when losing, most of the time in mockery or for venting. I understand this, which is why I tend to let it fly by. If I am targeted, I retaliate, as I am venting back. But nine times out of ten after we vent, and these people can be pretty harsh to me, we start getting along. We play a few custom games, say “good game” at the end, and be on our separate ways.
Most, and I say most because not all female gamers have this “You insult ‘me!?’ a female!? This community must be sexist”, can understand this. They can understand that areas involving competition are not going to be friendly, not all the time, anyway. But most gamers don’t even do this, so I don’t know why women act as if this is an epidemic. There is also a mute button. If you do not like what someone is saying, you mute them and chat with the remaining people not pestering you, like what every other game belonging to a certain group has to do.
It seems most female gamers do not want to do this, though. They want the competitive area to be rainbows and flowers followed with cuddles at the end of a game. Ok, I might be mocking there, but that’s how this feels. It reminds me of how feminists have attacked sports in schools because it is “too violent”. Something they are not even the majority of equally matching in quality in, they changed it and the majority of people that are involved and like it have to suffer from it, all because they, the minority, didn’t like it.
It is getting beyond a joke, and it is one of the reasons why I may consider the idea “just don’t let women on games”, and it irritates even myself that I come to that conclusion, but I honestly see no other option other than a way to separate the gaming community from males and females so you can only play with one group. It annoys me that males deal with this behaviour willingly and understand why it happens, and they enjoy the fact they can freely vent in gaming, but the second female gamers come in, it all has to change because they can’t handle the gaming community.
These female gamers need to realize that simply because they are now involved does not make it all about them. Everyone gets harassed, and it is mainly due to the competitive environment and venting. It should not change just because they cannot handle it what everyone else can and does have to deal with. If you cannot handle what makes the gaming community, and you want something that does not involve “competitive” behaviour, then what are you doing in a competitive environment? Doesn’t make so much sense, does it? Kind of reminds me of the buzzkill school teacher that bans dodge ball because they don’t think it is appropriate, when the class enjoys that game the most.
Women need to stop thinking with this “me, me, me” attitude. You are not the group of gamers mostly attacked, if anything, you are not even in the top three, you are harassed less than male gamers. So you need to stop acting as if simply being treated like every other gamer means that you are the only group targeted.
Here are a list of things I have had to deal with online:
- “You fucking faggot. I bet you like it up the ass, you cunt”.
- “I’m going to fuck you up the ass, you fucking faggot bitch.
- “I’m going to burn you alive you motherfucker”.
- “I’m going to find you and fucking stab you to death”.
- “I’m going to murder your family”.
Do I make a big deal about it? No, because I understand they are venting or bitching. Do I expect it to change for “me”? No.
Male gamers get just as much of these “threats”, and many times worse than what females get. Yet, women complain more than these men when told to go to the kitchen? This is why males have a problem with female gamers. You overreact to things that everyone else can deal with, and you expect everything to change for “you”, as if “you” are the only ones being attacked”.
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At this point, it is pretty clear that you are a feminist. I am not MRA, as I have not explored the group much, but I am against feminist and support the things men have to deal with nowadays. I used to be a feminist until I reached the age I started questioning everything.
You mock and insult people that are against “anti-male shaming”, and yet you are probably the same type of woman that would say the exact same about anti-woman shaming. If anything, this is exactly what you have done here. So how can you sit there and mock these people for the thing you have just done for your own side? That’s the type of reasoning that made me disband from feminism.
You claim these MRA are shitty people, but how many MRA have broken the law or human rights for their own agenda? I have seen feminists do this often to MRA or men trying to figure out more about the things they face in modern society.
For example. When MRA put up posters against male violence. It said “you wouldn’t hate blacks, would you? A decent person wouldn’t. You wouldn’t hate homosexuals, would you? A decent person wouldn’t. You wouldn’t hate women, would you? A decent person wouldn’t. You wouldn’t hate men, would you?”….Feminist swarmed the area where these posters were put up and started putting them down under the reason “it is hatred against women”….The posters that included “hatred against women is wrong”, was considered female hate. It was put on private property, which the person stated, and they continued. Some even said “You are not allowing us to have free speech by not allowing us to not let you have free speech”. Then the cops arrived, and they started to leave. So they knew they were breaking the law.
Then when there was a speech on males and what they face in today’s world was up, feminists swarmed the area and held the doors shut, not allowing people to view the speech, attacking mens free speech. They cussed and insulted anyone that was going to attend this speech, so much that the law, once again, had to get involved. When the law forced the people holding the doors shut back, these feminists shouted “this is what mens rights look like”, as if to say by not allowing them to take away human rights of men, it shows the negatives of mens rights…Sensible, right? Fortunately, a voice for men named and shamed these people that took away human rights and put them in the public online. Now anyone searching them up can see what they have done, and so future employers will know not to hire such hate filled people.
Quite frankly, I think as a feminist, you are trying to make victims were there are none just to make it seem like females suffer such a hard life.
Rant over.